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The Redcoat - Great unit or GREATest unit?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Crazygaijin, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Crazygaijin

    Crazygaijin Chieftain

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    I've been playing at Emperor level for about 6 weeks and it looks like I'm finally on my way to my first victory. I tried the Pretorian slaughter strategy that worked on lower levels, but found myself bogged down by an over expanded empire and ruined economy. This time, as Liz (Phil?Fin) I focused on building early wonders and reaping the benefits of huge numbers of GP and building my empire; waiting for the early industrial age to go out and warmonger. It is for this reason I feel the Redcoat rules! Here's why: #1 - The early industrial period is a great time to wage war, as opposed to earlier ages when you have to have to rely on mixed forces, or hard to come by Ivory or Horses. Also, like I said before, my production was focused on Wonder building. #2 - They slaughter mounted units as well as Riflemen, rendering the AI's standing army of old units usless. Building them with Barracks and Theocracy allows you to start them with Pinch (2/3 of stack) or City Defender 2 for garrisons (1/3 of stack) #3 - The anti-rifleman unit (Grenadier), as far as I can tell, does not receive it's 50% attack bonus versus Redcoats because they're not Riflemen. The only problem with these guys is that their usefulness is limited by the appearance of Infantry which are sometimes not too far behind, depending on how far along some AI's techs may be.
    Does anyone else have an opinion of what special units rule, when, and why?
     
  2. HectorSpector

    HectorSpector Chieftain

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    Quecha are the best, because they look a lot nicer than warriors.
     
  3. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

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    Redcoats are of the "rifleman" class too, so the Grenadier still gets the bonus. Notice that it's an "attack" bonus, so if you're the one attacking the Grenadier it won't apply.
     
  4. _alphaBeta_

    _alphaBeta_ King

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    As I've said on numerous occasions, I consider the redcoat to be the strongest UU. Unlike the other UUs, the redcoat has no counter-unit during its era.

    People go crazy for Praetorians, but they'd think differently if the AI defended their cities with axeman. I'm on the Samurai kick lately, but I'd think differently about them if the AI defended their cities with crossbowmen.

    In the case of the redcoat, what are you going to defend yourself with? Other rifleman? Don't think so - redcoats are 2 higher and have a built in bonus against gunpowder units. Even Grenadiers, the unit specifically designed to bring down rifleman units (redcoat is a rifleman for purposes of combat), can't take down an upgraded redcoat. When faced with redcoats you better have superior numbers or favorable terrain. With the other UUs, you just need to have the correct counter-unit waiting.

    Of course a lot depends on the player and when they usually like to start their warmongering. The redcoast isn't terribly useful if you like to start eliminating civs when swordsmen come on the scene.
     
  5. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    Can't everything thats said about Redcoats be said about Cossacks as well? They did own the one did use them but now I moved onto Warlords where they're not so great anymore.
     
  6. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    Redcoats are great, even though they have been nerfed in Warlords. There is nothing that is really that great at taking them down due to their increase in strength over the regular riflemen, and if you upgrade Macemen that have CR promotions, then most, if not all cities will fall with very little trouble at all. Infantry might not be too far behind at times, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as you should be able to do more then enough damage to your enemies with them in there life span.
     
  7. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    I concur! The GREATEST unit would be Quechua. They make the Deity level like a walk on the park.
     
  8. kristopherb

    kristopherb Protective/Charismatic

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    red coats are cool ive had to stop myself creating a game with england
    and even during the i never go to war vs england in my first prince game i had a perm with england

    im a patroit
     
  9. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    I did an analysis of UUs a while back and one of the biggest factors I found (that people tend to miss) is when you get the UU, particularly for UUs that you want to use in a serious expansion phase for your empire.

    Are Cossaks and Redcoats such kick-butt units because of their benefit, or because of WHEN you get them?

    It's late enough that you have markets, banks, mature Towns, etc and have the financial infrastructure to support a world-spanning empire. It's not so early that the game is all but over.

    Praetorian and 95% of the UUs don't meet this criteria. They may be good and all, but they have some subtle drawbacks if you're going to use them in an offensive capacity. Would you rather have Praetorian when you can afford to conquer 3 cities, or Redcoat when you can afford 30?

    Wodan
     
  10. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    But 1 city early on, is worth 2 or 3 cities later, for the simple reason that you will have longer to use that city and reap its benefits.
     
  11. Red Door

    Red Door Man of Mayhem

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    The Greatest, before Warlords where they got nerfed. Now, it's easily the Quecha.
     
  12. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

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    Fast Workers are still the best, because they are fast forever.
     
  13. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Depends, I suppose, on whether you intend to use your UU to win the game (e.g., Redcoat) or to simply get a bigger empire (e.g., Quecha, Praetorian).

    Wodan
     
  14. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    If you conquer a big empire early on, the game is in the bag anyway.
     
  15. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    On the contrary. If you conquer a big empire early, then you've crippled your economy; by the time you recover the AIs are 10-12 techs ahead.

    Wodan
     
  16. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    And then you chop rush courthouses, spam cottages like your life depended on it (which it does) and you've won. Why? A city will rarely cost more than 6-7 gold maintenance. A single fully fledged town can pay that. A city can easily have over a dozen towns; the maths is rather easy.
     
  17. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    How did my beloved Redcoats (and any other UUs) get nerfed in Warlords? I haven't bought it yet, and the site's info centre contains no information on this.
     
  18. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Are you forgetting the # cities maintenance that affects every city?

    Let's use a better example. Considering that going from scratch to a fully-fledged town takes something like 40 turns post-Emancipation, this is plainly just a bad example. Better would be to say at turn 5 you have 4 cottages. Turn 12 you have 4 hamlets (plus maybe your pop is up +1 so add another cottage).

    Anyway, say on average for the first 15-20 turns, you have 7-8 gold. So, within 15-20 turns you've broken even on that city. But all of your other cities have added maintence. This is going to depend on how big your empire is already. Anyway, a WAG is turn 30 before you break even.

    On the other hand, if you managed to get a market or bank in the conquered city, then you can instantly crank 2-3 merchants in it, turning it into a gold city. Or, if a Library, you can put in 2-3 scientists, turning it into a science city. Either way, instantly the city becomes as good as any of your other cities. The only time this fails is if the conquered city doesn't have ANYTHING, no market, no library, nada.

    Wodan
     
  19. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    Redcoats are only 14:strength: in Warlords so they're basically rifles with a free pinch.
    As long as you conquer a big enough empire it doesn't really matter if the AI is a dozen techs ahead as you can about produce more units win through quanity. And with some tech trading by grabbing techs the AI doesn't go for you should be able to catch up eventually.
     
  20. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    Actually, the Redcoat has a strength of 16 as wel as the 25% vs gunpowder units, so it can make a big difference, especially if you are on a level playing field with the AI.
     

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