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The Purpose of Education in the United States

What are the reasons for this? How do we fix this? What is the true purpose of education? Should it be the production of the model citizen, the model worker, or the model intellectual?
Reasons? Honestly, at present public education seems to be a bureaucratic nightmare. Every teacher I've talked to, every news piece on the subject, seems to say the same thing: administration cares primarily about scores and funding, bad teachers cannot be fired, there are no real incentives to do well in the system, and by its nature it tends to push away quality teachers that go to private schools for less money to get away from the mess that is the public school system in many places.

I think the primary goal should be the production of an informed individual who appreciates knowledge and has a strong base of understanding to work off of, as far as primary and secondary education goes. I think the curriculums generally reflect these aspirations, but the execution is godawful much of the time.

Most people blame teachers' unions and short-sighted and management and asinine No Child type legislation.

That's the problem with entrenched and extensive management: people making decisions are less and less responsible for the consequences of their decisions and farther and farther removed from the issues they are supposedly presiding over.

There was a thought-provoking article in the NYT Sunday on these issues I just read, but I'm not sure how long it will be available:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24labor-t.html?ref=todayspaper
 
I would also venture to say that sometimes populaces make the wrong decision, as was the obvious case with Bush. But hey, people voted Benyamin Netanyahu, Silvio Burlesconi (three times), and Stephen Harper into office...mistakes happen. That is why we have term limits and democracy (with full suffrage!) now. But I'm sure the Italians, Canadians, and Israeli people are all just unwilling puppets of THE MAN.
It's pretty hard to tell whether or not you're making the right decision (first and foremost for your own interests) come election day, because the screw-ups and constitutional crises almost always occur post-election..
 
Of course they do. A nation which can't even be bothered to read a book and that despises intellectualism and idolizes stupidity is obviously not one that can select reasonable leadership at least half the time, as evidenced by the last 8 elections.

Sounds to me like someone is speaking as if they are an intellectual.....:p

I got news for you. More than a few people in this nation do indeed read books despite your opinion to the contrary. And the leadership has indeed been reasonable. Maybe not to your liking...but indeed reasonable.

Not sure I understand the idolizing stupidity comment. Unless of course you are referring to Hollywood...then it makes sense. A little.
 
It's not a "diabolical conspiracy", just common sense. Imagine if a revolutionary teaching method was developed to get kids three years ahead of the current curve (so that'd be, on average, learning 8th grade math in 5th grade, etc.). They'd be out of high school by 14-15 & out of college, ready to compete with adults by 18-19. The already stretched thin job market wouldn't be able to accommodate.

The number of jobs is not rigid.
 
downtown said:
Everything he posted.
QFT.

DNK also makes some good points, but I think there is a distinction to make between more about what's in the news and what's actually the problem. I'd say things like "problems with teachers' unions" and "not firing 'bad' teachers" aren't the root problems, just a result of other factors - though they are the things the news likes to focus on.

Now, it is fair to say that the American education system and its results are far from perfect. It's also fair to say that in many areas it doesn't compare excellently to other Western Nations. As far as I can tell, there's pretty much three fundamental things contributing to the problem:

1) Almost exclusively local funding for the vast majority of schools, leading to huge differences in facilities, teachers, etc... from one area to another.

2) Similar to No. 1, no meaningful educational standards beyond the state and local levels, which means vast differences between states/regions as well.

3)Large, economically, socially, racially etc... diverse population with greatly different educational needs in some areas.

So how do we solve these problems?

1-2: Abolish public schools. Everyone pays to send their kids to school, let the free market prosper. If you're too poor to afford a good school for your children that's your fault. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free-Or-Reduced Lunch Program (TANSTAAFLP)

3: Let the government interfere less in people's lives and the free market will sort things out. Oh, and make sure everyone keeps their Second Amendment rights. Survival of the fittest.

Spoiler :

Well, besides the fact once again that the OP's "facts" and similar facts are just dead wrong, I would like to discuss what I feel are the major impact of these three factors. Some of the other things in the this thread seem absurdly conspiratorial - there's no possible way 14-15 yr old kids, anywhere, would ALL be prepared for college/fulfilling future careers under any system. The government/school system is not designed to hold kids back this way - and if anything most places in the US really do a good job of giving additional opportunities to students willing and able to take them - but there's simply no getting around the fact that some kids won't be at as high a level as others. Anyone who says such occurs in other countries is just lying to your face. And I know that CFC isn't exclusively American so I'm sure other posters can verify things like "every 12 year old in our country studies what Americans study in universities" simply isn't true.

So I'll start with point #3 - which is a chief component of the differences between the US and some countries. We're certainly not alone in being a large nation with a very diverse population - the same does apply to China, India, and other countries. But in comparison to some relatively more homogenous places, say Scandinavian nations, one can see where this has an impact on education. I'd wager the differences between good schools, with upper-class socioeconomic students in the US really isn't different from places in Europe. The problem is, there are a ton of students in the US left behind correlated with other demographics - non-English speaking immigrants, those in inner cities or rural areas, etc... So basically, when looking at some statistic (just an example here) that the US is on average 18th out of 25 compared to European countries in reading or something, these things come into play for other statistics - Luxembourg has a higher GDP per capita simply for being smaller and more homogeneous. This doesn't excuse everything, but it's simple panic mongering and stupidity to act like such statistics represent the whole United States.

So given that some things are rather out of the system's control, we ask, what CAN be done to improve American schools. And here I'm not going to push for some of my personal opinions but just explain why those first two factors I mentioned cause a lot of trouble, for anyone who doesn't know. The first fact is that schools in the US are vastly and primarily funded by local sources, say property taxes. This means schools in rich areas are rather richer, those in poor areas quite poor, leading to huge discrepancies in quality. And the fact is that teaching is really not a very lucractive job in the majority of places all around the country - I know it's an old platitude, but we probably really could attract better teachers by simply paying more, even without other reforms. So the simple fact is, the way things are now simply doesn't work - whether you feel the solution is just a straight increase of federal funding, an increase of charter type schools, or something else, everyone should recognize the current system's shortcomings.

But there's just a slight bit more contributing to why Mississippians may have the highest test scores in the nation of some tests (the ones the state of Mississippi writes) and near the lowest on others. That problem is the problem of inconsistent standards. Again, this is something of a political issue as well, as some people feel the federal government has no place in education - I'm not going to argue that here, but just point out the effects of the current system. The current system is basically that every state can set whatever standards it wants - even by the high school level, there is nothing nationally required for students, even tests like the SAT or ACT are voluntary (albeit important to post-secondary education). Anyone familiar with American colleges know how state-by-state differences work - some students will never have had to study a foreign language, some spent 4 years of high school in physical education classes, others none, etc... these things all vary by state. And I should add, not just for students, but teachers too - different places can have wildly different requirements, whether for education (masters degrees in education versus barely anything sometimes elsewhere) or other factors in the teachers jobs. All these things make for great inconsistencies in the American school system - so again, it's not really that the system doesn't work at all, it just doesn't work everywhere all the time.

And I will add a disclaimer that I haven't been employed/worked in education myself, I'm not claiming I have my only experience is having gone through it all recently, in the US, and kept up to date on education-related news. (so I may be lacking on, say, the elementary school perspective of the current Borg generation which apparently drills endlessly on the same things, and has a different cultural upbringing, what with being born with ipods embedded in their skulls and all ;))
 
Sounds to me like someone is speaking as if they are an intellectual.....:p

I got news for you. More than a few people in this nation do indeed read books despite your opinion to the contrary. And the leadership has indeed been reasonable. Maybe not to your liking...but indeed reasonable.

Not sure I understand the idolizing stupidity comment. Unless of course you are referring to Hollywood...then it makes sense. A little.

I understand exactly what Formaldehyde is saying. As I'm not too far removed from my high school years, I remember them very vividly.

As the top performer of my math class, the "curve" was based on my performance. If I did well, the teacher had justification to not give an artificial boost to the scores of the rest of the class and it made everyone else look stupid. I was hated for doing well! This mentality stayed with me through college, where I barely tried and ended up as merely average in that area.

Books are not a "cool" thing and much of of our society is based around idolizing everything except intellectualism. Sports players are paid top dollar. Sales and marketing make the big bucks. Engineers and scientists, as much as everyone says they're needed, are often paid well but not spectacularly.
 
Idea:

What if national tests were designed such that schools would want to perform poorly on the tests (as in, poor performance = more funding/assistance) while the students and teachers are rewarded/recognized for performing well? In theory, schools could teach the material rather than the tests, and if it isn't working for whatever reason funding (including some evaluation panels that might take it upon themselves to "reassign" teachers and administrators) would be allocated to help the school perform better.

If a school performs poorly, maybe they'd get the funding to turn things around and get better afterschool programs or whatever it takes to keep kids focused.

With that done, maybe schools could focus more on raising the standards all around.
 
I think we are confusing "the purpose of American education", which is a pretty simple question to answer, and "whats wrong with American education/how to fix it", which should be an entirely new thread, and has many very complicated answers.
 
http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm (article comparing education in different countries)

There was some thread called "design your ideal education system" a while ago. I made a post there.

I don't know the American system very well, keep that in mind.

I personally would prefer a system where students have to decide one general direction from a small number, yet distant options (like 30% would pick science, 30% economy, 20% technics, 20% something else) and let everybody that follows one specific direction follow exactly the same courses. The first 2 years the choice doesn't really matter so you have time to change direction.

Especially in the directions preparing for university the work load should be big. People that don't work at home shouldn't be able to go to high school unless in labor directions. (solely because homework is mandatory and at least some "learning by head" is required for some tests)

PS: sometimes I get the impression that all schools/countries where you have to learn several languages at a young age score great on all areas. This can be explained by the hypothese that even the best, fast understanding pupils in elementary school would have to learn how to study to pass these.
 
Overall? It's to promote the status quo and keep an old, rich, white elite.

I don't know how else you explain the ridiculous acceptance of the system at the government level. The system is perfect at providing the best education to those with wealth and funnel them into places of networking and nepotism (good colleges) so they are ready to take the mantle from their parents, while eliminating social mobility for the disadvantaged.

We need to eliminate property taxes being the main funding for schools, and make universities far more accessible. But first we need to stop being so ambivalent and accepting of the broken system.
 
Overall? It's to promote the status quo and keep an old, rich, white elite.
How does universal education preserve an old, rich white elite? If you want to preserve an elite, just have the masses wallow in ignorance.
 
Young 'uns can keep inventing medical life extension technologies for us. We'll fund the science, and then patent and profit off of the returns.

GET OFF MY LAWN
 
How does universal education preserve an old, rich white elite? If you want to preserve the elite, just have your population wallow in ignorance.

Well, considering the massive difference in school quality by zipcode, thats basically what happens.
 
How does universal education preserve an old, rich white elite? If you want to preserve an elite, just have the masses wallow in ignorance.
First of all, what is universal about education in America? Second, even giving you that, the masses need to have a pretense of an education and be told success stories where people just like them achieve the American Dream so they think it is possible when it really isn't. You can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, don't think that we have real social mobility. The only people that get an education that means something in terms of acquiring and creating wealth or power are those with access to the prestigious institutions and those that use them properly (not doing well in classes, but making connections and networking).
 
I understand exactly what Formaldehyde is saying. As I'm not too far removed from my high school years, I remember them very vividly.

As the top performer of my math class, the "curve" was based on my performance. If I did well, the teacher had justification to not give an artificial boost to the scores of the rest of the class and it made everyone else look stupid. I was hated for doing well! This mentality stayed with me through college, where I barely tried and ended up as merely average in that area.

Books are not a "cool" thing and much of of our society is based around idolizing everything except intellectualism. Sports players are paid top dollar. Sales and marketing make the big bucks. Engineers and scientists, as much as everyone says they're needed, are often paid well but not spectacularly.

Since when is everything about money?

Answer: Its not. It never has been.
 
http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm (article comparing education in different countries)

I recommend this to every who's reading this thread again, it was a nice article. Don't want to paraphrase it myself since it had a lot of important info. But at least this study quells all the alarmism - the US isn't the greatest, true, but it is average among these nations.

As to what Syterion was saying, in his first post, I also agree entirely - it's not that the system is malevolently controlled by some shadow society - just the natural decisions of people have worked out to create great inequalities. Schools funded by local taxes = poor areas have poor schools, and on top of that, successful people (often even those that are from poor backgrounds) avoid poor areas in favor of richer areas for better schools, perpetuating the cycle.
 
It's funny that nobody has mentioned the parents as a major part of the problem.

It's kind of been noted, but American suburbanite kids outperform everyone in the industrialized world. To include every other nations rich kids.

The flip side is more grim and telling. Our inner city poor perform worse than anywhere in the industrialized world.

A suburbanite child has more than twice the vocabulary of an inner city school child. Who's fault is that? And how can we expect these children to perform and turn into responsible educated adults when their parents are essentially scum of the earth?
 
It's funny that nobody has mentioned the parents as a major part of the problem.

That's because this isn't a thread about problems in American education, this thread is about the purpose of education.
 
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