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The Really Real Eagle Tribe

Discussion in 'Eagles' started by Cyc, Nov 15, 2010.

?

Pick your Tribe!

Poll closed Nov 20, 2010.
  1. Byzantines

    75.0%
  2. Japan

    25.0%
  1. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    We have a major split between the Byzantines and the Japanese, as far as who will be our Tribe for this Fall and Winter game. The other 3 Tribes only received one vote each and will not be included in this run-off.

    1. Byzantines
    2. Japan

    This is a public poll and will be open for 5 days (unless we receive 11 or so votes and see a clear winner. Or are pressed by the other three teams for an answer). The quicker we vote, the quicker we can move on. Single option only and once again, no ABSTAIN.
     
  2. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Pros for Byzantines ~ Once MapMaking is researched, the Dromon will rule the seas until Magnetism. We will be able to start our GA at will practically. An early Golden Age will allow us to expand quicker and research faster in the AA. Definitely an early boost. There would also be the extra commerce from the coastal areas. Plus a free tech as we enter the MA and the IA. And... cheap Libraries.

    Pros for Japan ~ Cheap Barracks and cheap Temples are both good to have. The Statue of Zeus will get us an early GA or we can wait for the Samurai. A later GA is always good. Cheap Temples will be like placing an extra luxury in a city, early cheap Temples will make us a Cultural threat to be reckoned with. Cheap barracks mean early vet units. The Samurai is a good mid-point unit between Swords and Cavs.

    I'm playing a practice game with the game settings using the Byzantines, Japan, Carthage, and France. I've gotten to the 3 city mark and France and Carthage are in the lead. :( The Byzantines are ahead of last place Japan. :( I'm seriously thinking about changing my vote to the Byzantines.
     
  3. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    Additional pro for Japan - No anarchy between government switches.
     
  4. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Ah. Excellent point. I had forgotten about No or little Anarchy. That is a biggie.
     
  5. Calis

    Calis on time

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    One turn of anarchy...
     
  6. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Especially I would do everything to get the Great Lighthouse in this case. With a movement of 5, safe sea travel and lethal bombardment, they are unstoppable until steal boats, not only Magnetism. (Ok, movement would get reduced by one with Magnetism).

    I am not so fond of temples to be honest. The one content citizen is not that great, as we already know that we are going to have luxs in a not too far distance. The culture we will get with libraries as the Byzantines. And IF our opponent on the same continent will be aggressive, Samurais may come too late and we have to fight with standard units anyway. In this cae, i Would love to see our dromons, clear the seas from any enemy navy.

    Go ahead... :D
     
  7. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    Then, it appears that the Civ3 Conquests reference file has a mistake in it. :sad:
     
  8. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    During war, I would suspect that a human opponent on the same continent would avoid transporting units on ships as a way to counter the dromon threat. So, there may not be as many targets available as there would be when playing against the AI.
     
  9. Calis

    Calis on time

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    I was not talking about the opponents on our continent. But keeping other from exploring the seas, might be helpful.
     
  10. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Furthermore, I'd say that with the Byzantines we could get a good shot at Philosophy. Then going for Literature and self-research Republic a.s.a.p.
     
  11. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, it's another one of those grey areas you find with Civ3. It used to be that Religious Tribes experienced NO Anarchy and went right into the next form of government. Now standard is you revolt, click end turn, and on the next turn you go into your next form of government. But the game will also make you wait an extra turn sometimes. So you'd revolt, click end turn, check the Domestic Advisor and she'd say "out of Anarchy in 1 turn".

    So, it used to be no turns, then it's one turn (which the game sees as no turns), or it can be 2 turns (which the game sees as 1 turn). This would be looked at as reduced Anarchy. With Sid it's always a case of semantics. Usually the player is on the losing end of the conversation.
     
  12. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, there's a problem with that. Even though I like to get into a Republic as quickly as possible in my games, we will be wanting to use our Dromons into the MA. If we are a Republic and need to sink a wandering vessel from another Tribe, we will just be hurting ourselves with War Weariness. If other Tribes won't grant us peace, we will suffer.

    Of course if you're looking at the game as a peaceful trading partner with other Tribes, then the Dromon is pretty much a Galley. Either you're playing for the Dromon or you're playing for a Republic. You can't have your cake and eat it too. :)
     
  13. Eclipse4449

    Eclipse4449 Deity

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    There is another substantial gain using the Byzantines' Dromon I realized playing against them previously. It is reasonable that an early invasion could consist of just a few ships and if this is early enough the possibility of gaining a foothold on our coast is possible. But if you focus on the Dromon as a deterrent to such invasions this forces the enemy to create far more units and more galleys to transport them plus several more galleys as bate or diversions giving us more time to cultivate the land. This translates to a lot of unit support cost for the invaders while we on the other hand use this cost on workers (which add to city population when they are need to.
    When the enemy can not gain access to your coast or if he tries he losses a boat load of units his frustration level elevates while the Byzantines pay near zero for unit upkeep and remains calm and focused.

    Sorry didn't see the entry about whom we'll share our continent with? A friendly i hope?

    Anyway I'm not a great empire builder like some of you but having said that I must have figured out ways to compensate for that or who would play a game that you constantly loose:)

    So I hope I'm not going off in the wrong direction here assuming we share the land with a friendly we can utilize to great extent the most powerful unit in the game "the worker", the second the Dromon as a scout and reactionary force, training only the units needed to keep cities policed while this by far not the case with most other civs.

    The gains in research for those good at it will love the extra gold. In a pinch workers completing far more jobs than the others tribes can manipulate the economy like diving into a city to make it bigger to complete a wonder or crank out units we will need to counter the current threat. While this is going on our enemy has produced many units of all kinds slowing their economy.

    And we then hope for a great invasion where our Dromons defeat the flotilla, then we build units, board our Dromons and visit a less fortified and cultivated continent.
     
  14. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    We don't know who we share our continent with yet. It might be a friendly team or it might be a team that wants to destroy us early.
     
  15. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I haven't decided yet, btw.

    If we go Byz, we start with spears, which is good, and alphabet, which gives us a leg up on writing/philo, especially with the bonus we get for coastal cities.

    I doubt we'll find kicking of our GA with dromons as easy as portrayed. I'd guess that most people build a curragh or two for exploration, but no other navy until they invade.

    On the other hand, MoM is just 200 shields and should kick it off on it's own.

    Japan would almost require a strategy of beelining chiv,then switching to fuedalism to pop-rush barracks and a bunch of samurai. Not necessarily a bad plan, mind you.
     
  16. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, 7 of the 13 citizens with access have voted at this point. Let's see what the others say.
     
  17. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I'm looking at the game as a peaceful exchange of knife attacks and groin kicks. Lots of blood and pain.


    On the UUs
    A Samuri can defend us well, but a Dromon can give us control of the sea, both on offense and defense. The question of which UU is best depends on when we expect to use it.

    However, a Dromon could be used against us too, by an enemy trying to force us into our Golden Age before we are ready for it, since it would be exposed longer. To do this same on us with a Samuri would not be as effective, since by then our core would be pretty well developed.
     
  18. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    All good points. Although I do use Temples and I don't use Feudalism. Of course, I don't play on tiny maps either. And this is a tiny map.

    I don't believe, unless we're just going to use the Dromon as a Galley, that we would have to worry about another nation starting our GA early. As far as I can see, the Dromon would be use to conrtol the seas. Intimidation only goes so far. Do you really think you can scare these teams away from your shores with this unit? If you don't use it to attack, it's just a raft with a strange figurehead. It will be an early GA.
     
  19. CharlemagneXLII

    CharlemagneXLII Prince

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    Don't forget the lethal sea bombardment, this makes the dromon continue to be useful well after magnetism. It's probably academic, but I wonder if bombarding a galley to the bottom of the sea will start a GA.
     
  20. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    You've never played the Byzantines?
     

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