The Plan for Iran....

:rolleyes: Y'know, I'm probably one of the last people to call themselves 'pro-american' (at least when it comes to foreign policy, and certain issues around things like the patriot act),
Hey bush said "Your either with me or against me!"

but I hope to god you aren't really so insular to believe that what you posted is typical of america in any way. Hyperbole like that really doesn't do any favours to the left...
Of course not, i'm far left in the USA but maybe middle of the road in europe

Give the "OMG TEH BUSHIES WILL AREST U" schtick a break already. We don't live in a police state.
Maybe or maybe not i'll just wait until/when/if we attack iran to see if i'm right
 
Hey bush said "Your either with me or against me!"

Fine, but Bush is not America. I don't think that Bush is a great (or even good) president, but his time will pass soon enough. In the meantime, America will move on, the US is not a police state, you can still say whatever you like.

Of course not, i'm far left in the USA but maybe middle of the road in europe

Wherever you plant yourself on the political map, spouting falsehoods like that doesn't do any service to your own credibility, nor anyone else that might put themselves in the same political vicinity as you...

Maybe or maybe not i'll just wait until/when/if we attack iran to see if i'm right

Read your own quote, then read the one you are responding to, then please tell me what one has to do with the other.
 
Actually some things like that have happened in the UK. Most brits were and still are dead against the Iraq war and britian's involvement in it. Well amongst other stories I have heard that an 80 year old WW2 veteran was arrested and possibly imprisoned under the terrorist act for wearing a T-Shirt that said 'Bush and Blair should be tried for war crimes' or something similar.

The patriot acts 1 & 2 could be invoked to put dissenters in gaol or worse; whether it actually has been used to do that I do not know.
 
Actually some things like that have happened in the UK. Most brits were and still are dead against the Iraq war and britian's involvement in it. Well amongst other stories I have heard that an 80 year old WW2 veteran was arrested and possibly imprisoned under the terrorist act for wearing a T-Shirt that said 'Bush and Blair should be tried for war crimes' or something similar.

The patriot acts 1 & 2 could be invoked to put dissenters in gaol or worse; whether it actually has been used to do that I do not know.
Oh wow, you heard that a man was possibly imprisoned for wearing a t-shirt in a country that isn't the US. Damning evidence, for sure.

Look, I think it's a pretty safe bet that when you have a member of the chief legislative body of a country comparing the President to Hitler that you don't live in a police state. If this were a police state, Keith would be in a ditch somewhere, not receiving a fat paycheck (Courtesy of the American taxpayers) to spout of paranoid drivel.
 
Actually some things like that have happened in the UK. Most brits were and still are dead against the Iraq war and britian's involvement in it. Well amongst other stories I have heard that an 80 year old WW2 veteran was arrested and possibly imprisoned under the terrorist act for wearing a T-Shirt that said 'Bush and Blair should be tried for war crimes' or something similar.

Do you have a source for that (dang, how did I end up being the MobBoss of my own thread! :lol: )

The patriot acts 1 & 2 could be invoked to put dissenters in gaol or worse; whether it actually has been used to do that I do not know.

There is definitely the potential for abuse within the patriot acts. Indeed, I beleive that US authorities have stepped over the line more than once using the act as a pretext. The point I want to make is that it is not applied broadly, and there are still functionning (though somewhat weaker) checks and balances in place. I'M no fan of the PA, and could even agree that it is a dangerous piece pof legislation, but a police state on the order of what george2816 described above it does not make.
 
source? Oh sorry it was a very long time ago that I read about it and I am not even sure which publication mentioned it. Probably the Daily Mail or Independant.
 
source? Oh sorry it was a very long time ago that I read about it and I am not even sure which publication mentioned it. Probably the Daily Mail or Independant.

Found it:

Apprehended for 'offensive' T-shirt

John Catt, an 80-year-old peace campaigner, was stopped by police officers as a terrorist suspect in Brighton in September - for wearing a T-shirt with anti-Blair and Bush slogans.

Mr Catt, who served in the RAF during the Second World War, was stopped, searched by police and made to sign a form confirming he had been interviewed under the 2000 Terrorism Act.

The official record of the encounter confirms that the "purpose" of the search was "terrorism" and the "grounds for intervention" were "carrying plackard and T-shirt with anti-Blair info" (sic).

Mr Catt was offered a caution by police, but refused and plans to plead not guilty at a trial due to start in January. He had travelled into Brighton from his home in Withdean, on the outskirts of the city.

"I said I was going to voice my opposition to the Iraq War. He [the policeman] said: 'We're going to give you a copy of this form.'

"People should have the right to protest non-violently. The anti-terrorism laws should not be used to stop people doing that."

10 10 10 10!

Wait a second...isn't this thread about Iran?!! Dangit!
 
Oh well done you or well done google. So it was the independant, not surprising really the daily mail makes a big song and dance about being critical of government but usually they 'pull their punches', the independant on the other hand actually manages to live up to its name at least some of the time and without all the noisy self-adulation typical of the daily mail.
 
Do you have a source for that (dang, how did I end up being the MobBoss of my own thread! :lol: )



There is definitely the potential for abuse within the patriot acts. Indeed, I beleive that US authorities have stepped over the line more than once using the act as a pretext. The point I want to make is that it is not applied broadly, and there are still functionning (though somewhat weaker) checks and balances in place. I'M no fan of the PA, and could even agree that it is a dangerous piece pof legislation, but a police state on the order of what george2816 described above it does not make.
If this is a free state as people said then why are "camps" built/being built all across the USA that are empty with staff when we have a big prison problem!

Let me see if i can find some stories about it!
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm
http://www.rense.com/general17/statebystate.htm

from last site:
INDIANA Equipped with crematoria reported to have a capacity of 3,000 people a day.

Wow the USA actually has plans to kill 3,000 people a day!
 
If this is a free state as people said then why are "camps" built/being built all across the USA that are empty with staff when we have a big prison problem!

Let me see if i can find some stories about it!

BECAUSE THEY'VE THROWN EVERY SOCIALIST, LIBERTARIAN, DEMOCRAT AND FREE-THINKER IN PRISON FOR HARD LABOUR, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AND NEO-CONSERVATIVE-FOXNEWS-WATCHING-BUSH/CHENEY RE-EDUCATION!!! YOU'VE FINALLY CRACKED THE SECRET!

Seriously though, why do you try to pin all of america's problems on the patriot act. Yes, america has a silly drug policy that is overcrowding prisons. It doesn't make it a police state!
 
BECAUSE THEY'VE THROWN EVERY SOCIALIST, LIBERTARIAN, DEMOCRAT AND FREE-THINKER IN PRISON FOR HARD LABOUR, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AND NEO-CONSERVATIVE-FOXNEWS-WATCHING-BUSH/CHENEY RE-EDUCATION!!! YOU'VE FINALLY CRACKED THE SECRET!

Seriously though, why do you try to pin all of america's problems on the patriot act. Yes, america has a silly drug policy that is overcrowding prisons. It doesn't make it a police state!
Read the links then respond!
 
If this is a free state as people said then why are "camps" built/being built all across the USA that are empty with staff when we have a big prison problem!

Let me see if i can find some stories about it!
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm
http://www.rense.com/general17/statebystate.htm

from last site:
INDIANA Equipped with crematoria reported to have a capacity of 3,000 people a day.

Wow the USA actually has plans to kill 3,000 people a day!

Oh yeah I have heard of these camps and saw some footage too, really creepy. Alex Jones was the one who spilled this story to me.
 
Read the links then respond!

My appologies, I wrote before you had them up.

Did take a peek at them, and yes, the sites do seem to say that they were for political prisoners. I think i might try to find my own links for the story, however.

in the meantime, I think we may have gotten seeeriously Off topic here!
 
Come to think of it I have heard from a business associate about some really big open air prison camp being built in Wales near where he lives. I was in the middle of heated debate with another associate when he mentioned this so I didn't really take the time to pump him for more info as I was distracted. Next time I see him i'll ask about it.

Off-topic? Well this is the off topic forum what do you expect? :lol:

But actually it is tangentially related to the thread topic. At least one probable use for these camps is to intern dissenters and protesters that would result from a really unpopular, economy crippling, likely to fail, large scale war such as a war against Iran would be. Remember all those guys in that independant article that were given trouble by the police because they protested the Iraq war? Well the police in almost every case used the 'terrorsim act' as justification. A small scale pilot for what is to come? I hope not. (Especially since I am probably on their lists already!)
 
Come to think of it I have heard from a business associate about some really big open air prison camp being built in Wales near where he lives. I was in the middle of heated debate with another associate when he mentioned this so I didn't really take the time to pump him for more info as I was distracted. Next time I see him i'll ask about it.

I'm still looking for any kind of credible source. SO far all i see is a lot of conspiracy crap...

Off-topic? Well this is the off topic forum what do you expect? :lol:

The threads are off-topic, not the posts! :nono:

But actually it is tangentially related to the thread topic. At least one probable use for these camps is to intern dissenters and protesters that would result from a really unpopular, economy crippling, likely to fail, large scale war such as a war against Iran would be. Remember all those guys in that independant article that were given trouble by the police because they protested the Iraq war? Well the police in almost every case used the 'terrorsim act' as justification.

I can't imagine what would drive the US to go ahead with a war that would be so unpopular that they actually have to prepare internment camps for all the dissenters. Sorry, I just don't buy it. And yes, I do agree that police in the US, and Britain (and even Canada) have overstepped boundaries using terrorism as an excuse, the same way that police use loitering laws to push aside the homeless. But the step from some harassment of protesters to a crematorium on the scale of Austwich is...well, a bit out there for me...

A small scale pilot for what is to come? I hope not. (Especially since I am probably on their lists already!)

:lol: Oh don't flatter yourself! You'll be fine :)
 
I'm still looking for any kind of credible source. SO far all i see is a lot of conspiracy crap...
I don't know what qualifies as a 'credible source' in your eyes, Faux news?
Time will tell I suppose.

I can't imagine what would drive the US to go ahead with a war that would be so unpopular that they actually have to prepare internment camps for all the dissenters. Sorry, I just don't buy it. And yes, I do agree that police in the US, and Britain (and even Canada) have overstepped boundaries using terrorism as an excuse, the same way that police use loitering laws to push aside the homeless. But the step from some harassment of protesters to a crematorium on the scale of Austwich is...well, a bit out there for me...
You mention auschwitz (sorry I don't know how to spell it either) and that if you think about it you have answered your question as to why the camps might appear in the US. No not for reasons of nazi style racism but well it is an old trick of empire. Actually the brits had proper nazi style death camps in africa for the purpose of imperialism and that was 1953!! ATFER WW2. Also the US used these camps in Veitnam for the local vietmanese and that was even more recent. The Italians used camps like auswitz in their attempt to occupy Libya before or during WW1. Internment Camps are as much a tool of trade for imperialists as standing armies, aggresive warring and propaganda.

:lol: Oh don't flatter yourself! You'll be fine :)

Well I hope your right.
 
Found it:

says error 500 Internal Server Error!
 
Found it:

says error 500 Internal Server Error!

works with me...

Spoiler :
Blair's Britain 2005 - where peaceful protest can be costly
Published: 10 December 2005

Arrested over demonstration at arms fair

The cases of Pennie Quinton and Kevin Gillan are due before the House of Lords next month as civil rights campaigners attempt to show that anti-terrorism laws to stop and search are being used unlawfully. Mr Gillan, 28, a postgraduate student from Sheffield, and Ms Quinton, 34, a freelance photo-journalist, were among about 140 people arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 at an arms fair at the Excel Centre in east London in 2003.

Lawyers for Liberty argued that the "draconian" powers were being used in a way that was never intended by Parliament and that they had unlawfully deterred members of the public from demonstrating peacefully. The Court of Appeal gave the police the benefit of the doubt.

Convicted over anti-corporate stunt

The self-styled George Fox Six burst into a lecture theatre at Lancaster University in September last year to protest at a corporate conference. They picked a conference attended by executives from BAE Systems, DuPont, GlaxoSmithKline and Shell to highlight what they believed were malign relationships between academic research and business.

In response to the protest, their own university insisted on pressing charges for aggravated trespass.

In October the six - two undergraduates, two postgraduates, a former student and a student from an affiliated college - were found guilty at Lancaster magistrates' court. A district judge gave each a conditional discharge and ordered them to pay £300 costs.

Detained for throwing a tea party

It started as a joke for Mark Barrett, a tour guide, and a few other protesters. Angered at the planned exclusion zone for unauthorised demonstrations around Parlia- ment Square, he went to aprotest in August.

He said: "There were various people there with placards. I said, 'Let's go and throw tea into the Thames as they did at the Boston Tea Party.' We had a bit of a laugh. Now we have a tea party protest every Sunday."

Thus was born the People of the Commons Picknickers, angered by Section 132 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.

Mr Barrett, 36, and 20 other activists were arrested. He is due in court next month. "The law is about the attempt to marginalise people's points of view," he said. "It is anti-democratic and an abuse of power."

Apprehended for 'offensive' T-shirt

John Catt, an 80-year-old peace campaigner, was stopped by police officers as a terrorist suspect in Brighton in September - for wearing a T-shirt with anti-Blair and Bush slogans.

Mr Catt, who served in the RAF during the Second World War, was stopped, searched by police and made to sign a form confirming he had been interviewed under the 2000 Terrorism Act.

The official record of the encounter confirms that the "purpose" of the search was "terrorism" and the "grounds for intervention" were "carrying plackard and T-shirt with anti-Blair info" (sic).

Mr Catt was offered a caution by police, but refused and plans to plead not guilty at a trial due to start in January. He had travelled into Brighton from his home in Withdean, on the outskirts of the city.

"I said I was going to voice my opposition to the Iraq War. He [the policeman] said: 'We're going to give you a copy of this form.'

"People should have the right to protest non-violently. The anti-terrorism laws should not be used to stop people doing that."

Threatened with jail for Iraq protest

Douglas Barker has adopted a new approach to resistance to the war, by withholding 10 per cent of his income tax in protest at Britain's involvement.

The former RAF serviceman, who is 72, owns a 200-acre estate in Wiltshire and describes himself as a lifelong socialist who was a firm supporter of Tony Blair until the war. On Wednesday, he was threatened with jail if he continued to refuse to pay the £1,142.58 the Inland Revenue says he owes. When completing his tax return for the second half of this year, Mr Barker, 72, estimated that 10 per cent of all government expenditure went on the military. He said: "I came to the conclusion that by paying this, I was violating my conscience, because I felt it would have been used illegally to kill people in a sovereign state.

"If I have to go to jail, I will go to jail."

Held for shouting 'nonsense' at Jack Straw

Walter Wolfgang, 82, a Labour party member for 57 years, became a cause célèbre after he was bundled out of the Labour Party conference hall in Brighton in September.

His offence was to shout "nonsense" as Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, defended Britain's role in Iraq.

He was later stopped under anti-terrorist powers as he tried to re-enter the hall. The heavy-handed treatment of Mr Wolfgang revived criticism of the "control freakery" associated with Labour.

Mr Wolfgang fled Nazi Germany as a teenager for Britain. He said: "I shouted out 'nonsense'. That's all I said. Then these two toughies came round and wanted to manhandle me out ... Physically, I am not too well, so I said I would follow them."

The over-reaction by conference stewards backfired and turned into a public relations disaster for the party. The anti-terror law used to stop Mr Wolfgang was Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000. It is supposed to be deployed against suspected terrorists, not protesters.

Convicted for reading the names of 97 war dead

Maya Evans, 25, this week became the first person to be convicted under the new laws banning demonstrations near Parliament. She was given a conditional discharge and ordered to pay £100 in costs after being found guilty of breaching Section 132 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005. Her "serious" crime was to stand by the Cenotaph, close to Downing Street, reading aloud the names of the 97 British soldiers who have died in Iraq.

Ms Evans, a part-time vegan chef from Hastings, east Sussex, was considered such a threat that two police sergeants and 12 constables in two minibuses were sent to arrest her.

Following her conviction, which saddles her with a criminal record, she said: "I just think it's a shame that you cannot voice your freedom of speech. It sends out a message that you will be arrested for remembering the dead."
 
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