the profanity problem

[ybbor]

Yes although normal posters can as well as long as they do it for a valid reason...

well, there is no enforced 10-char rule, it's automaticly enforced via auto-censor, if it isn't pointless spam it will stay. a way to get around the auot-cendor rule is shown below. if it wasn't spam a mod wouldn't delete it

i agree

 

[Hitro]

I really don't see how why you people think its so gosh darned difficult to stay within these fairly basic guidelines.

This is utterly ridiculous.

So we may still swear, just not use certain words?

The intend is still the same, unless of course "gosh darned" is New Zealand dialect for "very".

By the way, is "god forsaken" acceptable? Or is god a swear word now?

In any way I surely hope people will from now on get banned for calling others "Commies" unless those really see themselves as Communists. Oh, please also ban people not using umlauts (umlaute, in fact) when using German words, I find that very offensive.

 

[carlosMM]

I think he was making a joke.

They say "feck" on the Father Ted precisely because they can't swear...
Moderator Action: warned, vulgarity
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

eh, don't you mods realize this is a tiny lil' bit absurd?

this thread is here to DISCUSS the PROBLEM! Can#t do that if one can't name the issue!

A poster makes a contribution ON TOPIC, which, alas, must in this case infolve the swear word in question - after all, there is no way to NOT write 'feck' here, as saying 'the f-word with the vowel changed' doesn't really clarify the issue. Then that poster gets warned for vulgarity!

So, how should anarres post the fact that in Father Ted they use 'feck', not the f-word precisely as a way to circumvent the use of the f-word while still conveying the meaning?
If you are true to your above use of the mod powers, you must also warn for the use of f-word, or **** (I typed *s), or f*ck, or whatever else can be used to avoid the use of the real swear word. So, can we discuss ways to deal with this issue if we can't name it?

no! we can't!

so please come off it and at least allow a NORMAL, CIVILIZED discussion in THIS thread! PLEAAASE!

 

[anarres]

I guess it is hard for mods to see where civilised discussion ends and mod-baiting begins.

I PM'd Lefty to apologise since he obviously thought I was mod-baiting and not trying to add to the discussion, but I guess you are better off *not* commenting on it since that can be construed as questioning a mod's actions.

FWIW, Father Ted is shown IN THE DAYTIME, and on national TV to many millions of people...

 

[carlosMM]

I guess it is hard for mods to see where civilised discussion ends and mod-baiting begins.

I PM'd Lefty to apologise since he obviously thought I was mod-baiting and not trying to add to the discussion, but I guess you are better off *not* commenting on it since that can be construed as questioning a mod's actions.

FWIW, Father Ted is shown IN THE DAYTIME, and on national TV to many millions of people...

Yes I *am* questioning a mods action - and I have a good and I believe valid reason not to do it in a PM. Moderator Action: wrong on that count, no good reason not to PM it, regardless of what a salty old foul mouthed wargamer like me understands about the subject matter, warned for not having the minimal paitience to follow procedure
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889 I bet lefty understands:

THIS is the thread to discuss the profanity problem and the way profanity is treated on this foum. So THIS is the thread to discuss the way mods deal with it.

Lefty, you know I am not baiting or trying to undermine you - but we should be allowed to discuss this topic freely, as long as it stays civilized!

Please?

 

[Hitro]

I think the whole "modding" thing completely loses focus.

What is supposed to be the point of moderators in a forum? Isn't it to ensure that people can have a civilized discussion and that the forum isn't overtaken by people who don't want to participate in any more or less constructive way but simply annoy others?

It should most certainly not be to diminish the enjoyment "serious" users get out of it. Still for quite some time already people post an awful lot of things where they enter references either like "please don't ban me", "can I say this?" or like "ban him", "watch out for the mods" etc..
Although it has some real-life satirical value (some people, especially the younger ones, seem to really fear being "moderated") it is also very annoying. Especially so as it doesn't mean there is more of a "crackdown" on real flaming and trolling.
And thanks to this demigod like status the mods seem to have amoung a not-to-small group of posters they can't even really affort to post much themselves, at least nothing remotely controversial.

I say let's go back to banning the flamers and trolls and leave the rest alone, including yourself.

Oh, and kill all that spam.

 

[Stapel]

I have been holding my comments on moderating for 18 months now, so here it coems :

Several words prohibited on this forum are perfectly normal in Holland on day time TV, among kids, at schools, etc.

The term 'family-friendly', imho, is just another political correct word, which has hardly anything to do with families. I realise it comes from another side of the Atlantic,with another culture, but I do disagree with its superfluous and ridiculous meaning.

The use of certain words, imho, cannot possibly harm the quality of this forum. It is always in the way they are used.

In my view, about 80-90% of all actions by moderators are superfluous. Whether it is moving, warning or altering. It nearly almost annoys me. There are, of course, things that clearly need moderating, altering or removal. I do not question that.

But generally, imho, the profanity problem is only a problem because people think of it as a problem.

I do believe this forum will gain quality by moderation on the moderating!

 

[Knight-Dragon]

And hey, aren't you from Singapore? Then you'd be used to extremely strict decency laws

Repeat after me.

KD. Is. Not. From. Singapore.

Repeat ten times.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I find this thread distressing. Mods wasted so much of their time moderating and reviewing posts that they can't get to post very much; and now this window of opportunity for posters to launch attacks on mods, and for mods needing to come out to waste more time defending themselves.

I also find it amusing that posters who don't have access to all the mod info flowing in fr all parts of the forums seem to know better than mods and TF what is good for the forums.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Still for quite some time already people post an awful lot of things where they enter references either like "please don't ban me", "can I say this?" or like "ban him", "watch out for the mods" etc..

I didn't see any reported - report them when you see them, if you want them actioned.

If you're expecting mods to go everywhere and read everything and review every single word posted... you're expecting too much of volunteers...

And thanks to this demigod like status the mods seem to have amoung a not-to-small group of posters they can't even really affort to post much themselves, at least nothing remotely controversial.

As had been for the past 3 years, I post mostly only in History, Site Feedback and All Other Games.

I've never bothered much with OT. I don't see why I shld start now.

 

[Hitro]

EDIT: I posted this before I saw your reply to me in particular. Will adress that below.

I find this thread distressing. Mods wasted so much of their time moderating and reviewing posts that they can't get to post very much; and now this window of opportunity for posters to launch attacks on mods, and for mods needing to come out to waste more time defending themselves.

If you would have actually read my post you might have seen that I think this is part of the problem. In former times the mods could still participate in the forums as well, simply because pretty much everyone exept a small minority of what you can call troublemakers if you like knew how to deal with others without offending them too much.

You might have noticed that the rules and regulations have always been extended, not reduced. So this result is only logical.

And the point still stands, the rolleyes at the end of that quote is to me as much offensive as if you would have added one of those awful words to it. Probably more, as such a word would simply express your anger, which you shouldn't have to deny, while the second is more patronizing and thus more offensive.

I also find it amusing that posters who don't have access to all the mod info flowing in fr all parts of the forums seem to know better than mods and TF what is good for the forums.

We are part of the forums, we see how they develop, over the years we've seen different ways of doing it and different outcomes. I find it amusing that you think we're not capable of having an opinion on it.

 

[carlosMM]

I find this thread distressing. Mods wasted so much of their time moderating and reviewing posts that they can't get to post very much; and now this window of opportunity for posters to launch attacks on mods, and for mods needing to come out to waste more time defending themselves.

ah, do you really feel we posters in this here thread want to
- attack you?
- force you to 'come out' (are you hiding?) and defend yourselves?

There is no intent whatsoever to 'attack' any mod! Everybody makes mistakes, so even if someone here says something along these lines (as I did in my last posts) that is only meant as a helpful hint (maybe rethink the point and make things better in the future) but in no way anything meant to either keep your from work or degrade your authority or so!
If came came across as if an attack was my intention I am truely sorry!

I also find it amusing that posters who don't have access to all the mod info flowing in fr all parts of the forums seem to know better than mods and TF what is good for the forums.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but that I can.
And I personally find that a discussion on how profanity is being handled is severly restricted in its scope and ability to produce worthwhile results if the disussion is over-moderated to the point of important points not being made! I think anybody who participates in a discussion can see that!

So, basically, either the entire discussion is good (then allow it to proceed on purpose (that is with posts on topic and helpful) or it is not - then why wasn't it closed already long ago?

I do not think the posters in this thread are in the majority people who want to use this thread to post a profanity just becasue this is the place where they might get by with it. Most of us are over 13 years old. Rather, we want to get a feel for how the mods and TF want to handle this, and maybe HELP you find a way to handle it smartly and effectively. TFs post clarifying that the 3day bans are a temporary measure e.g. was in the first part - we simply wanted to know and we got to know. Anarres post on the Father Ted thing is a helpful hint on how society as a whole handles part of the problem - squarely in the second category.

I hope I clarified (at least *my*) intentions a bit.

 

[Hitro]

I didn't see any reported - report them when you see them, if you want them actioned.

If you're expecting mods to go everywhere and read everything and review every single word posted... you're expecting too much of volunteers...

Well, of course, but there are two things to this:

1. I personally never reported anyone for anything (or once maybe, can't remember). I personally hate that.

2. Even if I would, which certainly applies to others, I would not have done it because I don't think it is worth a report. But it should be. Basically it is comparable with demanding a yellow card for an opposing player in football. That should be left to the referee, i.e. the moderator. So if you say, announce or whatever that these things shouldn't be done I guess people would report it.

It would be consequent, but is it really the way to go? Restricting everything and anything? You can also be consequent on a generally lower level of restrictions.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I have been holding my comments on moderating for 18 months now, so here it coems

Why, it must have been painful for you...

Several words prohibited on this forum are perfectly normal in Holland on day time TV, among kids, at schools, etc.

The term 'family-friendly', imho, is just another political correct word, which has hardly anything to do with families. I realise it comes from another side of the Atlantic,with another culture, but I do disagree with its superfluous and ridiculous meaning.

The use of certain words, imho, cannot possibly harm the quality of this forum. It is always in the way they are used.

The world is not Holland, and Holland is not the world. TF wishes no profanity (or at a manageable level) and we mods enforce his wishes. As humanly possible.

In my view, about 80-90% of all actions by moderators are superfluous. Whether it is moving, warning or altering. It nearly almost annoys me.

Unfortunately, we have posters who simply cannot moderate themselves when posting. Hence the warnings (or more).

In all my years here, I only got 1 warning (for spamming IIRC), and that was years ago. I'm sure anybody can manage the same, if they but try...

I do believe this forum will gain quality by moderation on the moderating!

So do I!

 

[Hitro]

I do not think the posters in this thread are in the majority people who want to use this thread to post a profanity just becasue this is the place where they might get by with it. Most of us are over 13 years old. Rather, we want to get a feel for how the mods and TF want to handle this, and maybe HELP you find a way to handle it smartly and effectively. TFs post clarifying that the 3day bans are a temporary measure e.g. was in the first part - we simply wanted to know and we got to know. Anarres post on the Father Ted thing is a helpful hint on how society as a whole handles part of the problem - squarely in the second category.

Very well said.

Of course the intention (mine, at least, probably also that of most others) is not to attack anyone or his way of realizing the rules. It is a general discussion about the rules on this site, i.e. feedback on them.
A couple of people think it is going too far, which is not an attack on anyone, also not TF for certain, but simply a different opinion given for people to consider.

Basically the point is to say that while you might gain something from it (which you might indeed see more than I do) you will also lose something from it, which I may at least see as well.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Well, of course, but there are two things to this:

1. I personally never reported anyone for anything (or once maybe, can't remember). I personally hate that.

If you want action, and you don't want to help the mods by reporting it...

2. Even if I would, which certainly applies to others, I would not have done it because I don't think it is worth a report. But it should be. Basically it is comparable with demanding a yellow card for an opposing player in football. That should be left to the referee, i.e. the moderator. So if you say, announce or whatever that these things shouldn't be done I guess people would report it.

At the end of the day, mods don't have all day to review every thread and seek out problem posts. Mods have jobs, lives and families and want to post too.

If you've a problem with the forums, bring it to us. Otherwise, stop beating it.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

ah, do you really feel we posters in this here thread want to
- attack you?
- force you to 'come out' (are you hiding?) and defend yourselves?

There is no intent whatsoever to 'attack' any mod! Everybody makes mistakes, so even if someone here says something along these lines (as I did in my last posts) that is only meant as a helpful hint (maybe rethink the point and make things better in the future) but in no way anything meant to either keep your from work or degrade your authority or so!
If came came across as if an attack was my intention I am truely sorry!

Ok, but I find your original post rather confrontational to say the least...

Apologies on my part too.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but that I can.
And I personally find that a discussion on how profanity is being handled is severly restricted in its scope and ability to produce worthwhile results if the disussion is over-moderated to the point of important points not being made! I think anybody who participates in a discussion can see that!

So, basically, either the entire discussion is good (then allow it to proceed on purpose (that is with posts on topic and helpful) or it is not - then why wasn't it closed already long ago?

I do not think the posters in this thread are in the majority people who want to use this thread to post a profanity just becasue this is the place where they might get by with it. Most of us are over 13 years old. Rather, we want to get a feel for how the mods and TF want to handle this, and maybe HELP you find a way to handle it smartly and effectively. TFs post clarifying that the 3day bans are a temporary measure e.g. was in the first part - we simply wanted to know and we got to know. Anarres post on the Father Ted thing is a helpful hint on how society as a whole handles part of the problem - squarely in the second category.

I hope I clarified (at least *my*) intentions a bit.

Point taken.

At the end of the day, you'll have to merely convince TF and us mods will carry out his action.

Or alternatively convince a group of mods (one is a bit light, unless he or she can be pretty influential), to carry your POVs into Staff, where the plans are conceptualized and executed.

Whichever works.

 

[Tomoyo]

KD. Is. Not. From. Singapore.

Is there any reason that I do not know of that you refered to yourself as Knight-Dragon?

I do distinctly remember you having Singapore as your location, and you have great knowledge about the history of Singapore. I must conclude that, if you are not from Singapore, you live there.

 

[carlosMM]

The world is not Holland, and Holland is not the world. TF wishes no profanity (or at a manageable level) and we mods enforce his wishes. As humanly possible.

but CFC is an international forum and Holland is part of it. Or are only Americans allowed to speak? last time I check - no!

Unfortunately, we have posters who simply cannot moderate themselves when posting. Hence the warnings (or more).

Unfortunately, we have moderatiors who - so feel some posters - can't handle the problems properly. AS we ahve trust in you people we'll talk to you if we feel so. If that bothers you - you have the wron forum - again, last time I checked!

 

[Hitro]

If you want action, and you don't want to help the mods by reporting it...

At the end of the day, mods don't have all day to review every thread and seek out problem posts. Mods have jobs, lives and families and want to post too.

If you've a problem with the forums, bring it to us. Otherwise, stop beating it.

Now this really deserves a

I told you the problem right there. People have no idea anymore what can be said and what not and subsequently what should be reported and what not.

I would never have guessed that you would moderate someone for saying "I guess this thread won't last long". It always went through, for many years now.
I merely said I think it is more annoying that profanity.

You can hardly say you mods never see such comments, they are often the only posts in threads that are obvious candidates for closure and then closed quite quickly. Up to now I (and probably most others) assumed that kind of stupid comments are allowed.

So to make it short:

The problems are:

1. Too many rules resulting in too much work for mods and a generally negative atmosphere
2. Too much spam (strictly my personal view )