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The power of the keshik.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by kensington888, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. kensington888

    kensington888 Warlord

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    played genghis khan and found their UU was excellent.i had them by 1000bc and was able to take out as many civs as possible until i was expanding to quickly.i had a new game were i done the same but i razed alot of cities.seems like a good UU.anyone think the same ?
     
  2. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    War chariots of Egypt >>> Keshiks.

    Reasons:

    • Cheaper
    • Immunity to first strikes, so archers are used to have and partially kills protective trait.
    • Far earlier than HBR and more useful on levels levels like lower than immortal.
    • Egypt is known to only need Animal Husbandry and already you are settled to conquer once horses are found as Wheel is already known and Agriculture helps for food resources.
    • Keshiks are not immune to first strikes but the super mobility helps to make this up.
     
  3. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    It's mainly that Egypt > Mongolia thou.
    1 better starting tech, and agressive never helps much while both Egypt leaders have good traits.
    Kublai with all these goodies would be way more scary than WCs imo :)
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Keshiks have a first strike of their own though, so unless the archers are protective the immunity is rarely a factor, and having one is an advantage vs melee.

    Obviously WC are better, but they're the #2 UU in the game behind the quecha most likely so that's not saying much. Keshiks are actually really good (top 10 UU, maybe top 5 or just outside), they're just attached to some unfortunate starting techs + non-ideal traits.
     
  5. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Keshiks - additional experience from gers, war chariots - exp only from barracks. Mongolian starting techs also favor HBR (it is 3 techs away). War chariots are better, as you can get additional experience on early barbs, but ignorring terrain is for me more valuable (there is still a lot of forest if you want early rush)

    - Keshik is one of my favourite UU (my personal top5),
     
  6. Riflin'Joe

    Riflin'Joe Prince

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    The question is how to use them with these rather sub-par leaders without tanking the economy, especially off just an average start.
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    100's of :gold: from capturing cities, and a few techs for peace before declaring 10 turns later for the kill :devil:.
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    How does this work TMIT, getting Techs for peace? I've often beat Civs down to 1 wounded Archer in 1 city, but I never got any tech from a peace-treaty, not even crappy HBR while I was short before Music.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Slower games speeds make techs weighted stupidly from war since it doesn't scale properly.

    If you play on normal and spank say 4 cities off of toku in the BC he will trade you alpha + sailing for example.

    IIRC AI value :science: and :gold: 1:1 but I'm pretty sure war success doesn't scale on speed properly, so unless you play quick or normal it's really hard to get anything too meaningful.

    Of course, on those slower speeds keshiks are absolutely ridiculous, just like any other strong early rush UU. They're just not as good as war chariots. I rate them around praetorian level.
     
  10. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Indeed. That's quite a good question. One aspect of the game almost nobody quantify...war tribute.

    I'm noting this in my scrapbook for future studies. ;)

    EDIT: War tributes are proportional to the power rate and war successes. Simply put. I think war period is also accounted ("This war spoils our relationship!" some sort of after effects).
     
  11. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Can someone tell me how to make power rate values even more precise? Having more than 0.3 or 0.8 and something like 0.6154 as a value for instance.
     
  12. King Kalmah

    King Kalmah Magyar Madness

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    I really hate how lazy they were when they put in Marathon...don't get me wrong I love Epic/Marathon,but couldn't they have atleast tried to scale it better?

    Well the more I learn about marathon the more I feel like I'm cheating...guess one day I'll have to play normal and not get blown away at how fast it goes...what is a normal game of civ anyway...one hour or two?

    I play games that take weeks....:lol:
     
  13. digitalcraft

    digitalcraft Warlord

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    Yeah I have two games I finished on marathon and they're literally ten times the final score of a normal game. XD
     
  14. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    In BAT it's under the BUG options screen, scoreboard, ratio decimal places.
     
  15. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Keshiks are good to go through the forest and hills that are in the outskirts of their cities which is why they're so effective with a stack.
     
  16. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    Opposing perspectives are for the peanut gallery (that's what we are here for or at least TMIT)! Still, listing the strengths of one unit and the weaknesses of the other makes for a lopsided argument.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I can't really oppose that WC > Keshik.

    However the first strike thing is a junk argument against keshiks, which can get immunity with flanking II but generally just use their own first strike to cancel archer first strikes anyway :).

    Keshiks are behind a first strike chance vs protective and absolutely nothing against non-pro archers...and have a clear advantage vs all other unit classes over HA. Ignoring all terrain costs is absolutely ridiculous and should be abused thoroughly.

    After quecha, war chariot, and immortals, what UU is consistently stronger than the keshik? You can make a case for skirmishers (esp in MP), MAYBE a case for conq, maybe. What else? Praetorians aren't better, though they have better leader options. Keshiks are really, really good.
     
  18. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    Yeps..getting 1 first strike > immunity.
    I refuse rating them lower than WCs or Immortals on truly random and unknown maps ;)
    If horsies are semi-far away, setting up HAs can easily be more efficient and Keshiks are good enuf for making that little difference under rough conditions.
     
  19. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    Both are excellent UUs.
    The funny thing is, that AGG Impis will own both in the field and defending their cities.
    rock-paper-scissors.
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Unfortunately, Impi attack ability is very limited which is why they're not on the same tier.
     

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