The POTUS decides to be a chicken, pulls out of Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by caketastydelish, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Not quite that simple.
    The Afghan government was captured by a Communist faction before the Soviet Union went in.
    Some dude wrote the Koran applies to lots of countries, most of which we don't invade, some we even treat as trusted allies.
     
  2. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    The answer is probably both.
    On a propaganda front, if I was in charge of the Taliban I would try and keep the scenes of airport chaos going for as long as possible. It is a scene of humiliation for both the United States and the supporters of the Afghan government. Taliban also clearly wants to get the international community to accept their control of Afghanistan - something that is very hard to do if the only stories coming out are if they want to butcher all who opposed them.
    On the other hard, there are some solid indications that the Taliban won't return to the 1990s. For one, they clearly came to some sort of agreement with traditionally anti-Taliban tribes and forces in the north. Second, I believe it was in an Atlantic article, but the Taliban of 2021 has incorporated a lot of more mainline Islamists into its leadership. While still religious hardliners, they are more of an Iranian 'Islamic Republic' bent in contrast to the traditional Taliban.

    All we really know is the Taliban spokesperson/leader is saying 'the right things', so at least somebody in the Taliban leadership understands the importance of international opinion. Plus, if they want to keep international aid money flowing, they need to keep the head-chopping on the down-low.
     
  3. haroon

    haroon Deity

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    According to my source, this is taken from Afghan TV station Shamshad Network, school are open for girls. Finger cross.
    Spoiler :





     
  4. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    It wasn't firmly pro-communist back then IIRC, though USSR was making investments in country's infrastructure long before war started.
    For example, Naghlu hydro plant and Salang tunnel were built by USSR in 60-70s.

    This picture is allegedly from 70-s, but it could be from 80-s as well.


    In our news, ambassador in Afghanistan confirmed that school for girls (near the embassy) is still open.
     
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  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    And it's not just whatever happen in the 1980s. After the 2001 invasion the US sidelined a lot of locals, people who were actually afghans with experience of government, because they're been connected with, educated by, the old communist government. Instead the US brought in its pet cadres, the best example of which is Ghani, who had hanged around Washington for decades. The guy was first a "journalist" asset working putting out anti-soviet pieces in the US during the 1980s, then a banker in that tool to control the third world, the World Bank, and finally picked to the puppet job in Kabul. My guess is that government was so detached from the country because it had too many other people like that instead of local power brokers.
     
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  6. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    While religious freedoms were much better before the Taliban, the photos maybe deceptive as they mostly only focused on a small rich portion of the capital. Which dosnt really reflect the country as a whole
     
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  7. r16

    r16 not deity

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    once again Qatar running the show . With full British experience in what needs to be shown . Saudis have lost some standing in Yemen , Emirates doubted with their less than stellar conduct against -even- New Turkey . Accordingly we have the polite jihadi . And of course it was the North , and Dostum , who had "held" Kabil after the Soviets left before he turned into an lslamist , of sorts . The same when "holding" Kabil against the actual Taliban , before turning into an lslamist again . Third time ? Much the same . Only trouble it happened in a week at tops , instead of months . Qatar loves the chance though , the illusion of running the world while it is still a pawn of London .
     
  8. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    More footage of Northern Alliance forces rallying.



    Looks like they will fight for themselves not the government.
     
  9. Drakle

    Drakle Emperor

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    The Taliban now has the US biometric tools, it can use to ID people

    https://theintercept.com/2021/08/17/afghanistan-taliban-military-biometrics/

    Still, officially they gave an amnesty, but they could possibly hunt down a lot of people.


    Well writing government MPs might have some impact, depending on who your representative is.

    There are also various charities, including donating airline miles in addition to the many usual cash options.

    But the vast majority, are just going to have to deal with what looks like an Iran style regime in Afghanistan.

    Upper-class women in Kabul doesn't really speak to the experience of the majority of Afghan women.


    Also more open American admiration for the Taliban.







    Guess it took them a while to register that their Christian Dominionism has almost no practical difference with fundamentalist Islam.
     
  10. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish Deity

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    The corruption sounds like something that easily could have been prevented. Complete mismanagement by NATO for not recognizing it and dealing with it. Their funding that was supposed to go to the Afghan army went to their "President" instead and yet they apparently did nothing to fix the situation.
     
  11. Drakle

    Drakle Emperor

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    The problem is that whenever they did try and tackle corruption, the Afghan leadership would raise a cry, and the US favoured immediate military interests, over waging a time-consuming fight with them. Because even the lowest petty corruption, of police stopping people to demand money, to augment their tiny wages, would pass up the chain to the nationwide leaders. And the military stressed getting in good with local leadership, instead of confronting them. This podcast talks about this, with someone who went over there. But she is wrong right at the end about US military involvement being low cost, which is only a factor because of the US-Taliban peace deal.

    The Afghan war was impaired immediately by the warlords being brought wholesale into the fold, the US letting the Airlift of Evil and others scamper, and then very quick refocus to Iraq, while all along holding maximalist positions about driving the Taliban out
     
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  12. migalhone

    migalhone Monarch wannabe

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    To me this just reads as shameless, opportunistic bashing.

    Not that i'm here to be anyone's lawyer, but corruption is incredibly hard to deal with effectively. In hindsight the USA should have been more careful about who they installed as government, and how much they related and cared about the common Afghan people.
     
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  13. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Of whom? The Taliban, fesesbook or Christmas man?
     
  14. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Because it absolutely was not something that was as easy to prevent as you're saying.
     
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  15. migalhone

    migalhone Monarch wannabe

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    I'm talking about the ones saying Taliban aren't worried about Covid, or rainbow flags, as well as the Don Jr tweet. Should not have used the verb "Bashing". To me the ones talking about Covid and rainbow flags are using the Talibans to push their misguided view, and the Don Jr tweet seems to show bad faith.

    EDIT: I'm not expressing myself clearly sorry about this. Above all it seems people of all quadrants are rushing to conclusions, as no one outside Afghanistan really knows what's going on.
     
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  16. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    I obviously wasn't trying to show experience of majority of Afghan women with one picture.
     
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  17. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Various reports of protests about the Afghan/Taliban flag:

    Deadly protests reported in Jalalabad over Afghan flag

    At least two people have been reportedly killed and 12 other wounded after shots fired at protest against removal of Afghan flag by Taliban in the eastern city of Jalalabad.
    Al Jazeera’s Rob McBride, reporting from Kabul, said that “a fairly sizable part” of Jalalabad’s residents were resisting the replacement of Afghanistan’s national flag in the city by the Taliban banner.


    From reddit:

    Teens and kids with flags taunt Taliban fighters on a humveea, warning shots fired by Taliban

    This wa in Khost, South east was mostly pro government and stronger tribal identities than other places.

    Cannot imbed reddit videos, you will have to go there.
    Brave afghan civillians taking down taliban flag and waving the afghan flag

    Kama district, Nangarhar province

    ditto.​
     
  18. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Is USA going to remove status of major non-NATO ally from Afghanistan?
    Ukraine wanted to request same status next week, their president is going to visit US and meet with Biden.
    Now they may change their mind about status though... or US may change their mind about visit.
     
  19. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    That video I posted early had a fashion show in Kabul 1969.
     
  20. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Tories: People queueing at the airport are cowards, they should be leading the resistance:

    Tory MP Sir Desmond Swayne:

    Were the government of this kingdom to be overthrown by a wicked and brutal regime, I venture that he would want a leading role in the resistance, he wouldn’t be queuing at the airport would he?​
     

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