The Pygmy of Elba

[MyBabylonIsBig]

Hi. I’ve been sent here from newbie questions to bother you (yes, you. Personally) with my attempts to make a game winning plan. The situation I’m dealing with is pretty simple: I woke up on a tropical island, and there is Napoleon next to me. And very soon one of us will get hungry.

Difficulty: Monarch.
Speed: Epic, I believe
Civilization: Random (Greeks, Pericles)
The rest is default for Custom Game.
Starting location:

Spoiler :

Save:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2MQuxd44GLHMXpRdkpCdjMxNlU/view?usp=sharing

1-20 Turns (it's a magical link, just click on it!)
21-40 Turns
41-60 Turns
61-84 Turns
85-90 Turns
90-115 Turns
116-135 Turns
136-155 Turns
156-170 Turns (The Copper Wenches War, part I)
171-190 Turns (The Copper Wenches War, part II)
191-207 Turns (The Copper Wenches War - intermission)
208-227 Turns (The Copper Wenches War - conclusion)
228-248 Turns (in which the Glorious Greeks start eating seagulls for no reason)

[URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14202585&postcount=73"]The End Times
[/URL]

It’s a start I played twice already, and I hope third attempt will be the charm. First time all was lost because of a poorly timed Horse Archer attack, second time it was too much razing and too little expansion. I won the war with France both times, but I eventually lost the game, because there is a continent full of other people that are, apparently, rabbits AND techtrade junkies at the same time.

Thanks to the kind strangers from newbie questions, I revised my overall strategy and now have a much better idea what I’m going to do. I’m going to use Food as Hammers, Hammers as Gold, and Commerce as… Gold? Yes, that sounds about right.
Now, the plan for the beginning is something like that:
I settle where I stand. I research:

Wheel -> Animal Husbandry -> Pottery -> Mining -> Archery -> Horse Archery -> Bronze Working.

Or

Mining -> Animal Husbandry -> Pottery -> Wheel -> Bronze Working -> Archery -> Horse Archery.

By the time I’m done with Animal Husbandry, I should have a Worker ready to take Sheep. I can go for Animal Husbandry first, but I think building a Worker with a least 3 pop is a better idea.
I’m not sure about research order, but I will probably go with second option. That way I can hopefully get a mine ready for the time I start building a Granary. I also get Slavery sooner, so maybe I can whip something in between turns, maybe an Archer to block a natural chokepoint between me and Napoleon, just in case. Yes, there is a natural chokepoint.

After getting 5 pop in my capital I’m building a Settler and getting Horses nearby (about 5-6 tiles northeast from my starting position). Should I have spare worker time afterwards, I will pave a road to Napoleon’s territory. By the time Horse Archery is done I need Barracks in my capital, so that my glorious horse people can heal at will with their free promotion.

Then I make 3 Riders of Doom, declare on Napoleon, start my harassment and beeline for Currency. After I have at least 5 Horse Archers in the field, I settle 2 potentially hammer-rich cities to sponsor my expansion and science with Wealth. Then I go for Construction for Catapults and take all the good French stuff, razing the rest. Then I start researching towards Optics while continuing my expansion, because there is too much Greek and too little world.

There is also a question of Stone. To take it, I need Masonry. Since I’m Creative and probably won’t be able to achieve Cultural Victory, I have little use for Stonehenge. However, I can take Pyramids for Hereditarily Rule/Representation. Since it will inevitably slow my harassment, however, I think I’m going to pass it.


So… now I just wait for your advices and suggestions, right?

 

[sampsa]

I can go for Animal Husbandry first, but I think building a Worker with a least 3 pop is a better idea.

You won't go wrong if you always go worker first, best tile tech first. Try it and see the difference.

 

[elitetroops]

Unfortunately scout is not very useful here on the first turn (always use scouting unit to reveal more info relevant to your settling decision before doing anything with your settler). Maybe move 1NW, there might be gold or something 3W1N of settler.

Settle in place sounds decent enough. Another option is to settle on top of stone. You keep all resources you can see and gain a lot of mystery tiles. A bit risky to do so, as you don't know what the mystery tiles are. But they can't be much worse than what you see now... Though I wouldn't risk it here as you already have a 2 hammer city tile. There's fogged 2 tiles in the east that can hold some more resources as well.

Worker first is a no-brainer. Research AH (or possibly AG if you have wheat in the east). Unless you have a start with only seafood (or you are planning to warrior rush your neighbors immediately), you shouldn't even consider anything else than worker first.

 

[Lexicus]

Would you mind uploading the save? I'd like to play along with this start...

 

[elmurcis]

Yup, only time I don't go worker 1st is going WorkBoat 1st, working max hammer tile possible.
Still here I have feeling that plain hill 1NE would be better city place (well.. with 1 poor sheep and Fplain I would risk moving if there is chance to get something more)

 

[Tristan_C]

In an earlier post I advised against horse archers for this session, mainly on grounds that it is a tech diversion and you already know you have iron in your area. You probably missed my post because you seem obsessed with them, and you're also taking to heart some very generic advice that well-intentioned folks gave you, even though it doesn't apply on this start (such as extensive use of slavery -where's the food for that?).

Unfortunately scout is not very useful here on the first turn (always use scouting unit to reveal more info relevant to your settling decision before doing anything with your settler). Maybe move 1NW, there might be gold or something 3W1N of settler.

Settle in place sounds decent enough. Another option is to settle on top of stone. You keep all resources you can see and gain a lot of mystery tiles. A bit risky to do so, as you don't know what the mystery tiles are. But they can't be much worse than what you see now... Though I wouldn't risk it here as you already have a 2 hammer city tile. There's fogged 2 tiles in the east that can hold some more resources as well.

Worker first is a no-brainer. Research AH (or possibly AG if you have wheat in the east). Unless you have a start with only seafood (or you are planning to warrior rush your neighbors immediately), you shouldn't even consider anything else than worker first.

He has advanced information about the layout since it's not the first try.

The stupid game engine thinks it's given his capital a food source because of the brown Sheep and the 1 Flood Plain. The hell with that. There is food & green tiles on the island, just not here. Settling in place is OK here but I would honestly consider moving the capital once Napoleon is over. Alternative would be to delay CS and bulb astro, pull in those foreign overseas routes early.

 

[Seraiel]

1. Always build Worker first (unless WB first is better ;D ) and research the tech you need to improve the food (in this case AH) .

2. With this start, you want Currency or at least Alphabet as early as possible, because seem to be your biggest source of income. This can vary from game to game, so I'd supposed AH -> Mining -> Masonry -> Writing -> Alphabet. You can skip the Granary for now and slow-build 1-2 Settler at size 3 working the unimproved FP, the improved Sheep and the Stone. Wheather you research Agriculture to farm the Floodplain or whether you Cottage it is your decision, I'd skip both. I'd skip Masonry aswell, but trading for Masonry is almost impossible, because the AIs don't trade it before someone has built the GLH, Agri or Pottery can be gotten by trade easily though.

3. Build Worker, Warriors 'til size 3, then Settler -> Settler. Post again if you have revealed a little of the map and when the first Settler is ready, so we can help you chosing good spots .

Building an economy btw. is more important on Monarch+ then going to war as early as possible imo.

 

[sampsa]

Building an economy btw. is more important on Monarch+ then going to war as early as possible imo.

So much this.

 

[MyBabylonIsBig]

Wow. Thanks, everyone.

Would you mind uploading the save? I'd like to play along with this start...

Added in the first post, and I’ll keep my foreknowledge in spoilers. If you’re wondering about the Porthos bit of leader's name, it’s because my previous one was called “Decorated Balls of Athos”, so I just went on with the theme. And if you’re wondering what’s “Calibrated Cat” and why it has groupies, I honestly have no idea, it’s just the first thing that came to my mind.

You won't go wrong if you always go worker first, best tile tech first. Try it and see the difference.

Just build the goddamn Worker

Will do.

a lot of mystery tiles

Oh, right. I should share with you my psychic insight, because I definitely didn’t memorize the layout and I just see things. Yes.

Spoiler :

North: the river goes on, some hills and forests, one floodplain, coast (no resource) and a source of Copper.
West: hills, then grasslands with Pigs and a source of Iron
Northwest: Napoleon and one-tile width two-tiles long chokepoint with hills and forest tiles, it also should have…. Fish? Probably Fish.
South: tundrish forested hills with Deer and 2 Fishes (one of my hammer-to-gold cities later on is definitely going there – it will grow big fast enough to work those hills, and then it is going to do it for a while. Maybe until the end of the game)
Southeast: Hills, forests, plains, Iron source
Northwest: Grasslands and Horses

In an earlier post I advised against horse archers for this session, mainly on grounds that it is a tech diversion and you already know you have iron in your area. You probably missed my post because you seem obsessed with them, and you're also taking to heart some very generic advice that well-intentioned folks gave you, even though it doesn't apply on this start (such as extensive use of slavery -where's the food for that?).

Oh. Right. One thing I think I should explain is that I’m mostly not going to whip my Capital. I mused around the idea, but the food there is indeed scarce, even if I put farms, so maybe a few military units or a building, but not much. What I’m going to whip is my expansion – north of Napoleon there is a huge batch of land with little hills and forests, but with good food and rivers.

Spoiler :

I should have no mercy and capitalize that.
Horse Archers. I like my hit-and-run, and their high movement worked like a charm before, since I can be everywhere, and because the AI really likes to do weird things, like moving his archers in the open because I’m a few tiles away now.
However, you’re right, I should move out from my comfort zone. And you are, again, right, it is a tech diversion. So, you suggest something like this then:

Mining -> Animal Husbandry -> Pottery -> Wheel -> Bronze Working -> Iron Working -> to Currency and Construction.

I take Iron instead of Horses, west one because of Pigs. I think I’m going to need an Axeman to go with Swordsmen. The force will be, say, 4 guys including Axeman. I’m going to use that hill near Paris after I pillage the Copper, so I can keep Napoleon in check. I’m also going to need other raiders, maybe some Warriors will do, since I probably won’t be able to squeeze anything else in production. If I just keep the Warriors with the stack, they should be able to get in, no trouble.
On the second thought, I CAN start harassment with Axemen. I have no use for Swords for now – I’m not taking cities. So, just Bronze Working guys, one spearman, one… oh, right, I have Phalanx, not Axemen. All the better. I can take Copper and start harassment earlier, and I can take Currency earlier, and then switch to IW and Construction.

Mining -> Animal Husbandry -> Pottery -> Wheel -> Bronze Working -> to Currency > Iron Working (start building swordsmen) -> Construction.

Okay, sound like a plan. I won’t be able to sit down play until evening (about 5-6 hours from now), so you can still criticize my all-new plan.

Well, hey, I got some more feedback right while I was getting ready to post. Okay. So,

AH -> Mining -> Masonry -> Writing -> Alphabet

Not building a Granary since I’m going Settlers sounds pretty reasonable, and that techline doesn’t actually delay my attack much. I’m not sure, however, what I’m going to do with just Alphabet without Currency. I don’t think Napoleon will trade me techs, and I really don’t want to feed him with our superior Greek Knowledge. Building Research with my hammers to get to Currency ASAP?

Building an economy btw. is more important on Monarch+ then going to war

B-but I just want to kill people! Ahem. Yes, okay, no killing. Bloodshed is dear to me, but victory is dearer. Also, let’s address it directly:

Do you guys think I shouldn’t rush Napoleon and attack him with Construction and IW, or should I put early harassment and keep it on until I actually attack? Because I have a feeling that early harassment might not be that good idea after all. I'll think about more it when I get around to play.

 

[Seraiel]

@ MBIB:

You research Alpha to be able to research further. You need a source of and while normally those are Cottages or Specialists with this start you'll want to use for that and build Research (which is one of the main abilities unlocked by Alpha) . You also don't want to trade Napoleon many and critical techs but only get the basic techs from him and you don't need to fear giving him Writing or Alpha for it, both are no military techs so he doesn't get stronger from a militaristic point of view if you give those to him.

Also, on normal speed you usually want to go for either HAs (without Siege) if the resistence you need to overcome is small or you'll want to go for a full-scale construction war with Catapults and other 1-move-units. Swords are a decent weapon, though War Elephants are far superior, so if there's Ivory somewhere make sure that you get it. As a force I'd suggest something like 8 5 Swords, 2 Axes, 1 Spear and 4-5 Catapults (you should always try to have something like at least 50% of the number of your killer-units in siege, so i. e. 5 Catapults if you use 7 Swords, 2 Axes and 1 Spear) . Siege can bombard the cities' defenses and also has the amazing ability to do collateral damage on the attack, so a Catapult can damage up to 6 defenders simultaniously when attacking them. Learn from the start to create "Stacks of Doom" (SoD's) when you use 1-move-units so 80% of the strongest attack units (in this case Swords or maybe Axes) and then 1-2 of the "anti-units" (Spears against mounted and Axes against metal-units) . Once you're in war, don't stop to build units too early, especially the Siege usually needs to be replaced, we call Catapults "suicide siege" , because that's what they are, if a city has 5 defenders, you attack with 1-2 Catapults first, those will die, but after that all the defenders will be weakened so much that the Swords (or Axes) can easily kill them with 90%+ chances.

 

[Tristan_C]

Do you guys think I shouldn’t rush Napoleon and attack him already with Construction and IW, or should I put early harassment and keep it on until I actually attack? Because I have a feeling that early harassment might not be that good idea after all. I'll think about more it when I get around to actually play.

The equator is ideal land for cottage spam (big stretches of green tiles under all that jungle). The theory is, if you let him settle all that land unmolested, you save the cost & time of building settlers yourself. If you remain at war and do choking, the AI will spam units instead of building settlers for you. So it might not make the captures much easier. But Napoleon has a high probability of building a unit in peacetime anyway. So there's a lot to consider and ultimately the map and context will decide. Go ahead and think things over

 

[MyBabylonIsBig]

you don't need to fear giving him Writing or Alpha for it

I’m concerned that he will stop his “peace” research after that and will switch to full-scale warmongering, but I trust your experience.

"Stacks of Doom"

Yes, I figured that concept out rather early. I’ve been actually meaning to ask if Catapults are supposed to be disposable cups of my wild assault party, or is there a way to save them, but I you answered that. I still like my cavalry to raid, pick of strugglers and disrupt communications, or act as a mobile reserve, but I won’t be able to do it this time, so a Stack of Doom it is.

Well. Let’s get started, shall we.
1-20 Turns

Spoiler :

1 Turn
How do you start a day in 4000 BC? Right. You get up, have a breakfast and then you build a city.
I pick AH, switch capital production to Worker and move my Scout to a goody hut.

Spoiler :

2 Turn
People of the goody hut are quitting the game and we can have their stuff. +34 Gold pieces.

Spoiler :

3 Turn
Nothing happens.
4 Turn
Nothing happens.
5 Turn
Nothing happens.
6 Turn
Nothing happens. I’m starting to see a pattern here.
7 Turn
I made myself a cup of tea.
8 Turn
I pick up another goody hut. It’s full of Dwarf Fortress players, so we automatically learn Mining. Cool.

Spoiler :

I wasn’t sure before that, but now I think I’ll go with what Seraiel proposed above. I’m taking Masonry and going straight for Writing -> Alphabet -> Currency.
9 Turn
And then Nothing happened again.
10 Turn
My Scouts went to a picnic in the hills and were never heard from again. Also, “Barbarian Bear” sounds really badass and would make an excellent metal band name.

Spoiler :

11-18 Turn
The cup of tea is half empty and half full at the same time.
18 Turn.
The Glorious Greeks finish their first Worker AND Animal Husbandry. Worker moves to Sheep, I switch to Masonry. Capital starts a Warrior.

Spoiler :

19-20 Turn
Nothing strikes again.

I think I’ll play 20 more turns later on, to get things started.

ultimately the map and context will decide

I think now I should be able to do a little bit of both. Give Napoleon some time to develop his my land, and choke him when he starts getting too powerful. I’m going to need some recon and good timing, though. I think I’ll go for Open Borders with him and send someone to watch Napoleon movements 24/7.

 

[Seraiel]

As you play on Monarch, you could try to some Workerstealing with one of your early Warriors . You'll need to be careful because the AI starts with Archers Napoleon has high courage so attacks with far less than 50% odds, so he will attack you when he can, even if you stand on a forrested hill (which the peaceful AIs wouldn't consider, generally the more aggressive and AI, the more units it builds and the more aggressive it is also in war ) .

Remember to build Warriors 'til size 3, queue a Settler and improve the Stone . Barbarians (not the animals, the real ones) btw. don't enter your borders before the AI's city-count isn't greater than 3 cities / AI in average. Also directly learn, that Barbs cannot spawn in a 5x5 square around a unit and only below fogged areas, so use your 1-2 extra Warriors and put them so that they "fogbust" as much as possible. It's a very valuable tactic also to fugbust the areas 'til the borders of an AI are closer than one's own, Barbs afaik always run towards the nearest borders. And if you play with Barbs also directly learn to watch out for the Great Wall, as that one will let all Barbarians run towards someone else, which may be you if you sit next to that AI ^^ . It could be wise to build the GW after city 2 or 3 btw. (should still be safe on Monarch with having Stone) . The GW is extremely cheap and you can do with a lot less Warriors if you have it. Getting Great Spy points rises in value with the difficulty, it's not very valuable on Monarch, because the AIs don't research that fast. I write that because you want to have a Great Scientist as the first Great Person in the major number of cases. Usually the capital can create one the fastest because it usually has good food and also is more likely to get an early Library so hiring Scientists is possible. In this case however with your capital being very low on , I'd like you to pay extra attention towards getting a -rich spot as 2nd and maybe you'll want to build the GW in your capital then. You then would need to pay attention towards getting a Library in the other city, because 2 Scientists give 6 while the GW gives 2 , so if you still want a GS first you need that Library before the GW has created 2/3rds of a GP. 2/3rds of a GP aren't much in the beginning so that'll go quite fast. GPs get more expensive the more you create (their rises by 100 for the first 10, then by 200 for the next 10 a.s.o. ) so if you don't make sure to get a GS with 100% first, you might get mightily screwed up by getting the wrong GP or would need to wait a lot longer until you get your 100% GS (1st GP is 100, with +100 the 2nd is actually 100% more expensive ) .

Thx for the entertaining report btw. .

 

[MyBabylonIsBig]

you could try to some Workerstealing with one of your early Warriors

Napoleon's Archer is close to my territory. If he’ll go away, or better yet, get eaten by lions...

Great Wall, as that one will let all Barbarians run towards someone else,

How much damage will those barbs do to Napoleon? Would it be a decent way to apply indirect pressure on him?

I write that because you want to have a Great Scientist as the first Great Person

Yes, I would very much prefer a Great Scientist. Can he bulb Currency? If so, I can take a detour and research
Writing –> Bronze Working
whip a library in my second city and probably get Currency/Bronze Working combination overall faster. I mean, I’m Philosophical.

21-40 turns

Spoiler :

21 Turn
Buddhism was founded in a distant land. There was a party.
We weren’t invited.
24 Turn
The Sheep is taken. I move the Worker 1S to start prebuilding a mine, since it’s all he can do right now.

Spoiler :

25-28 Turns
Because of the giants hitting a nearby hill with their picks, Athens citizens haven’t been able to sleep for about two centuries.
29 Turn
Athens grow to the size of 2, first Warrior is ready. I send him north to fogbust, but do not move him out of my borders - Mighty Barbarian Bear is still at large. I stop Worker from building the mine and send him to Stone.

Spoiler :

31 Turn
Masonry is done. Worker starts a query right away.
36 Turn
Athens grow to 3, second Warrior is completed. He soon becomes northeast branch of Fogbusting Incorporated. I switch Athens to Settler.

Spoiler :

37 Turn
Hinduism was founded in a distant land. And we’re still living in our parents’ garage, Greeks.
38 Turn
Napoleon comes. I spend a few minutes imagining his head on a pole.

Spoiler :

Looks like a pretty exclusive accessory.

Spoiler :

40 Turn
40 turns have passed! Yay. Anyway, I’m thinking about my placing my second city here:

Spoiler :

it claims Iron (1W), city tile upgades Plains, and it’s probably the most food-rich land I can settle right now, at least without Hunting and Sailing. I’ll escort the Settler with my northwest camping platoon and then move the Warrior to block the chokepoint north.

And there was an overview map of my part of the island, but since I'm the only psychic around here, I deleted it.

 

[Lexicus]

Can he bulb Currency?

Unfortunately, no. List of techs that each great person bulbs and the order they do it can be found here:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/greatpeople_tech.php

Thanks btw for putting spoilers in, haven't gotten a chance to try the game yet

 

[Seraiel]

That must be the poorest island I have ever seen *lol* .

You imo. shouldn't play with map-knowledge, at least not with applying it towards your decisions. Currently the Horses are the most valuable location because you want to have a strategic resource and you don't know that there is Iron + Copper aswell. Discover the coast there, I really hope there's some food there, otherwise good city-locations are really very limited. The Pigs are a location for the strongest city, as this is Monarch probably better settle there for the 2nd city as Barbs won't play a role as early as they would on Deity so you probably can get away with founding that city 2nd and not having a strategic resource for Barb-defense. It also complies with my request to settle a site that's strong food-wise to generate a Great Scientist. Then you definitely will want to settle the Horses before maybe trying at the GW though imo.

Regarding the GW: AIs get bonuses against Barbs so while they apply pressure towards you it at least needs Raging Barbs or the Vedic-event to own an AI.

And a small tip towards your Worker-management: You should have completed building that mine even though the Stone is the better tile imo. , because while building a Settler, the Plains-Mine is a full 4-yield tile. Normally Plains-Mines are horrible tiles because they cost 2 (each citizen consumes 2 so a Plains-Hill having 0 means it has -2 actually) and 2 can easily be 4 via the whip, even 5 are possible when the city is very small so a Plains-Mine actually is either useless until the city is something like size 8-10+ or it even costs production, when producing a Settler though it's as great as the much better Grassland Mines, which you should prefer to build in the future (not in this situation in special though because of the Settler situation and the Worker saving a turn while saving 1 more when needing to move on the Marble afterwards) .

And remember what I wrote about fogbusting. Your Warriors are standing inside of your borders, you should use those units to reduce the Barb-spawn in the area to which you want to send your Settler. That your capital is undefended is good atm. btw. . Only use defenders where really needed and when needed, the more units are able to move the less stand uselessly around costing maintenance from a certain number onwars (you get free support for 1 unit every 4 population + there's a free limit that's dependant on the difficulty, see the financial advisor later and / or if interested) .

 

[MyBabylonIsBig]

Unfortunately, no.

And he calls himself a great scientist!

You imo. shouldn't play with map-knowledge, at least not with applying it towards your decisions.

I just see things, remember? With my third eye and my space energies receiving… receiver.
In all seriousness, I’m not going Horse Archery and I need a good food city right now. Pigs and grasslands looks like the best bet at the moment. I’m also going for GW, so I’ll take a risk and grab Horses with my third city. Now that I know about fogbusting, there is also not much place for barbs to spawn. And the chokepoint is held by Napoleon. More or less.

Discover the coast there, I really hope there's some food there

Look at the coast, ye mighty, and despair.

Spoiler :

41-60 Turns

Spoiler :

40 Turn
I move my Fogbusting enterprise a little because of a border expansion. Worker comes back to finish the mine.

Spoiler :

41 Turn
Barbarian Bear is spotted. Being the cunning beast rock band it is, it somehow made it to the other part of the map and looks very lost. You should get easy on the drugs there, buddy.

Spoiler :

Worker finishes the mine and I move him to make another one close to capital. I considered making another Plains mine, but Athens need to eat something, so it will be one on the +1F+1C+1H hills.
45 Turn
The mine is done, as so are Athens citizens: people now are packing to leave. By rough estimates, now it’ll take them whole 50 years less to feed the cat and say goodbyes.

Spoiler :

Athens Settler – 6 turns -> 4 turns.
47 Turn
We discovered secrets of Writing! We don’t have an alphabet, of course, but now we know how to draw funny dudes with beaks and people walking in a very weird way.
Barbarian Bear responds with a new single:

Spoiler :

Link to video.

I sign Open Borders with Napoleon, since I’m not rushing him. His Archer moves towards Athens.
49 Turns
Settler is ready. I forget I decide to allow Worker to finish the mine - I'll take Pigs a few turns later. It was a wrong call, since I won't have use for that mine for 10 more turns.

Spoiler :

51 turn
Tacitus completed his work “The Most Powerful Civilization of the World”.

Spoiler :

Tacitus is a di
Ahem. A dude that need to give the Greek people respect they deserve. I wish I could send one of my Warriors to have a conversation with him.
52 Turn
Metal Pig, our answer to Barbarian Bear, is founded. It starts a Library right away. The Worker will be able to start on Pigs in 2 turns.

Spoiler :

55 Turn
I decide to take a little risk and move my northeast fogbuster one tile north. It’s a decent position, on the hill and across the river, and there my Warrior can fogbust like never before. Napoleon’s Archer is exploring my territory.

Spoiler :

56 Turn
There is nothing in the land of Horses. The nothing from the first turns had to go somewhere, I suppose.

Spoiler :

58 Turn
Napoleon's Archer moves south and kills Barbarian Bear. Fans across the world are in deep depression. I swear to the Greeks that that atrocity will not be forgotten.

My Worker is done with Pigs near Metal Pig and I move him to build a mine close by. My Capital already has 2, plus Stone, and it won’t grow for a while, so I don’t think it will benefit from another mine right now. Napoleon builds his second city.

Spoiler :

60 Turn
Only to 2 turns until next Settler in my capital. Metal Pig will grow next turn. Turns out I remember wrong and chokepoint Fish is actually on the south side. Good for us. 26 turns left untill Alphabet.

I think I’ll place my 3rd city here: 2 floodplains, some grasslands, and it will get Horses with the first expansion.

Spoiler :

Losses:
Barbarian Bear, 11 turn – 58 turn. You brought so much joy in our world and were taken soo young.

Spoiler :

Link to video.

 

[Seraiel]

I just notice that you didn't install the BUG + BULL (or BUFFY as an alternative) mods. This is somehow unfortunate, I cannot see certain infos on your screens. Nothing of importance 'til now but it's gonna get difficult for me and the others to give the best advice possible without it and you severely hamper your play. I think BUG + BULL can be installed in the custom-assets folders and then the savegame doesn't need to be created with them, so I believe that you can still install them and if you can, you should, playing well without is a drag.

Regarding the GW again: If there is only little land that you can fogbust then the GW isn't that important. I still think it's worth building it though because the will net in a Great Person at some point of the game and that GP will be good for a GA, and the GW is so cheap that this investment, even with being so early, imo pays off.

Regarding Mines: I advised you to always prefer Grassland Mines, you seem to have overread that, because you wrote that you wanted to build a Plains Mine. Plains-Mines = very bad tiles unless the city is size 10+. Read the explanation for that again so you'll understand why.

Regarding Barbarian Bear's first single: Definitely Death Metal to my ears. Actually worse, because I like Metal (not Death Metal so much though, more bands like Stone Sour, Slipknot or Alter Bridge) .

Regarding Napoleon: You should try to uncover the rivers and coast towards him so you'll get a trade-connection via Sailing later.

In T50 or so you should have switched to researching Fishing, you probably want to replay the turns from then. You discovered the Fishes at about that time and you want to found a city there, you're CRE so will get those Fishes soon, Alpha takes long, food is the most important in CIV. You want that city to grow quickly so it can 2-3-pop-whip the Library and you want to hire Scientists in it for the Great Scientist, all of this requires a lot of . Prioritize very highly.

The 3rd city I'd found 1NE of the location that you marked. I first thought that the location is good but then noticed that it's 1 of the coast and you don't play a Pangaea-like map iirc. so will need ships.
You can btw. plan a city for that Oasis / River spot already if you want.

 

[MyBabylonIsBig]

I just notice that you didn't install the BUG + BULL (or BUFFY as an alternative)

I do use BUFFY 3.19.004. It gives me an error on start,

Spoiler :

but works fine otherwise. You can see Great General counter on the screenshots, and turns until next Great Man is born, all that.

Regarding Barbarian Bear's first single

I’ll fix it with Metal Pig if an appropriate occasion comes up. I’m more of a Motorhead man myself, but Barbarian Bear stroke me as a troubled but kind hearted collective, just trying to find its place in the world. Barbarian Bear might looked tough on the outside, but inside they were all unicorns and rainbows. And some bits of my Scout.

In T50 or so you should have switched to researching Fishing

I actually feel like an idiot, because only yesterday I found out that:
A: Greeks start with Fishing and Hunting
B: You do not need Sailing to build a Worker Boat.
I’d make myself “I’m Stupid” hat, but nothing really bad happened because of it, so not yet.

Regarding Mines:

My line of thought was that as following:
if one Plains mine helped me pop out Settler 2 turns earlier, then two Plains Mines will help even more.
However, then I remembered that Athens citizens are delicate flowers who need to eat at least once per a few days, so it won’t be possible to use that mine unless I have a very high pop and good food supply. Generally, what you said, but with bonus points since I forgot it and came to the same conclusion myself. Or with penalty points instead of bonus points.
Anyway, in the end I built a Grassland mine.

Regarding the GW again

Since my amazing discovery of Greek Starting Techs, I’m thinking about skipping GW for now and building 4th city here:

Spoiler :

By the time Alphabet is ready, I hope the city will be able to start producing Research almost immediately. And now when I actually think of it, I should move the location 1N, so it can work Grasslands Hills, and the Capital can take them if needed.
I’ll try GW afterwards. If nothing else, I’ll get some failgold.

Also, I’ll probably switch to 40-turn pieces from now on, otherwise that game will take forever. I’ll make more mistakes, but hopefully something of interest will be happening. I’ll play the turns a little bit later today.

 

[Seraiel]

Good post . Regarding the Grassland Mine I wanted to explain to you now, that Grassland Mines give the same 4 yields when building a Settler that Plains Mines give. When you build a Settler, the gets used aswell. It can have advantages to work more heavy tiles when having multipliers but you're still far away from your first Forge .

Regarding the BUFFY-mod: If you don't want to get that error-message you need to do the fixes for Vista / Win 7, they are listed on the HoF page (5-10 minutes of work) . What I ment though is really that some info isn't shown and now I understand that those infos are hidden in the options menu of CIV itself! Click the button at "show detailed city info" and adjust the settings towards your taste, I i. e. don't show any tips, Workers need to leave old improvements when automated (I don't automate anymore though unless in cultural victories very late when I got all necessary improvements and don't want to kill the Workers ^^ ) and Executives etc. should also not start automated. Don't know if there are further options, particle effects crashed my game often but that's probably because of my ATI graphics card.

And yes, found that city, it's a good one! 3 riverside Grassland Hills and 1 real source of + a neutral hill, it's a very good city 'til size 5 and you'll be making 2-pop-whips for a long time, even 3-pop-whips are possible with that city and when building Wealth later it's also economically strong. Only in the very late game it becomes medicore, but it's imo. almost on par with the Pigs + Fish site. If you didn't settle city 3 yet, think about fogbusting that area and settling the Fish + Deer city first, it's better and if no Barbs can spawn you also don't need a strategic resoure to defend.