The Republicans go to War

[Lanzelot]

It is now 5 years ago that a very interesting Succession Game started: the "Succession Game For Newbees - 8", hosted by TheOverseer714. It was an Always War game on Monarch with a "random everything" start. I was participating in the game and remember, that in the early stages we had a discussion about whether it might be good or at least possible to play this game at least partially in Republic instead of Monarchy.

At that time it was agreed upon common knowledge, that in an AW game you have to go for Monarchy, as otherwise the war weariness will sooner or later eat you alive. However, I felt that the following arguments might make it possible to wage "Always War" under Republic:

• After some early scouting, it looked like we were either alone on an island, or at least isolated on a peninsula with at most 1 direct neighbor. I thought that chances were quite good that we would manage to have only one "active" war at a time, so war weariness should not be a problem, even as a Republic.
• Of course we would not do any active scouting, leaving it to the rest of the world to discover us... This would help pushing the time further out when multiple serious wars would be going on, and therefore would make the time longer where Republic is very powerful.
• In AW you have to research every single tech yourself - no trading with the AI! Monarchy is an expensive tech that you usually have to research, while Republic can be obtained for free. This leaves the beakers, that would otherwise have to be invested into Monarchy, for other non-optional techs; and also the higher commerce of a Republic would allow us to research faster, especially if you consider that we were scientific, meaning half-priced libraries to even increase our Republican extra-commerce! Faster research = more advanced weapons = faster progress & less casualties = less war weariness! And less war weariness might actually make running a Republic worth-while.
• And hey, it's only Monarch level, right?

But in the end, the team was not willing to take the risk and went for the "established best practice" of running a Monarchy.

Now, 5 years later, I want to conduct a little experiment and find out, whether an AW game on Monarch difficulty can successfully be waged under a Republican government. I took the earliest save still available in the original thread (the 3000 BC.sav), got the seed number and all other settings and started a (hopefully) identical game. I will play this kind of like the Asterix game and report my progress here. So off we go! Chancellor Bismarck will take on the world in an Always War game!

 

[Lanzelot]

T000, 4000BC:
Ok, here is our starting position. After moving my worker 1S onto the BG file (which is the one I want to improve first anyway), I discover wheat in the fog:

So I move the settler 1SW.

T001, 3950BC:
The most important tile is now the wheat, so worker moves towards it, 1SW. Question now is: where to found Berlin? 1S or 1SW? In the end I move 1S.

T002, 3900BC:
Berlin is founded and starts a warrior. We use the wheat tile immediately, because the irrigation will finish on time to grow in 6 turns at 3+3+3+3+4+4.
Worker 1SW. Research 100% on Pottery. As Germans we start with Spearmen and Archers, so no need for a military tech yet...

T003, 3850BC:
Worker irrigates.

T004-T006:
Zzzz

T007, 3650BC:
Worker builds a road.

T008, 3600BC:
Berlin grows to 2, picks up the forest for some extra shields, and then is changed to the second wheat. From now on we'll have 4-turn growth...

T009, 3550BC:
Zzzz

T010, 3500BC:
Berlin: warrior -> warrior
Interturn a Dutch warrior appeared at the Berlin borders. Man, that was quick!! I doubled-checked with the original SGFN-8, and there we got contact with the Dutch only in turn 21! With one warrior vs. one warrior, it's a 50-50 chance, that the game will be over already in two turns... (OK, a bit higher, as we'll be fortified... )

Contact King William and tell him we already had enough of him...

Worker moves to the other wheat.

T011, 3450BC:
The dutch warrior fortified outside our borders! Whew! But what a coward...

Worker starts mine, as we need to speed up our war production a bit...

T012, 3400BC:
Berlin grows to 3. We arrange the MM like this:

Research can be cut down to 10% with Pottery due next turn.

T013, 3350BC:
Pottery finished, start Alphabet at 100%.

T014, 3300BC:
Zzzz

T015, 3250BC:
Berlin: warrior -> archer. I would rather build the granary now, but if more Dutch units arrive while we are building it, we might be forced to abort it for more units... Better have a strong defense before going for long-term projects like a 60s granary...

T016, 3200BC:
Berlin grows to 4, now making 3spt, 8bpt and 5fpt.

T017, 3150BC:
Worker starts roading.

T018, 3100BC:
A second Dutch warrior approaches from the south.

T019, 3050BC:
Both warriors close in now, 1 turn before the completion of our archer... This is going to be another almost 50-50 chance now next turn...

T020, 3000BC:
One warrior attacks and kills our warrior, losing only one HP. The other warrior does not attack?!?

But because of the lost military police, Berlin goes into riot, so archer still does not finish Another 50-50 chance next turn.

Worker moves to BG NW, increase luxury rate to 10% and hope that our last man will survive next turn.

Stay tuned and keep your fingers crossed. The starting save file and the final one are attached for your reference.

 

[MTB4884]

Wow, Lanzelot! That's a scary situation to be in so early in the game! Too bad my Chancellor can't send a few Panther tanks to help defend Berlin! I'll be following this.

 

[jiikoo]

Pictures are always nice!

 

[Lanzelot]

Some Panthers or Tigers would indeed be quite helpful in our situation...

So here is again the situation at the end of the last turn, Berlin is burning and out-numbered 5 to 3:

T021, 2950BC:
So I press enter and hold my breath. The 2/3 warrior retreats, the one on the mountain fortifies...
Berlin goes out of riot, grows to 5 and finishes the archer. Start a spearman now.
Worker starts roading.

T022, 2900BC:
Zzzz

T023, 2850BC:
The Dutch warrior has healed and returns to 1E of Berlin. I attack it with the archer: clean win 3/3. That makes the score one each...
As the lone Dutch warrior hasn't attacked earlier, when Berlin was only defended by one warrior, I expect it to do so now as well. Could it be that there is a hard-coded rule in the AI programming, that a single unit will not attack a city, if the chance is only 50-50?

Of course the lux rate now needs to be increased to 20%.

T024, 2800BC:
Two more Dutch warriors arrive from the south:

Fortunately the spearman will finish this turn, thanks to two extra shields on growth. So that makes it 3 vs 3, but we have better weapons...

Worker starts mine.

Increase science rate to 90% again, Alphabet due in 4.

T025, 2750BC:
The Dutch close in...
Berlin spearman -> archer (at 7spt, even though it delays Berlin's growth by a turn) After that I think I have enough troops to finally build a settler to get another troop production town and then a granary.

Lux rate needs to be increased to 20% as Berlin has grown to 6. I make it 30% in case the Dutch really manage to kill 2 of my units. Don't want another riot in this critical situation...

T026, 2710BC:
The Dutch attack:
Warrior 3/3 vs Spearman 3/3: Spearman 2/4
Warrior 3/3 vs Spearman 2/4: Spearman 2/5
Warrior 3/3 vs Spearman 2/5: Warrior 1/3

I get two promotions in a row and my first elite, and then the single remaining warrior also attacks, even though it has never done so before?!

I risk a counter-attack as the warrior is now red-lined and unfortified:
Archer 3/3 vs Warrior 1/3: Archer 1/3 That was close...

I switch the archer to another spearman to replace the loss. Total casualties now are:
We: 1 warrior, 1 spearman
Dutch: 4 warriors

T027, 2670BC:
Archer moves back to Berlin, science rate can be raised to 80%, just enough to finish Alphabet this turn.

T028, 2630BC:
Alphabet -> Writing
Berlin: spearman -> archer

I send my warrior scouting the west coast to find the best spot for a new town. Hopefully it'll be back before the next Dutch arrive...

T029, 2590BC:
Warrior discovers silks.

T030, 2550BC:
Warrior back E, worker moves to forest to chop it down for a fast settler. There would be another BG down south, but that can't be improved yet, as the Dutch come from that direction... And the other BG in the NE can't be reached in 1 turn.

Lux rate needs to be increased to 30%, Writing due in 25.

 

[HardCode]

Hey, this is great seeing games for Civ3 still being posted. Nice write-ups, too. I'll be looking forward for more! I recently tried an AW with Germany on Monarch and then Regent, but I keep getting early contacts and overwhelmed. I hope to learn something here!

 

[Lanzelot]

T031, 2510BC:
Berlin: archer -> granary
Now that I have Berlin at size 7 and no Dutch in sight, I decide to build a quick granary in 5 turns like this:

(Any food beyond 10 is lost anyway, when Berlin builds the next settler and drops back to size 5. More on that later.)

4 units should be enough for defending against the next Dutch wave.

Worker starts chopping wood.
The archer and warrior move onto the mountain, so they can greet any incoming Dutch units while they are still on flatland...

T032 - T034:
Zzzz

T035, 2350BC:
Timber falls, worker starts a road.

T036, 2310BC:
Berlin: granary -> settler

T037, 2270BC:
Zzzz

T038, 2230BC:
Worker starts mine.

T039, 2190BC:
Berlin: settler -> worker

Settler moves 1W

Lux rate can be decreased to 10%

T040, 2150BC:
Settler NW-W

Germany in 2150BC:

Well, this was quite an uneventful turnset, after the dramatic showdown in the previous couple of turns... I don't complain... This much needed breathing space allowed me to finally get the 4-turner operational and spit out the first settler.

Writing is now due in 13 turns, perhaps a bit faster with the next 1-2 towns.

 

[templar_x]

could you please post a pic of the capital after the settler - thx-t_x

 

[Lanzelot]

It's just the "usual" start of an ordinary settler factory: size 5, food-box half-full, making 6spt. But I can check the auto-saves tonight.

I'm now wasting a couple of shields, building another worker before the next settler, but I need more workers. The next settler gets delayed by two turns, but thanks to the road, that the worker can build in the meantime, it will arrive at its destination only 1 turn later compared to if I had not squeezed that worker in. So it's not that bad.

 

[templar_x]

yes please. it shows that this is quite a special situation where your growth to 7 did not have the usual negative effects. that is because you had enough food to refill the granary halfway again before you fell back to size 5. normally you fall back with an empty bin, which is of course much less desirable.

while i think that i would have skipped the granary altogether in such a game, here it actually turned out quite fine until now.

t_x

 

[Lanzelot]

yes please. it shows that this is quite a special situation where your growth to 7 did not have the usual negative effects. that is because you had enough food to refill the granary halfway again before you fell back to size 5. normally you fall back with an empty bin, which is of course much less desirable.

I experimented with this a bit a few years ago, and if I remember correclty, the rules are quite simple for this one:
If a city shrinks from size 7 or more to size 6 or less, the following happens to the food bin:

1. If the city has no granary, the food bin is emptied. (So in the worst case, you lose 39 food!)
2. If the city has a granary, the food bin is truncated at 10 (so you lose everything above 10).

This was the reason, why I worked all those low-food forests while building the granary and the following settler: the food bin already had 10 units, and I knew that everything I would collect during that time, would be dropped anyway...

BTW: the reason why Fireaxis implemented this mechanism, was in order to "fix" a neat little bug/exploit that was possible in Civ2: In Civ2 it was possible (perhaps with a little cash-rush) to create a "perpetuum mobile", a settler pump that spit out a settler per turn without ever dropping in size... I don't recall the exact details, but it worked something like this:

1. Town is at size 6 and fills the food bin (20f) this turn.
2. Town grows to size 7 interturn and the "food bin size" is increased to 40.
3. Game now checks, whether it should remove food from the bin because of the growth, but as the city has a granary and the bin is "half-full", no food is removed, so it remains at 20f.
4. Now production is checked, the settler is produced, city shrinks back to size 5 which reduces the size of the food bin from 40 back to 20...). (The 20f remain in the food bin...!)
5. Now again the food box is checked, the game notices that it is full and decides that the town should grow... So the town grows back to size 6 (this time half of the food bin (=10f) are removed), and Voila! we are back at step 1...

At the moment it looks to me like this would need 10fpt to work, but perhaps even this could be circumvented in Civ2? In any case, Fireaxis decided to fix this "perpetual generation of population out of nowhere", when they designed Civ3, and therefore the new rule that the food box gets emptied (or half-emptied to the smaller food bin, if a granary is present), whenever the size of the food bin gets changed. (A similar transition would then happen at the 12 <-> 13 border.)

 

[Lanzelot]

Anyway, the operation of a 4-turn settler factory is not the topic of this story; I trust that people who want to learn it, can read it up in the War Academy. So back to the topic: how will a Republic government fare under Always War conditions? In order to find the answer, I will first need to become a Republic...

T041, 2110BC:
Berlin: worker -> settler
Hamburg is founded next to the silks and starts a barrack.
Worker NE.

Science rate can be increased to 90% for a couple of turns, so I do it.

T042, 2070BC:
Worker starts road.

T043, 2030BC:
Another Dutch warrior appears in the south. I move my archer&warrior pair to a hill to receive the guest...

BTW, this reminds me that I should now start scouting the near vicinity a bit in order to find the best city locations. In contrast to a "normal" game, I forewent the usual scouting in order to avoid early contacts. But very soon I should now send a little expedition southward to find and secure the best spots for my next settlers.

Science reduced to 80% as Berlin has grown to 6.

T044, 1990BC:
The Dutch warrior does not dare to attack us on the hill, so my archer takes aim:
Archer (3/3) vs warrior (3/3): warrior (2/4)
I fortify my warrior and pull the other archer out from Berlin.

Worker finished mine and moves W-NW to Hamburg. Hamburg is switched to a warrior.
Money is spent and I need to slow down research to 60%, Lux 30%.

T045, 1950BC:
Berlin: Settler -> worker
Archer joins the warrior on the hill, next to the healing Dutch.
Setter goes NW-N, the worker to the same square to connect the new town to Berlin. The other worker starts a road.

Lux to 20%, science 70%

T046, 1910BC:
Hamburg: warrior -> barracks.

Archer (3/3) vs warrior (3/4): archer (4/4)! Now that's more like it
Settler 1N, worker starts a road.

The new warrior moves to Berlin, so lux can be reduced and science increased again.
The other warrior back to the mountain.

T047, 1870BC:
Berlin: worker -> settler
Königsberg gets founded and starts the Colossus.

One warrior moves into Berlin, the other one out to scout the east. New worker NE and starts a mine.

The archer heads for the hills south of Berlin. He needs to scout a bit, but I don't want to risk him on defense.

T048, 1830BC:
Warrior 1E, discovers fish, so I switch Berlin from settler to another worker. (Again the road will speed up the settlement of the next town.)

Worker at Hamburg finishes road and moves 1S.

T049, 1790BC:
Berlin: worker -> settler.
Worker moves E. The other worker starts road, the worker at Königsberg helps with the mine at Berlin, archer and warrior 1S.

Science can be reduced to 20%.

Here is, what the scouts discovered so far:

T050, 1750BC:
The Dutch ring us up and are willing to give us peace, if we pay them 2g and 3gpt. Sure...
Writing -> Code of Laws
Research goes up to 90% again.

T051, 1725BC:
Worker move as can be seen in the final picture, science back to 80%.

I check the tech situation and notice that the Dutch have all the techs I do plus Masonry, The Wheel and Ceremonial Burial. How do they do this?! Similar to the original game I conclude that they must have at least one more contact.

PS: in case you wonder why the worker at Hamburg is building another road instead of a mine on the already roaded BG: I want to connect the silks asap. But if I had chopped that forest now, it would have been wasted into an almost complete barracks. So I decided to build another road first, and then the 10s from the forest can be made good use of by speeding up the following archer.

 

[Lanzelot]

For comparison, here is the situation in the original SGFN-8 at 1750BC:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9075541&postcount=158



Two facts spring to the eye:

• Apparently the much earlier encounter with the Dutch in this game did not only slow me down, but them as well: in the original game they have already two towns settled in our direction, the closest just 5 tiles south of Berlin! Nothing of that kind can be seen in my game...
• The original game at this point had much more military units, (5 spears, 2 archers, 1 warrior to my 1 spear, 1 archer and 2 warriors), but I have much more population: 13 (4 of which are workers) to their 7 (2 of them workers). I also already have a granary.
  We originally had really bad luck with the placement of the first two towns. (BTW: has anybody ever noticed this: When I founded my capital on turn 2, the game wanted to name it "Leipzig". Of course I overruled that decision and renamed it Berlin. For the second town then the name "Leipzig" got skipped and the town named Hamburg, which seems to be #3 on the list?! Never seen this strange behavior before.)

 

[Lanzelot]

T052, 1700BC:
Königsberg worker starts road, Hamburg worker goes to silk forest.

T053, 1675BC:
Berlin: settler -> settler
Worker chopps forest.

Science rate 90%.

T054, 1650BC:
Hamburg: barracks -> archer
Our warrior/archer pair starts on a reconnaissance mission south towards that mountain.
The Dutch border becomes visible there.

T055, 1625BC:
Frankfurt founded on the eastcoast. Starts barracks.

Lux rate 20%.

T056, 1600BC:
We now have a nice view of the Dutch territory.

T057, 1575BC:
Berlin: settler -> worker
Timber falls into Hamburg, worker starts a road on the silks.
Two Dutch archers approach our mountain outlook.

I decide to retreat and lure them towards my territory. If there are more units in Rotterdam, it would mean the certain death of my units, and losses are to be avoided, while I'm still building up. A new archer is almost done in Hamburg, and I can easily destroy the Dutch units, if they come closer.

The settler moves along the road NE-N-E.
Science back up to 90%.

T058, 1550BC:
Hamburg: archer -> archer
Settler 1E.

T059, 1525BC:
Berlin: worker -> settler

München is founded on the eastcoast and starts barracks.

Our money is now finally spent, and I have to lower science rate to 80%.
The Dutch did not follow my troops this turn, did they smell the ambush?!

T060, 1500BC:
The silks are finally connected, and I can set the lux rate to 0%.

Code of Laws is due in 5 turns, my empire is finally gaining speed: total population 16 (11 citizens, 5 workers)

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, on we go on our way to Republic...

T061, 1475BC:
The two Dutch archers appear, one dangerously close to Hamburg! I will need to send the Berlin garrison (warrior & archer) to Hamburg in order to save the town.

The other archer is quickly dispatched:
Archer (4/4) vs archer (3/3): archer (3/4)

Lux raised to 20%.
I'm offering a warrior as gambit. Perhaps they take the bait...

T062, 1450BC:
Archer (3/3) vs warrior (3/3): archer (1/3) and another archer appears:

Archer (4/4) vs archer (1/3): archer (4/4)
Archer (3/4) vs archer (3/3): archer (4/5)

Units can move back into Berlin and lux rate be lowered to 10%.

T063, 1425BC:
And the next Dutch archer appears...
Berlin: settler -> settler

Lux to 0%.

T064, 1400BC:
Hamburg: archer -> spear

Archer (4/4) vs archer (3/3): archer (2/5)

Science down to 50%

T065, 1375BC:
Code of Laws -> Philosophy

Heidelberg founded, starts barracks

Science up to 90%, Philo due in 6 at -2gpt. Our treasury is currently 12g. Perfect...

T066, 1350BC:
And more units appear. Haven't they still not had enough yet?

Archer (4/4) vs spear (3/3): spear (2/4)
Archer (5/5) vs spear (2/4): archer (4/5)

Unfortunately, our 4/5 archer cannot finish healing in Heidelberg, but must move on the square of the worker to intercept the Dutch archer.

T067, 1325BC:
Persepolis finishes the Pyramids.
Berlin: settler -> worker

Archer (4/5) vs archer (3/3): archer (4/5)

Science to 100%

T068, 1300BC:
Zzzz


T069, 1275BC:
Berlin: worker -> worker
Hamburg: spear -> archer
Frankfurt: barracks -> archer
Nürnberg is founded, starts barracks.

Two spears appear on the southern front.


T070, 1250BC:
Zzzz

So the situation is quite ok at the moment: the Dutch have been sending units piecemeal, but not posing any real problem, while I got building up and will have Republic next turn. We have 19% of the world's population compared to the Dutch's 7%.
The Dutch are up Masonry, Wheel, Ceremonial Burial and Map Making against my CoL.

 

[Kirejara]

Normaly I do not like allways war, but this looks interesting. I will observe.

Oh, and it is obviously, that you too disagree with Firaxis spelling of german city names (Heidelburg - shudder!!!)

 

[Lanzelot]

Yes, how can these uncultured people misspell the name of one of the most beautiful cities of the world...!

 

[Lanzelot]

T071, 1225BC:
The Dutch close in.
Philosophy -> Republic -> Ceremonial Burial (the cheapest)

Revolt interturn and get 6 turns of anarchy, oh great!

Archer (5/5) vs spear (3/3): archer (1/5*) Yeah! Barbarossa moves to Berlin and forms an Army.

T072, 1200BC:
Archer (5/5) vs spear (3/3): archer (2/5)

T073, 1175BC:
Zzzz

T074, 1150BC:
Another archer becomes visible.

T075, 1125BC:
Archer (5*/5*) vs archer (4/4): archer (5*/5*)

T076, 1100BC:
And finally we become a Republic. A bit late considering the good start position, but that was due to the early attack of the Dutch, which slowed down the expansion considerably.

Now the experiment, that this story is all about, starts, so now is perhaps the time to talk a bit about the strategy I'm trying to implement. Some of this has already been mentioned in the discussions in SGFN-8. First of all, as you noticed, I have done nearly no exploration to this date. Normally one would already have a couple of curraghs on their way to new contacts, but here I let the others discover me (kind of like the Crickits in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy...), and hope they are going to do a bad job at it... This avoids multiply wars and takes much of the sting out of war weariness. It would be perfect, if I would discover the next civ only when the "current" civ is about to be eliminated... The kind of "isolated" position that we have in this game should make this plan work.

As I cannot trade with the AIs, I need to research all my techs myself. Here Republic helps a lot, and this factor is increased by the fact, that Germany can build half-priced libraries and half-priced harbors for lots of coastal commerce! Also note that I am constructing the Colossus in a first ring town that can easily grow to size 12. This should be a research monster for the entire game. (I don't think I will have to research into the industrial age, so the Colossus will never expire.)

As you will see in the next few turns, Republic already allows me to research the remaining first-tier techs in 4 turns each at 40-50% science rate with a decent cash surplus. Once this is no longer possible, I will do Literature and then build the libraries. (By that time my army should already be big enough for the Dutch.) Harbors will then follow quickly where necessary.

Back to the game. Lux rate needs to be increased to 20%, science can be dropped to 40% and still gets CB done next turn, as I've already collected 24 beakers during the anarchy.
F11 shows, that already now I am #1 in almost everything:

T077, 1075BC:
Ceremonial Burial -> The Wheel
Berlin: worker -> settler

Lux down to 10%, science to 40%, Wheel due in 4 at +18gpt.

T078, 1050BC:
Archer (5*/5*) vs spear (3/3): spear (1/3)
Archer (5/5) vs spear (1/3): archer (2/5)

Berlin has 9s in the setter. I cash-rush one shield (4g) to make it 10, because Berlin will make 9+9(+2 on growth) and complete the settler in 2 turns.
The Dutch now send a settler/spear pair north. Two free slaves for me...
Lux to 20% as Berlin is back to 6.

T079, 1025BC:
Hamburg: archer -> archer

The settler/spear pair walks away again..

T080, 1000BC:
Berlin: settler -> settler
Frankfurt: archer -> archer

A few more archers, and I should be ready to finally take the war into Dutch territory. After the current settler, Berlin will build a couple more workers (we have much too few of them...) and then start the Mausoleum of Mausolos. The plan is then to start my Golden Age with the Knights Templar.

 

[Toxicman007]

Nicely done so far, Lanzelot! Looking forward to see if you can pull this off without mass unhappiness

By the way, your map looks quite familiar, I believe I might have played it before.

 

[Aabraxan]

I'm a little late to the party, but good luck, Lanzelot!