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The Radiant Guard feedback

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Official Scenarios' started by Kael, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. EmptyWolf

    EmptyWolf Priest of Winter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
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    Location:
    Manitoba, Canada
    This scenario was very difficult and very frustrating. After I killed 100 infernal units I assumed I would receive control of Basium (after thinking 100 kills=win), but no. Basium was nowhere in sight, and then I discover I have to go slay Hyborem? At this point I was reduced to two stacks of units, one stack being Guybrush, an archmage and a mage, and the other being two mages and a hunter. So I gave up on defending Bourne The Gleaming since I assumed that's what Basium was doing now. So I combined my two mini-stacks and headed for Hyborem. Onward I razed Bastradam to find it had an ira spawn beside it!? The worst part being they spawn in water beside the city so of course my ships were torn apart immediately. The bannor reinforcements with the current patch are simply a confessor and a handful of champions, only the confessor was useful. Having the confessor and champions join my stack I then searched for Hyborem (floating eyes ahoy), and to my surprise I managed to defeat him with a barrage of Earth Elementals thanks to fear.

    I enjoy the story arc but this scenario The Radiant Guard was just frustrating and had a lack of information and unpleasant surprises such as the misleading 'kill 100 units' which implies victory. And it doesn't help either that when you start you have no idea where Bourne the Gleaming is and you have to use the floating eyes to find it when you could be using them to scout for Infernals. Also it's very strange that Basium refuses to give his map...insists the Lanun are 'not yet devoted to the Mercurian cause'. But of course I'm sure "Basium knows best.";)

    I'd have to say my most disliked part of the scenario is that it seemed to be strongly implied the win condition is get '100' kills.
    edit: As Zechnophobe mentioned about the enemy summons, the never ending Wraith stacks look like the image of defeat approaching. I found the only way to hold off those swarms of Wraiths was to hide beyond Guybrush, and keep tossing earth/water elementals, maelstroms and fireballs. Fleeing upon sight to run away from those uberwraiths and waiting for the duration to expire was not an option due to all of them having four mobility. That also means doom to all the units who weren't in your stacks at the time. I've also got the feeling you can't win this scenario if you lose your archmage or lawmage (which isn't mentioned anywhere).

    Zechnophobe's experience reminds me of my own.

     
  2. slowcar

    slowcar King

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
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    Location:
    hamburg, germany
    in my first attempt (i played all scenarios on immortal so far) i was beaten by units slipping by. i was not aware of the fact that i have to guard basiums city - the scenario name gives you a hint but the task "kill 100" is very straightforward.
    i would love to have this clarified in the mission assignments, something like "defend basiums city, kill 100 demons and wait for new orders". the last is helpful for desperate players sacrificing units to get the last kills.

    there should be a possibility to remove the withered promotion.

    the champions as a reward (i obviously played before the confessor was added in) felt like a joke, especially with the ira spawns taking out my barges and a couple of my units (until guybrush was healed up) - should have brought the archmage there.
    it would be very helpful to get a healer unit as well as an adept with courage or similar - just to have a way of winning without the archmage and his summons.

    i did not look close at the map design as i just discovered the intention of the scenario by reading this thread. i would suggest these changes:
    - make basiums city visible from the beginning
    - remove some of the woods, there are too few places where enemies can be taken down without at least 50% defense bonus
     
  3. uberfish

    uberfish Immortal

    Joined:
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    Once you know where the objectives are from the start, the scenario becomes a lot more approachable. I'd suggest making Bourne and Bastradam visible on turn 1, and putting a held defender or two in the city on low difficulty settings.

    On high difficulty levels using the ships to sail over and destroy Bastradam early seems to be the key, so that all the mages are back in time to deal with the liches. If you keep your units in the middle in two large stacks on good terrain with a strong defender on each, wraiths will only rarely attack. You can use maelstrom and blinding light to great effect (radiant guards should promote to mobility I) and pick off weakened units with fireball, summons or mobility promoted units.

    It's also worth moving a couple of the hunters east of the starting line back to Bourne to mop up any weak, fast units that slip through the line.
     
  4. Chip56

    Chip56 King

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
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    Location:
    Austria
    You really should be in one team with Basium and Capria.
    And reduce the spawn of immortals. I had about 20 of them respawning in Dis. It was imposible to kill them faster as they respawned (ok they only had 25Hp and 2,8 Strength, but they were more than my little army...)
     
  5. Dreylin

    Dreylin Cousin Itt!

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
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    755
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I also had this problem - patch h
     
  6. Vitek

    Vitek Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
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    75
    I was able to get past that by clicking another unit. Then I got winning pop-up.
     
  7. nealhunt

    nealhunt Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
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    253
    I agree that finding out the "kill 100" victory bait-and-switch was extremely aggravating. I replayed it several times even knowing that and had a couple issues.

    I can easily get through the 100 kills without losing a unit. However, by the time I get close to Bastradam the waves of Immortals and Balors knock down the stack regardless of Maelstroms and Regeneration spells. Waves of Iras (never saw less than ~4 in any play) against damaged stacks were the end of it in every case. Ships were, of course, toasted by flying Iras when they got anywhere close to the city.


    The biggest problem from my perspective was the turn lag as the game progressed. I have a decent machine (Dell's 630 gaming model with a few tweaks) but the lag was so long at one point that I thought it was locked. In one game I was reaching to do a hard reboot right before it finally broke loose. I dumped several games because I was spending more time waiting than playing.

    Between the lag and the large stacks, it occurred to me that there might be an issue with the spawn rate if the game is drawn out.
     
  8. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    If you send a save game from a current patch (ie: one I can load) that has over a 60 second delay between turns I'd love to check it out.
     
  9. nealhunt

    nealhunt Warlord

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    I'll try to remember to do that.
     
  10. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    same here
    may be linked to the fact I don't know where to put the stack
     
  11. phoulishwan

    phoulishwan Warlord

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    I had the same problem, it was frustrating and forced me into an offensive position using weak units against far tougher national units, it felt like an impossible task. I lost my first game, the turn after I killed Hyborem in the southern city near his capital then he razed Bourne. With the fore-knowledge gained I focused on two stop gaps his troops always come through and sent a large force immediately to take out Hyborem and do Capria's side quest at the same time. After getting my 100 kills, the Wraiths broke my Southern defense line but fortunately Basium had spawned and the troops I lost meant I could sit tight and just maelstrom everything killing what I could with my weak ass units and letting the units defending Bourne finish them off as they inevitably hit the city. My beelining payed it's dues however as shortly after the Wraiths showed up I killed Hyborem and won the game. The first time through I probably also would have won, considering Maelstrom had not been nerfed yet if only I'd put my Body Mage in the offensive force. Blinding light is resisted waaaaaaay too often imo.
     
  12. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    i agree that blinding light should have more effect, especially against creatures of the night
     
  13. Xuenay

    Xuenay Prince

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    Is there a single player so far who's decided to betray Basium?-)
     
  14. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I've won the game with and without betraying Basium. However, I've never won without cheating.
     
  15. Skitters

    Skitters Prince

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    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    I won when I dropped down a level on my second attempt...

    Spoiler :
    Though I suspect I didn't need to as the biggest help was knowing to get an offensive force off to Bastradum from the offset, and (after reading this thread) placing a ship on the tile that the IRA's are spawned. In doing this I managed to liberate the city before it I was requested to (indeed the request popped a turn or two after I'd already razed the city and got the reinforcements!)

    Route taken was;

    Send 1 Arcane Barge directly to the IRA spawning location

    Sent the Law and Body mages, plus Threepwood, a longbowman, Radiant guard and a Boarding Party to the fort in the large bay in the South where the second Barge and Queen of the line rendezvoused with them (the Barge providing a bit of fire support for the few defenders I kept there)

    Archmage, plus Arquebus were place to the south-west of the inland lake, whilst the two remaining Mages pushed a bit further East but remained pretty much in the North.

    The Archmages location was aimed to provide support for a Southern defence force that mostly relied on a Ranger. I found that by taking Bastradum early though that the number of Infernals that approached along the Southern shore were pretty limited in numbers anyhow, so the Archmage drifted North to support the Maelstrom firing Mages with harder hitting summons (Air from a distance, water closer in). After taking Bastradum, the two Arcane Barges moved back to the bay to provide a bit of fire support/fireball recon - albeit that was limited to hitting only the occassional straggler. The Queen of the line sat on the IRA spawn tile as I wasn't sure if they would still spawn afterwards...

    Guy and his gang then moved along to the East, and took out the other Southerly Infernal city which meant it was only the Northern approaches that I had to worry - but it was about this time that I hit the 100 mark.

    The march north met little resistance, and just as I was thinking I'd have to have Guy's bunch sat outside Dis whilst the Archmage and other remaining defence units attempted to march East to meet up with them, I tried a couple of maelstrom attacks and found with favourable odds found Guy ignored fear on his first attempt and took out Hyrborem.


    All in all, I enjoyed this scenario more than The Momus, though I agree with earlier posters that it should be clearer from the offset that there will more to do than notch 100 infernal kills. Also agree that players should start off knowing the location of the city to be defended (plus the various passes to it). I'd almost even be inclined to have a bigger batch of the troops start next to the Queen of the line as a bigger hint that the scenario isn't just about defence...
     
  16. uberfish

    uberfish Immortal

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    Given that the maelstrom nerf considerably increased the difficulty of this already hard scenario, I think it would be reasonable to upgrade the player's units a bit to compensate, either give them some XP or upgrade the unit quality as the swordsmen and archers are pretty useless.

    Maybe add something like a spirit/fire mage to help with the undead and a worker for strategic forest clearing?
     
  17. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    can't you just burn the forest?

    I still agree with the need of a bit more/stronger units
     
  18. Frozen-Vomit

    Frozen-Vomit Prince

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    (patch "l")

    You can't win this scenario if you slay hyborem before you get your 100 kills. (See save game - Gybrush wins at 66% odds).
     

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  19. Kenjister

    Kenjister Swimmer

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    Location:
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    When I played this scenario the first time I think I accidentaly dumped the Arcane Barges right where the Ira spawn without knowing it :D That probably helped me out quite a bit. Either way, I found it a bit odd that my Radiant Guards didn't have Iron Weapons while my Swordsmen did (I did play back on patch h though I think, maybe it was changed).
    Blinding light really saved me though, especially with the wraiths. I would blind them and then their duration would run out the turn they got back to normal. It does seem to be resisted very often, but it's balanced in the main game so I say it's fine. On the other hand, this scenario probably got ALOT harder with Maelstrom's recent nerf, so maybe a few more units might be needed so it doesn't get too hard.
    I agree that Bourne should be revealed at the start, as I had no idea what I was going to defend until I spend a few turns using Floating Eye on all the peaks. Otherwise, it was a very fun game. Really enjoyed the whole Falamar line of scenarios.
     
  20. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

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    Lore Question:
    Is the Blue demon with a Goat's Head and Shattered Bones the same-one as was negogiating with Einon Logos?
     

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