Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Official Scenarios' started by Kael, Dec 15, 2008.
My air elementals didn't spawn lightening elementals when they won a battle.
Yay, I beat it on my second try. On Monarch. (not sure what difference difficulty makes though on a scenario like this).
Going on the offensive right from the beginning made a huge difference. There are definite benefits from having played it once before and knowing the objectives ahead of time.
I beat it and got the trophy on the menu, but it didn't unlock the next scenario.
Immortal, patch K or L:
Bug - I won the game by defeating Hyborem, but still got the lovely story about Mikel's wife being "proper f****d" to quote from "Snatch". I assumed by taking on Hybo that was the sort of thing that would be avoided. If anyone can please post the text for the other win (happy ending for Mikel) in a screenshot I would really appreciate it.
When I finished, I didn't get a victory screen but the Black Tower was unlocked rom the scenario screen.
Also, I didn't have a lot of Ira spawning but I kept both barges at the norternmost line of Bastradam Bay, so that might have been accidental. Inspired by the NFL playoffs, I played defense similar to what the Eagles used to beat the Vikings: the corner cover run contain 4-gap scheme. To elaborate:
4 defensive tackles (fireballing mage + archer + radiant + hunter) fortifying and containing.
3 linebackers blitzing the gaps (Guybrush/Archmage/Ranger)
2 deep cornerbacks in coverage of weakened units that slip through (Ratha/Ranger with mobility 2).
Despite the goal being a bit unclear, I scouted west with an eye and figured out what to do.
All in all, turns 5-40 were the best 5 hours I spent playing civ. Like a beautiful chess match, when one wrong move, one lost unit or one unit outside of position means the difference between triumph and defeat. Maybe I won without cheating because I spent a full minute thinking about every unit move, but that is the way I recommend everybody to play it to have the most fun.
I haven't been able to start this, it crashes to desktop after briefly showing the intro screen.
This is a viciously difficult scenario. I managed a clean victory by betraying the Mercurians and letting the endless tide of Wraiths and Beasts of Agares do most of the work, but the idea of folding up my battered defensive line and trucking over to Dis, against that same tide, to fight the strongest demons yet, is the stuff of nightmares. I can't think of a way to use Maelstrom effectively when it hurts me just as much as it hurts them. Bastradam is an absolute non-starter with those Ira. Basium manages his forces so poorly that I've seen him defeated in his capital by a horseman. I assume that the horseman had some daunting combat odds, but it's still obvious that he can only hold out for so long, having mailed his megastack of angels to an ignominious disintegration somewhere near the center of the map.
Am I wrong in thinking that I need to cover every possible route to Bourne, lest a scout slip by and sack the utterly defenseless city? I see you guys talking about using stacks, but it seems like during the initial phase I can never afford to have more than four units in one tile. If I spot an Infernal stack moving for the unguarded north, I don't have time to stop them before a bigger stack shows up, driving for the center. So, I fill every gap, sometimes with a lone hunter on open ground, which feels a little bit like exploiting the AI.
I'm sorry if this reads like a complaint. I was pleasantly surprised to be so challenged by some middle-of-the-story crapshoot, and did feel the need to vent after trying at it for so many hours. However, certain elements of the scenario do seem a bit too impossible. I think that it would be a bit more manageable if the player were able to control the Mercurians directly (with considerably fewer units, even) or if Bourne had just a few in-city defenders from the start (just what happened to the rest of the Radiant Guard mentioned at the start of the scenario? Don't they have any weapons at all?). And what's the deal with those Ira? I mean, what can you even do about them?
The victory screen when you win by betrayal is genuinely a little bit disturbing, and I hope that I can spare my conscience with a bit of practice, but I don't know if I'll be able to do it without the worldbuilder. Thanks!
fireballs are awesome against nightmares.
In response to these two points.
Maelstrom is excellent providing you're using it from cover of a stack, after using it is when you jump out to harass the already injured enemies. Then you get them back in the stack before using Maelstrom on your next turn, although sometimes it may be worth while to take the self inflicted damage to bring down a vulnerable big guy and hope you can get the unit back under cover without losing it.
One thing to keep in mind is any unit you lose has a chance to spawn a defender for Basium, so as long as you've seen the message that one of your units has been reborn as an angel at least once, then letting a few of the weaker & injured demons through is relatively safe. My main goal after seeing this message was to simply Maelstrom all the demons to max damage and take out the big demons (beasts of agres, wraiths, lich's etc...) It cost me quite a few of my units (more potential defenders for Bourne...) but I was confident the Angel's could handle the injured smaller stuff that I let by, I didn't lose the second time so I figure the plan worked.
I beat this scenario.
Basic plan. Stacks of 4 units with a caster with fireball arranged north south with more stacks in center and only 1 at the top. 1 stack to attack coastal city and raize it gaining additional troops. At 100 kills cluster guys and go into survival mode. Save as many guys as you can. March to the next port city and raize it. Then seige the capital untill you have a chance at killing Hyboream the unit.
I took a mage and a few units and spread them north and south. With heavier guys in the middle. I took my hero, a certain mage that could some full water elementals, and 2 boarding parties to capture the port city at the bottom. When you take the city you get a confessor and some champions. Your arcane barges rock! Use them to hurt or wipe out enemy that is close to the shoreline. You dont need to keep a mage by the southernmost stacks because of the boats. (once youve taken the coastal city they become rather useless unless you can capture a worker to build a fortress so the boats can go further east.)
The begining part is simple. Kill 100 Units and take the one coastal city. Keeping a caster with 2-3 units is the best strategy. Use fireball to weaken a stack then radient light to freeze it if it is still too strong. They will keep moving east. You cant let any get through.
The beginning stacks are easy. When you take out the first coastal city for the additional units you should march them back to your greatest concentration of troops. You don't want to have armies all over the place. One big concentration in the center, and a few small clusters on the edges. The enemies that come will continue to get tougher. It is the central stack that will ensure your units survive to heal and fight again. The enemy sends most of the units towards the center. The far top is almost completely ignored and once you raise the bottom city the south gets hit far less.
Once you kill or are really close to killing the 100th enemy Cluster your troops. You get the choice of going evil or good. I went good. Soon large numbers of strong wraiths and all kinds of evil stuff starts hunting down your units. They will pick off any weak stack. I lost my southern and most of my northern units in the first few turns. Once you get your army massed together for safety. March them all south and follow the coast. You don't have to worry about anything else at this point. Let the enemy pass if you can. Focus on upgrading your guys and only expend the summoned units. I took out the 2nd coastal city at this point and was ignored by the enemy untill I reached the capital. Or you can push on to the capital and continue to be assaulted. It depends on how many survivors you have. You need at least 3 casters that can summon things or at least have fireballs. I like water elementals for this. The first one dies creating 2 more you can use that turn. Its like getting 3 for the price of one. Using maelstrom, water elementals and many fireballs i was able to whittle away at the defence enough for my biggest guy left to have a 64% chance against hyboream. I won.
Yup, this was hard. I do not belive I have done it on Emperor by the second run, wow to me.
First attempt ended when one scout of a horsemen slipped through my defence line. Second attempt was a bitter fight I was was sure I have already lost when more and more wraights came at my last stack of defenders.
I won by sending my hero, the archmage, a boarding party and one longbowman to capture that quested city for Capria. The arcane barges helped a lot. Then my stack went to see what the deamons prepared for me as my defense of the middle [by then I noticed the hordes were aiming directly at the city and were focusing on the middle pass] was good. Few turns passed and everything changed. Pit Beasts, infernal rangers, first wraith and on the offense side Iras from the second infernal city with I finally found. With only the hero, archamge, confessor and two hunters that did reckon in the beginning but then I forgot about them [beeing fortified the whole time!] I 'captured' a forested hill and waited for the end. My defence of the middle was so full of holes that I give up mentally. Only then I have noticed I have to kill only 12 units to win! Lucky me, a stack of weak units were just passing by my forward stack so I did a quick hit and run for 3 turns. added some suicidal attacks from the rest of my defenders and bingo....what? Another task?! This was too much for me. I withdrew my defenders to the Basium city, one mage, one radiant guard and one ranger. One more turn without Basium and the wraiths would get me. I have clicked 'end turn' like 20 times but nothing happened. I was counting that the sheer amount of units that Basium spawned each turn will finally win the scenario for me, but it was 3 AM. I saved and moved my hero stack with I thought was too weak to do the job. I wanted only to scout the area so I can do the scenario again. I was lucky and found Hyborem in few turns, yay me again. My hero had City Raider III, combat 5, add to it bless and a fire elemental before the attack and Hyborem was dead. 0.o Impossible has happen
Loved the scenario cause I wont it like that. Would hate it if the hero stack actually did not make it. Maelstorm is not week even after the nerf.
I did not like the map thou. It did not seem like it was a scenario map, but a random scripted thing. It worked in the Momus were randomnes was the point of the scenario but here it did not fit at all. What I aslo would expect is some kind of help from Basium after you save his city. I killed the 100 units but had almost too little units left to do the second objective. The player should get some units in reward for the brave defence that would give him always a chance to achieve the second objective.
I propose that the objectives list how many they are in game interface. Like, it should write '(1 of 2)' next to the text were the number of units to kill lists.
Finally beat it on my third try, but It wasn't like I dominated it. I sent a raiding party to take the quest city and defended the city with everyone else. When I got the bonus troops I continued to Dis with them, a mage, guybrush and a couple others. I was SO close to losing. I was holding the line OK, but then the liches came and since their summons move 4 per turn they were instantly past my line. I quickly tried to finish killing my 100 troops (i had about a dozen left) so that basium would defend himself, i also attacked recklessly to try and have some souls die and defend the city. I simultaneously sent 2 or 3 souls, killed my 100, and defeated hyborem on the same turn that the wraiths would have taken the city. This was only on noble too Not my favorite campaign, but different strokes for different folks.
I also finally beat it (on noble). The keys to my new strategy were:
*Everyone that doesn't already have two moves gets a mobility promotion.
*For the Mages, fireballs+spell extension only. Don't bother with Maelstrom, and metamagic 2 isn't worth it when you could just give your fireballs another level of empowerment. For the Archmage, Water Elementals rule.
*Don't make a move on Bastradam until you have your 100 kills. On Noble at least, there should be plenty of time left before the Bannor take their ball and go home.
*Use Guybrush to kill everything possible. He needs to be strong for when you get to Dis.
Even though the game text said I couldn't move to the west, I was able to. It was pretty easy to defend the city when my units were camped out inside with a wall of stone and water/earth elementals. I think I'm playing on patch i, maybe this is fixed later on. I did not get any reinforcements or the choice to join the demons, probaby because all of my units were in the city when I got my 100th kill. I did get Capria's champions and confessor, which made it a lot of fun to march on Dis after the hordes stopped attacking Basium.
Hyborem also made peace with Basium about half way through, which was interesting. Again, likely the result of me having units in Bourne the Gleaming.
Excellent scenario, I'll probably have to try it again without moving my units into the city...
What is good about water elementals? I liked air elementals because of their range & speed, I liked fire elementals because of their collateral damage, but what benefit does water have besides the water walking? They seemed slow and generally unimpressive, I never bothered with Water III. Should I have?
Well, water elementals split in two if they die, creating 2 more slightly weaker ones. Great for busting large stacks, not so great for killing Hyborem.
On the other hand, am I the only one who moves a bit to the east to hold the 2 passes there and let summons kill every unit? I stack three Radiant Guards with my Archmage and some other units on the tile with the Ancient Tower and kill anything that passes with water or earth Elementals.
I also make a beeline for Bastradam. I find that if you do it early enough, enemies won't even exploit the lack of a Southern defence. Then I ship back a the original units while I have the Bannor troops kill units passing by the area.
First time I played I only lost one Hunter (it was on prince though, I didn't know what to expect).
Second time, I lost a boarding party to a few stray Wraiths. Usually if you pull back with your archmage stack by the time the Liches get close you can blind all the wraiths while they slog through the forested hills with the river running by them.
I never even got any units except Guybrush above level 3. I also killed Hyborem with a Law Bringer. 30% odds and I didn't think he would win. I love those random kills like that!
finally (third try) I managed this one (patch o)
no cheating but knowledge of the map.
My strategy was pretty simple :
one main city taking stack, one main unit killing stack, a few scattered defensive units.
most of the 100 kills were so by defensive units + fireballs from the unit killing stack and the arcane barges.
at some point, I had 6 units left to kill; I had already done banor's little extra task and all my unit killing stack (including the mages) got killed, as well as most my defensive units (one radiant guard was left). I saw a lot of infernal troops cruising to the city I was supposed to defend, and saw nothing I could do against it, so I moved my city killing stack as fast as possible (body mage!) to dis and completed both tasks (killing 100 then killing hyborem with those before doom striked.
Not too proud of this one but a victory is a victory.
Did anyone manage this one without foreknowledge of the map? (meaning on the first try)
looks like I managed to break this little scenario
..That is, sent my "core" troops to whatever that southern city is, razed it, moved east, razed that city, moved north to Hyborem's city.
Killed Hyborem with some ~10 units to go on the "kill 100"
killed the remaining necessary troops... And was then asked to "defeat Hyborem", which didn't quite work out.
It also seems a bit counterintuitive that suiciding (sending them in with low odds to get them killed) a bunch of Radiant Guard troops is a good idea, to be sure you can miss a few infernals slipping through.
I actually beat this the first time through on Emperor... part of it was being really cautious I suppose as some of you have mentioned (really agonizing over my first moves, to make sure I lost no units). I didn't even know where Bourne was though... so imagine my surprise when I was sweeping east, killing enemies, but some were walking by - "hmm, where are those guys headed - OH..." I remember one radiant guard following a stack of like 3 guys for about 20 turns (cause I had sent everyone east from the start) casting every turn to slow them down - in the end I think a couple random units got by but the city survived.
So, I had sent my ships and a small force (hunters, a mage) to Bastradam very early - but then the Ira's showing up like mad deterred me from that (they killed all my ships!). When I knew what was going on I rallied everyone back to the middle to protect the city/beat the 100, and was pretty sucessful (air elementals for killing the lichs, once I figured out where they were summoning all the units from) and then came the twist I was half expecting (this was after playing the Blood of Angels scenario I think - where I "thought" killing the Bannor would end it and "hey, go kill this other guy" so I was expecting something was up here. But I figured Basium could protect himself then, one big super stack just marched on (summons and spells + highly upgraded Guy and Arquebus made me basically invincible), took Bastradam (lol'd at the reward at that point) and on to Kill Hyborem.
Overall I thought this was good, very much encouraging tactical thinking - maybe the one tough thing was that people would be expecting it to end at 100 kills, if they didn't save their units the first time through. Also, the hellfires springing up were cool - I hadn't seen those before but made a top priority to send elementals to raize them so there were fewer demon spawns.
I beat the scenario by turning against Basium and crushing him with Hyborem, but the it just said that Hyborem had won a conquest victory. I think i have the latest patch. Anybody know whats up?
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