The Raven Guard [new civ concept]

[HadesScorn]

So, until Kael releases a 3.19 compatible version of FfH, I am without my fix. As Prototype has not finished downloading, I finally got around to transcribing a concept I've been bandying around with for a few months for a new civ. Looking for some feedback on them as well as any volunteers for artwork/modding.

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The Raven Guard

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Raven Guard Origins

One of the beauties of FfH is the ability to truly role-play with a civilization. Feeling particularly evil spirited? Calabim may slack your thirst. Want to slowly crush your enemies because you're a little short tempered? Try the Khazad, my Napoleonic friend.

Want to give the middle finger to the Gods? Well, you could....

Crap.

Sure, there's the Grigori. While paying lip service to agnosticism, they really are a “live-and-let-live” civilization at heart. Religion can still spread through your lands, you simply can't gain any real benefits from it. And still having access to Theology? Yeah, not that big of a fan.

So I started thinking, what would I feel if I was a knowledgeable citizen in the Age of Rebirth? Society is barely recovering from the last theological blunder, and everyone and their aunt is racing towards Armageddon. I wouldn't have the shotgun to go with it [Blasting Powder not having been invented for another thousand turns], but I would be very tempted to shout “Get off my damn lawn, you darn gods!”

Even the Grigori seek the return of The One. Let's see, wasn't he the ultimate God who decided to walk away from creation when he made a mistake rather than fix it? Granted, I and most of creation wouldn't exist if he had fought the rebels then and there, but frankly its a matter of principle. No Altar for you, buddy.

Enter a bizarre dream [an excellent sign that it's time to take a break from your current game] and a feverish writing spree at 2 AM only a week after reporting for duty at Fort Knox. I may post the write-up down the road if there's interest, but suffice it to say that a group of determined Atheist/Deist assassins trying to take down Perpentach gave me what I needed to start the design process.

The outline of the civ is below, and the third post will be filled out slowly over time with some of the lore I've been developing. The Raven Guard is still very much a work in progress, so comment suggest and criticize as you see fit. I may even listen.

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Why Ravens?

Ravens are one of the most intelligent species of birds. They are numerous and opportunistic. They thrive wherever human habitation expands and in many sense are ideal – feeding off of parasites, pests and garbage. In the universe of FfH, it is easy to see them enhanced ever so slightly into a full symbiotic relationship with mankind.

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Current Heraldry

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Things I'm looking for suggestions for:
Balancing of Mechanics
Artwork
Modding Help
Someone who can edit in the Raven Guard Heraldic Banner"

 

[HadesScorn]

The Raven Guard

An “Atheist” Deist civilization for FfH: FF

Civilization Traits:
1.Atheist

Spoiler :

a)Unable to found religions.
b)Religions cannot spread in RG cities.
c)Unable to adopt Theocracy civic
d)Unable to adopt Religion civic
e)Unable to adopt God King civic
f)Unable to assign Priest Specialists
g)Great Scientists and Science specialists receive +1 Research.
h)Unable to build AoL [cannot generate Great Prophets anyways].​

2.Creative

Spoiler :

a)Reflects the RG society and empowers their Cultural Defenders, preventing new cities from being quickly taken down before they can build a monument.
b)Helps counter the loss of culture from not being able to spread Religion or build temples.​

Mechanics:
1.No access to adepts, Mages or Archmages

Spoiler :

a)The Raven Guard fiercely oppose all interference by the Gods with Erebus. One of the oldest meddlings was Agares' creation of the planes of Mana. All use of Mana, for 'good' or 'evil' is against the best interests of Mankind as shown in the original intentions of The One. Mages are to be hunted down and killed, and Mana nodes destroyed.
b)Researching down the Magic tree will unlock the Wizard Hunter unit tree. Wizard Hunter have relatively low strength compared to other RG UUs, but receive bonuses against magic and some unique promotions.​

2.No access to Religion.

Spoiler :

a)The Raven Guard has rejected all claims by Gods and Angels. Only the One was ever worthy of worship. When he abandoned Creation following Agares' betrayal, he lost the right to worship.
b)Researching down the Religion tree will unlock the Agnostic unit tree. Agnostics function like inquisitors, and can remove religions from cities. They have access to the Command promotions.​

3.Access to the Raven Resource

Spoiler :

a)The Raven Guard have a symbiotic relationship with their namesake. Once a Rook is constructed, Ravens assist the local inhabitants by warning of pests and predators, increasing the food output significantly. More commoners settle in the ares, providing a production bonus. Tourists also visit from the RG cities, increasing the local commerce.
b)Ravens are considered a good omen in the RG culture, providing a +1 Happy.
c)Ravens consume many pests within city limits, providing a +1 Healthy.​

4.National Limits on all units.

Spoiler :

a)The Raven guard is an insular society, seeing all other civilizations [with the possible exception of the Grigori] as following false Gods. As such, they do not seek to expand through war. Their society is adapt at defending itself, however few are willing to approach the lands belonging to other civilizations. The national limit of 4 units is enforced for all buildable units.​

5.Un-pillagable

Spoiler :

a)Raven companions are able to warn the local defenders of all moves by an invading army. Hence, they can harass potential pillagers without exposing themselves to counter-attacks. Raven Guard improvements cannot be pillaged. [This is intended to balance the National Limit mechanic]​

6.Cultural Defenders

Spoiler :

a)All Raven Guard cities populate Defenders based on the city's cultural level, reflecting the local enthusiasm for RG culture inspiring citizens to join the militia. An additional defender pops every time the cultural border expands.
b)Should a Defender+ be killed, new Defenders [base unit] will spawn the next turn so that the city has the proper number.
c)This mechanic is intended to allow the RG to defend their lands against aggressors without providing them an undue bonus. Each unit starts as a base unit, requiring significant gold to equal the strength of the more modern units. However, access to all metal upgrades means that Defenders will still be able to wear down an invading army. The base unit has a strength of 3, but with Mithril weapons defends at a 7 with City Garrison I for a strength of 8.75, able to face an un-promoted Champion on equal footing. RG's inability to build these en masse for offense prevents them from being over-powered, while their respawn mechanic means an invading army needs to capture each city in one turn, or face fresh Defenders on the next.​

7.Raven Guard

Spoiler :

a)The living ideal of their society, Raven Guard UUs are dedicated to combating the influence of the supernatural on Erebus.
b)Raven Guard UUs are limited to 1 per RG city.
c)The main offensive strength of the RG civilization, Raven Guards receive several bonuses and perks, but are expensive to build and cannot be rushed.​

UUs:
1.Wizard Hunter

Spoiler :

a)Starting Tech KotE. Wizard Hunter > Wizard Slayer > Wizard's Bane at Mage Upgrade Points
b)Built in cities containing a Brassmoon Dungeon
c)Starting strength 4. Each Promo gains 2 additional strength.
d)Wizard Hunters+ are able to perform “Rite of Cleansing” on Mana nodes inside RG cultural borders. This destroys the Mana node and grants all future Wizard Hunters+ the Empower I promotion. Each Mana node destroyed increases this bonus until Empower V. Subsequent Mana node destruction results in a large boost in research similar to the Ogmha event.
e)Wizard Hunters receive Improved Magic Resistance to reflect their ability to resist the spells directed against them by their targets. Offers 50% Magic Resistance. This allows the subsequent promotions to render Wizard Slayers immune to Magic types.
f)Unit Tree receives 100% strength vs summons.
g)Unit Tree receives 20% strength when fighting Amurites and Khadi.
h)Wizard Slayers can perform Rite of Cleansing in unclaimed territory.
i)Wizard's Bane gain the ability to perform Rite of Cleansing on Mana Nodes in enemy territory.​

2. Librarian

Spoiler :

a)Starting Tech Mysticism. Librarian > Archivist > Enlightened at Priest Upgrade Points
b)Build in cities containing Social Halls
c)Starting Strength 6. Each Promo gains 2 strength.
d)Librarian+ are able to perform Inquisition in cities controlled by RG. Archivists gain the ability to perform Inquisition in cities controlled by AI that the RG have a Defensive Pact or Alliance with. Enlightened can perform Inquisition on Holy Cities and remove them. This will pop a Great Scientist and will cause all civilizations that follow the religion to permanently declare war on the RG.
e)Has access to the Command Promotion. Any unit that follows a Religion is destroyed if it would be converted.
f)Receives 100% strength vs Disciple Promotion, Religious Heroes​

3.Defender

Spoiler :

a)No tech requirements. Defender > Guard > Paragon at the melee upgrades.
b)Strength equal to standard Melee line.
c)All Defenders+ have access to all metal promotions.
d)Defenders spawn with City Garrison I. Guards automatically gain City Garrison II. Paragons gain City Garrison III.
e)Can utilize “Train” ability.
f)Permanently Held​

4.Raven Guard

Spoiler :

a)Available at Writing. Raven Guard > Raven Companion [Writing + Mathematics] > Raven Champion [Mithril Weapons].
b)Strength 6 / 9 / 12
c)Access to metal promotions. Only Champions can use Mithril.
d)Limit 1 per city. Possibly scaled based on map size?
e)High hammer cost. Guard is 150% of an Axman, Companion is 150% of a standard Champion, Raven Champion is 150% of a Phalanx.
f)Access to all Melee and Hero promotions [with the exception of Mage or Priest specific promos]
g)Starts with Courage and Loyalty Promotions.
h)Access to Medic Promotions
i)The only offensive unit the RG can build in large numbers. The high hammer cost should discourage city spam to raise the unit limit.
j) Raven Champion gains temporary Immortality [ala Losha Vales] every time it kills a disciple unit.
​

Heroes:
1.Hitchcock

Spoiler :

a)Available at Animal Mastery
b)Strength 1, Held, Immortal
c)Can be released from Held for 1000 gold [scaled to map size/speed]
d)“Storm at Sea”: Gains 2 strength per Raven Resource [scaled to map size] and crazed promotion​

2.Arch Historian Gregory

Spoiler :

a)Available at Theology
b)Strength 10; Magic Immune; Immune to Disease; +100% vs Demons, Angels and Undead; +50% vs Arcane and Disciple
c)Gains the Immortal promotion after killing a disciple unit.
d)“Grand Symposium” can be cast in any neutral city. City loses 2 population and enters Unrest for 10 turns. Creates 1 Great Scientist, 1 Great Engineer, 1 Great Bard. Civ enters Permawar with Raven Guard. Destroys Arch Historian Gregory [Immortality saves?]​

UBs:
1.Raven Guard Palace

a)Standard Palace bonuses.
b)For each Mana node destroyed, RG Palace receives +1 Research.
c)Access to Raven, Marble and Wine resources​

2.Brassmoon Dungeon

a)Buildable at KotE. Replacement for Adept Guild
b)-1 Research, +2 production. Enables Wizard Hunter tree.​

3.Social Hall

a)Buildable at Mysticism. Replacement for Monument.
b)+2 Culture. Enables Agnostics unit tree.
c)Upgrades at each religious tech to provide an additional +1 culture.​

4.City Rook

a)Buildable at Animal Handling. Provides all units built in the city with Sentry I. Feral Bond provides Sentry II. Animal Mastery grants Perfect Sight.​

New Features:
1.Raven resource

a)Can build Rook.
b)+1 Happy, +1 Healthy
c)Required to build Raven Guard UU
d)Can spawn on Forested tiles on Hills, Grassland and Plains
e)Only visible to the Raven Guard​

2.Rook

a)Buildable on Raven resource
b)+2 Commerce, +1 Food, +1 Hammer
c)Builable at Animal Handling
d)Provides an additional +1 Food, +1 Hammer at Animal Mastery
e)Provides +1 Commerce at Feral Bond
f)End result: Grassland provides 4 Food, 3 Commerce, 2 Hammers.
Plains provides 3 Food, 3 Commerce, 3 Hammers
Plains Hills provides 2 Food, 3 Commerce, 5 Hammers
Grassland Hills provides 3 Food, 3 Commerce, 4 Hammers​

3.Train

a)Ability available to Defenders+
b)Costs 200 gold
c)Provides the unit Cover I, Formation I, Shock I​

4. Rite of Cleansing

a) Ability available to Wizard Hunters+
b)Destroys existing mana node and creates the improvement Blocked Node
c) Lasts for 25/50/75/100 turns
d)Mana nodes in neutral or enemy territory convert back to raw mana at the end.
e)Mana nodes in Raven Guard territory are destroyed at the end.
f)Performing this in owned territory puts the civilization at Permawar with the RG.​

 

[HadesScorn]

Raven Guard Lore

[Pieces Posted as I feel like it. Quality not ensured.]

Raven Guard Lore

[Flavor for Paragon UU]

Spoiler :

I listened to the sounds of chanting, as I had every night of my life. The dead had been buried, and the Order had begun their latest inquisition to determine how the walls had been breached. It was soothing and proper. After all, did not Sabathiel protect us from the Clan? If the Order did not discover the traitors in our midst, we would all be dead or worshiping the Veil...which would be worse. When Gods struggle, man must seek shelter and comfort from those who wish him well...

But that night, I had a dream. I was soaring through the air over Erebus. I crossed the water without the help of Gods or Magic. I crossed the mountains without aid of Dragons or Angels. I saw the mouse on the ground and the farmer in his field and the fires of man...I saw it all through the eyes of the Raven.

I saw in my dream a beautiful world, where no God walked on the surface of Erebus, where no Angel judged the living or the dead. Where there had NEVER been an Age of Ice...

A World in which man was free to live and fight and love as he pleased, rather than by the dictates of the supernatural. Armageddon did not threaten his very existence, nor persecution ensure his survival.

Where no blood dripped down altars every second of every day, and no gold flowed into the coffers of the Church to never return.

I soared higher with my flock, and marveled at what I saw. Man pulled gold from the ground without the blessings of a fickle deity. Trees grew without prayer into marvelous forests and jungles. Deserts stretched for miles without a single portal to Agares' Hell...

No Mages roamed the land, drawing on the stolen essence of creation to warp the laws of man or nature. No Priests converted people with sword and voice. No Overlords jealously guarded the Sea, wrecking the ships of those who did not curry their favor.

And when I woke, I wept, for I knew this world could never be.

At least, not within my lifetime...

And then the Raven came for me.

~Davil Paeterson, Paragon[ret], Rook Master

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[Flavor for Enlightened UU]

Spoiler :

Sabathiel's Chamber

He paced in front of the awning, watching his city burn.

“We must remove ourselves to the new Capital. They will soon breach the last of our defenses.”

Behind him, the minister nodded. The riots had begun with the arrival of crudely printed pamphlets. Their author was unknown, but their origin was not. Raven Guard drivel at its best, decrying his rule and poisoning the population. The enemy had arrived soon after, sweeping past his border cities and striking straight at the heart of his empire.

“How can they do this? Do they not understand that without me, the Clan will sweep over their lands? The Veil creeps from the North, the Wolf rides in from the East. Yet still they challenge me. What madness has overcome them?”

Quietly, the minister spoke.

“No doubt it is madness. How can they stand against us? Only a year ago we converted them town by town to Junil. We brought his light to their cities.”

Sabathiel grimaced as a fresh plume of fire arose from the courthouse.

“We taught them his mercy, and this is how they repay us...it is almost as if they resent it.”

“Exactly! No gratitude, no uniting against our common foe...”

“Almost as if they resent the burning of the heretic..and the unbeliever. As if they mourned for the ones who were killed by the demagogues for the crime of speaking against your rule, mourned for daughters and uncles burned at the stake for daring to say that the Gods War did not concern them.”

Sabathiel's brow furrowed.

“Almost as if they saw no difference between the Clan slaughtering their people and our troops doing the same. The louts! Do they not know that our genocide has a noble purpose? An end state of one people under one banner who crush any and all with different views? Who hold the Gods in higher esteem than the welfare of the common man?”

The angel turned.

“Daring to retaliate against any who attack them! Setting mankind as equal to the machinations of alien beings who hold their ideals more important than the survival of mankind?”

Sabathiel drew his blade and struck before his minister could blink. The pool of blood slowly grew on the floor as the rebel gasped his last words.

“Your people know the truth now. It is only a matter of time before they all turn against you...”

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[Flavor for Hitchcock Hero]

Spoiler :

Shiny pebbles, shiny rock
Do this beast's madness unlock
A storm at sea drives him in
Lives to steal and souls to win

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[WarKirby]

Sounds like you might want to try playing with the Mechanos in FFPlus. The similarities are very close

 

[Randomness]

Sounds interesting, for defenders, aprox. how much culture to one unit, does it go by the culture tiers, or is it simpley linked to certain numbers?

 

[HadesScorn]

Randomness- for now, the concept is one defender for every Culture Tier. This makes it fairly easy to reach two defenders, but impossible to create a defending stack of doom. Frankly, if all the Gods on Erebus decide to side against the Raven Guard at once, they're screwed.

Warkirby- There are some mechanic similarities to the Mechanos. However, the flavor I'm aiming for is a group of un-repentant anti-theists rather than Steampunk. I want to create a civ whose genuine goal is the elimination of outside influence on Erebus rather than the UN-styled Grigori. There are a couple of fantasy books that deal with a similar design that I'm struggling to remember.

Also, does anyone know how to get this forum to accept formatting of posts? I like things nice and tabbed and whatnot, and I'd rather not start having to insert html codes into my word documents before I paste them here.

 

[WarKirby]

Hmm, looking over it, I would say it has too many UUs. it seems a bit unfocused.

You seem determined to have 3 different stages of every type of unit. I wonder why?
The raven guard units sound a bit powerful. A limit of 1 per city isn't really much of a drawback, since you usually have 5-6 cities before real wars start, and 5-6 unit sof that strength would overrun just about anything. Multiple Str12 units at mathematics would be too powerful, I think.

 

[Deon]

I highly like the flavour. However the melee str. line should be "a bit" balanced. I'd say, less str. but at least 2 units per city. 1 unit per city is really nothing in small multiplayer maps for example. 2-3 tsunami or rings of flame and it's dead by usual unit. It means no chance to capture anything, and Raven is Chislev UU without any resource.

 

[Deon]

Ehm, the only problem I see are ravens. Austrin already have a very close relation to ravens and birds as well as the wind.

 

[HadesScorn]

Warkirby - Three of every unit is keeping to the standard upgrade path. Adepts, Mages and Archmages; Disciple, Priest and High Priest; Warrior, Axman, Champion, etc.

Yes, Mathematics is too early for them, however no Civ means no ability to go into Civilopedia and find a better tech [Xienwolf's manual is lacking descriptions of tech at the moment]. I'm debating whether to allow Raven Guard to build Immortals or Phalanxes, right now the answer is no. In which case they could be moved to one of those techs for the final upgrade, and the strength would be acceptable. Perhaps move the starting tech to Writing, and the middle tech to mathematics. Assuming those changes, would it be more balanced?

Three UU lines replacing standard unit lines doesn't seem terribly much to me, and to get the civilization feel that I want I need to block those unit lines. Seems only fair to grant a replacement.

Deon- I tend to play on Huge Maps, Marathon Difficulty [never had any crashes, yay gaming PC!]. So the limit was intended with that in mind. Perhaps scale their spawning to map size? Three per city for Tiny Maps, two per city for Normal Maps, one per city for Huge?

No intention to create an actual Raven unit. The Raven Guard would never risk their birds in direct combat due to their almost totemic reverence for them. The resource represents a large scale domestication and utilization on the scale of Hippus Horses.

For the Austrin, never played them in FF, so I wasn't aware of the close relationship they had. Hopefully, the lore differs in other areas enough.

Regarding Magic, I'm debating having Wizard Slayers gaining an ability to grant the standard Magic Resistance to units in their stack with it wearing off every turn. This would help to prevent Mage-Doom to some extent, but the limitations on the Wizard Hunter numbers would prevent universal defense.

Thank you both for the feedback. On an unrelated note, Prototype is awesome and will likely eat most of my [little] free time until Kael upgrades FfH. I'll pop in when I can.

 

[Valkrionn]

To be honest, just reading the description I thought about the Mechanos, but after reading the mechanics it seems more like they'd be allies, but distinctly different. I like it quite a bit.

 

[WarKirby]

No intention to create an actual Raven unit. The Raven Guard would never risk their birds in direct combat due to their almost totemic reverence for them. The resource represents a large scale domestication and utilization on the scale of Hippus Horses.

Oh, come on. You can't not have a raven unit.

Give it the ability to peck at enemies for small amounts of damage, like the Chislev Rock Ravens

 

[HadesScorn]

Valkrionn- Dang, now I want to get FfH working again so I can Modmod to FF and ModModMod to FF+ Had been playing base FfH before Patch Doom following your initial release when I enjoyed a fun Amurite game. Any links to their Lore on the boards? I searched a bit but couldn't find more than unit descriptions an a general feel that they take on the world in which they find themselves?

Warkirby- heh. No, I'd like the artwork to incorporate ravens into most of the UUs, but I can't see an intelligent bird deciding to attack an armored man without many many shiny baubles being offered...

Hmm... I can see a civ hero coming from this.

Hero:

Hitchcock
Available at Animal Mastery. Once built, can be released from Held by paying 1000 gold [or possibly 100 gold times Raven Resources].
Strength 1
Flying, Immortal
Ability "Storm at Sea". Grants Hitchcock strength equal to the number of Raven Resources RG currently has multiplied by a modifier based on map size; along with the Crazed Promotion. Hitchcock resets to his starting status [Strength 1, Held] when killed.



Extra points if anyone gets my lame references.

 

[Deon]

Wow, 1000 gold every time for 4-5 str unit? I'd buy a hell load of archmages with it...

 

[Honor]

Maybe twice the number of Raven Resources? Plus making the cost scale with Hitchcock strength.

 

[HadesScorn]

Again, when I come up with numbers they largely are based on my playstyle - Huge Map, Marathon difficulty, and of course I am somewhat used to playing with Double Resources, Double Events.

Scaling the cost would be a good idea, no idea how hard it would be to manage in XML. Having a multiplier based on map size could be a good idea as well.

Of course, right now He's mainly a joke, but one that I like until I come up with a serious hero.

 

[Tasunke]

You should make an extra Champion UU "Blood-Raven" with red plated armor. Perhaps wielding an Axe in one hand and a mini-crossbow in the other. (another Raven-Guard unit)

WitchHunters sound good as the Magic replacement, I s'pose.

As for your Religious replacement, 100% vs disciple promotion n relig heroes is more inclusive than simply priests n relig heroes.

Also, I recommend name for tier II or III to be "Librarian" and to be able to Inquisition any city he sits in. Further more, a spell called "Brain Drain" while sitting in a rival city. Lowers said city population by two, steals that civ's research for this turn (assuming 100% research) with chance of war declaration.

Perhaps something like Page-> Archivist -> Librarian

I have an idea for the hero ArchHistorian Gregory -> immune to magic, +100% vs demon, undead, and angel, immune to disease, +50% vs arcane and disciple, and given his speech ettiqit being rivaling that of the soothesayer Stephanos, his ability is "Grand Symposium" which acts like the empyrean blinding spell, freezing enemy units, as they contemplate the error of their ways in light of the Historian's insightful discussion. He gains the immortality promo every time he kills a disciple unit.

Also, please please please plz plz plz plz ... as many referrences to "the Chapter" in the pedia as possible.

 

[Deon]

I don't agree about Axe in 1 hand and crossbow in 2nd concept. They won't be able to fight this way . If they drew the mini-crossbow out for first strikes only, it would be okay.

 

[HadesScorn]

Deon- Tasunke is referencing the Blood Ravens from Warhammer 40k. I must say, I like it. Kinda embarrassed I didn't think of the connection myself.

Tasunke- a good point on the priest replacement. I'll adjust to reflect it.

While Brain Drain sounds interesting, not entirely certain that it fits the intended lore. Not certain how the population loss would reflect their attempts at intellectual conversion.

Archistorian sounds interesting, only a few concerns. First, Immortality does not work from a standard FfH standpoint. When the Raven Guard die, no God will seek to reincarnate them. Can you come up with a lore explanation for his "immortality"?

I'll definitely consider putting in some sly references to 40k as I can.

I do like Librarian and Archivist as unit names. It fits the RG better than the old names as they can't exactly NOT believe in Gods. Librarians have encountered the true knowledge of Erebus' history, while Archivists are capable of engaging in debate against the followers of other Gods.

 

[Tasunke]

There is a clan of hidden elite medics led by the Apothecary. Their job is to take important leaders from battle during times of great wounds or near death.

As long as the ArchHistorian fulfills his goal of lessing the God's influence, the Mediciah will fulfill their role in getting him to safety