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The plight of convicted felons.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Immortal Ace, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Immortal Ace

    Immortal Ace Prince

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    As I'm looking for jobs to apply to for better pay I sat around and pondered about the question, 'In the past 5 years, have you ever been convicted of a felony...'

    Truth is, if you answer yes your application will be in the trash bin. If you have been convicted and you answer no you'll probably get the job; then you'll get fired a few months later once they find out even though you've been a stand out employee who has won an employee of the month award twice. That actually happened to my good friend.

    Worst part is, getting a felony conviction is pretty damn easy in the United States. Above, I mentioned my friend's conviction. I was actually there. We were in Orlando and got pulled over because of what the Orange County sheriffs said was a cracked windshield (my ass, it was four Hispanics in a car with rims at 2:30am is the reason).

    My friend, Elvis, said 'man, they can't do ****, we haven't done anything' to which one of the officers replied 'Yeah? We can't do anything?' and actually started beating on him. Out of reaction he swung back.

    Felony Conviction for Batter on a Law Enforcement Officer.

    Or I can give you a story of what happened to me. Fortunately, charges were dropped but the reality was that I could have had my life destroyed at the ripe young age of 22. I was attacked in the park and out of reaction I decided to push back with my right hand. My right hand happened to land on my attacker's throat. After Osceola county sheriff arrived and questioned people guess what? I get arrested for Felony Battery by Strangulation. Bull**** ramped up charge which was fortunately dropped.

    Although my record is, fortunately, clean I cannot help but to feel sorry for all those with felony convictions looking for a job. Either they were screwed over which does happen and if you say otherwise you're too naive or blindly believe everything the police and our 'justice' system says or you really did mess up but served your time and became a better man for it. Either way, society will never give you a second chance except out of extraordinary circumstances.

    Now, I know Hawaii and Massachusetts are barred from asking about convictions on applications but what protection are given to convicted felons for a truly second chance without discrimination in employment or anything else in life?

    Moderator Action: Watch your language, please.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  2. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    If you cant do the time, dont do the crime.

    Also, I would say lying about being a felon would probably make it worse as well. Because these days its easier and cheaper to do a back ground records check than ever before. Lying about it and getting caught is going to be immensely worse than being truthful about it and not getting the job.

    Anyway, wouldnt you feel better if you were honest about it and found an employer willing to give a felon a second chance?
     
  3. Tabster

    Tabster Prince

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    If I was unemployed, I might lie as it could still mean 2-3 months pay before being found out, but if you have already got a job and you just want more pay, maybe it's not worth the risk.
     
  4. Immortal Ace

    Immortal Ace Prince

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    That's the point. They did the time. That's why they're looking for work...because...they're out of prison....and served their time...do you see where I'm going with this or are we gonna spit out asinine rhetoric comments all day?


    I doubt they care when they cannot pay their bills, feed themselves, etc. Or would you rather them mug you to feed themselves and going right back to prison on your tax dollars instead of being given a chance to be a productive member of society?
     
  5. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    My sister lost her wallet a couple years ago. She filed a police report in hopes that it could be found.

    Fast forward to a year or two later. She's applying for a job and needs to get a police/criminal check (or whatever it's called) done as a part of the application process. Long story short - the fact that she filed a police report about the wallet comes up in the criminal check.. but it doesn't say what it is. So the employer assumes she raped and killed a young girl in 1990, or whatever. This leads to all sorts of other BS.

    That is all I have to contribute to this thread. Except that your friend is a dumbass for punching a cop.
     
  6. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    I've told this story before in the forum, but I think it is quite germane to this thread so I'm going to repeat it.

    One of my best friends was travelling to my apartment for a New Years Eve party in Manhattan when she came across two transit cops rousting a drunk on the subway. They allowed a police dog to continually lunge at him while they struck him with their batons, even though he was not fighting back. He was just cowering and trying to protect himself with his arms around his face. After watching for a few minutes, she decided to get their badge numbers and report them for their conduct.

    She made the mistake of tapping one of them on his arm to get his attention and then asked him for his badge number so she could file a complaint. She was subsequently arrested for battery of a Law Enforcement Officer which is indeed a felony.

    Fortunately, being affluent and white, she retained an excellent attorney who not only got the bogus charges dismissed, she also got a $25K settlement from the city for false arrest and harassment.

    I would hire people who have felonies on their record depending on the circumstances.

    You also didn't mention another problem. Most people won't even rent to you anymore without a criminal background check. I bet the vast majority of them wouldn't consider the actual circumstances before rejecting your application.
     
  7. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Something around two thirds of them just go back to jail.
     
  8. tycoonist

    tycoonist Deity

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    I think it's fairly self-evident that the cops are asses in 90% of all cases. but still, hitting one is just as moronic.

    Yeah. i feel the plight of the felon. not only the jobs thing, but they are also disenfranchised, and i know from first hand experience how easy it is to get arrested for something totally trivial and something which poses no danger or threat to anyone.
     
  9. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Doing so is fraud. To add some anecdotal evidence, in keeping with the spirit of the thread, my aunt, who hires people for the company she works for, is facing such a situation; being pretty much obliged to press fraud charges on someone who got a job but lied about a drink driving conviction. Nasty circle/cycle.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    "The time", apparently, being decided by private employers, and not by the justice system? :huh:
     
  11. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Small wonder if they can't find jobs as a result of their first conviction. And what about those who don't go back to prison? Do you think it is fair they have great difficulty getting jobs, finding places to live, and are even denied educational opportunities as a result?

    And what about Nevada where the recividism rate is less than 30%? Should those ex-felons be able to lead their lives in a reasonably regular manner? At what level of recidivism does this change occur?

    Ironically, the recividism rate for those who do find decent jobs is typically quite low.
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    What the OP is looking for is called 'a pardon'. Pardons are quite worth getting, in Canada.

    One manager I talked to about criminal records said that he'd understand why someone would lie on an application form to get a job. But he'll fire someone after he finds out they lied. The safest thing to do would be to 'come clean' about the criminal record after receiving the job. That way the manager has some sunk cost in you, but also doesn't think you're a liar.

    And until I've done all the time for all the felonies I've committed (but not been caught for) I don't judge too harshly. I realise that sometimes it's just about not getting caught or just about getting a sympathetic cop that can make all the difference. Most people have committed crimes, after that, it's just whether you're "in" the legal system, or not.
     
  13. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Discriminating against former felons should be against the law.
     
  14. illram

    illram Deity

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    Get it expunged.
     
  15. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    This guy was convicted of 3 felonies, yet seemed to pull himself up by his bootstraps alright:

     
  16. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Ah...thats merely them paying their restitution back to society....the actual personal COST of their crime can have much further reaching implications. Surely you understand this, and that was the context of my comment. Being a felon has lifelong implications and effects much longer than simply the time served in prison. And it should.

    Ultimately, its up to the employer to decide their own risk and liability in hiring a felon. And an employer shouldnt be forced to hire one or seen as bad for not hiring one. They didnt screw up their life...the felon did. Wouldnt an employer be absolutely right in being concerned and probably not hiring a felon convicted of stealing from a previous employer for example? Would you hire an accountant convicted of felony fraud? Trust such a person to do your book keeping for you?

    Some few might. Most wouldnt. And with good reason.

    Perhaps they should have thought of that prior to breaking the law? Few actually think about the ramifications of getting caught and going to prison, dont they? Until its too late that is.

    See above. Would you hire a formally convicted arsonist as a janitor full knowing he might have access to flamables/chemicals? Why should private employers not be concerned of hiring someone who has a character defect on record as opposed to someone who has no criminal record?

    Feel free to hire as many as you desire. The rest of us may want to actually keep our goods and money safe however, so may apply a little more judgement in determining how well said felon is 'reformed'....or not.
     
  17. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    If we pass a law that says all felons are to be beaten daily after getting out of prison are they still responsible for their situation?
     
  18. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Well, aside from the simple fact such a law would be unconstitutional......

    How can felons NOT be responsible for their situation? Were they not convicted and found guilty of a crime they committed (the assumption there being the conviction wasnt in error). How are they not responsible for a situation they themselves created?
     
  19. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    It was a hypothetical.

    Because other people are the ones doing this to them?
     
  20. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Sure they are responsible for the situation they created, but once they have fulfilled the sentence set out by the judge then it is considered they have repayed society.

    I remember from my criminology class that after spending a long time in prison, a signifigant portion of felons want to return to it simply because they had a pattern for their life. Having a job can definitatly help with that. A person consistantly having nothing to do is a signifigant cause of misdemenors, or even felonies. How often is it that something gets vandalized because some people were simply looking for something to do?
    A person out of prison already feels alienated and cut off from society. Further adding to that sense isn't going to help them. Rather, it will make them feel like they have nothing to lose and feel less of an incentive of staying clean.
     

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