The rich get richer, and the poor get prison

[aimeeandbeatles]

MODS: The last word in the topic is supposed to be 'prison.' Could you please change? Ta

I read in one of my books that middle/upper class people get away with crime more often.
And that laws are made for the 'elite'.
For example, marking a 19-pound-turkey as 20 pounds (something middle-class would do) only gets minor fees, but stealing a pound of turkey (mostly lower-class) results in prison.

Also, the rich people can afford lawyers. Poor people use legal aid lawyers with heavy caseloads and little time to prepare.

Your thoughts on this

 

[Ofuh]

Just one of the many downsides of the type of legal system we have.

Just look at celebrities

 

[woody60707]

not sure what country you are taking about, but in the US, you have to steal over $250 or of = retail value to get jail time. who goes to jail for a little turkey?

Could you also expanded a pond what you are getting at? Why are the rich getting richer? when you say poor get more jail time, do you think its that poor innocent ppl get sent to jail, or is it that guilty rich get off to much? maybe both?

Whats the connection with the rich getting richer and the poor getting sent to jail more? is there even a connection?

Do you have a cite or a link that backs up anything your saying?

 

[Ecofarm]

Disclaimer: Not including a global perspective.

Who needs to steal turkey? If your some pathetic piece of crap that can't afford food, we (taxpayers) give you turkey for FREE (foodstamps) because we couldn't be bothered to teach you how to take care of yourself (that was your parent's job, not the government's). If you end up in prison despite welfare, you are still suckling on our tit.

It is true that money = better result from the judicial system. That does not excuse the poor from committing crimes. Perhaps if they were more worthwhile members of society, we would care. Sorry, but I would prefer if you spent your time in prison instead of continuing to trade your foodstamps for crack.

 

[Whomp]

If a business overcharges for a pound of turkey and they get caught it would spread like wildfire and the business would have a PR nightmare on their hands. I doubt they want that reputation.

 

[Riffraff]

If a business overcharges for a pound of turkey and they get caught it would spread like wildfire and the business would have a PR nightmare on their hands. I doubt they want that reputation.

that isn't really relevant though for a legal discussion is it?

I also agree (looking at the legal system here), that the legal system favours the mid to rich class. For instance tax related crimes, cheating costumers or insurance-fraud are generally not punished as harshly as theft/dealing etc..

This becomes even more obvious if you compare the punishments to the amount of $$ involved.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Disclaimer: Not including a global perspective.

Who needs to steal turkey? If your some pathetic piece of crap that can't afford food, we (taxpayers) give you turkey for FREE (foodstamps) because we couldn't be bothered to teach you how to take care of yourself (that was your parent's job, not the government's). If you end up in prison despite welfare, you are still suckling on our tit.

It is true that money = better result from the judicial system. That does not excuse the poor from committing crimes. Perhaps if they were more worthwhile members of society, we would care. Sorry, but I would prefer if you spent your time in prison instead of continuing to trade your foodstamps for crack.

ITT: ecofarm trips over so many stereotypes his face hurts.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Disclaimer: Not including a global perspective.

Who needs to steal turkey? If your some pathetic piece of crap that can't afford food, we (taxpayers) give you turkey for FREE (foodstamps) because we couldn't be bothered to teach you how to take care of yourself (that was your parent's job, not the government's). If you end up in prison despite welfare, you are still suckling on our tit.

It is true that money = better result from the judicial system. That does not excuse the poor from committing crimes. Perhaps if they were more worthwhile members of society, we would care. Sorry, but I would prefer if you spent your time in prison instead of continuing to trade your foodstamps for crack.

You have so many holes in that, its not even funny, you assume that everyone starts out with equal footing.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Oh, the title -- it's from the sociology book I have.

 

[JollyRoger]

In my law practice, it is much easier for me to help the rich get richer and to stay out of jail than it is for me to help the poor get richer or stay out of jail. White collar crimes are much easier to defend successfully than petty theft. The district attorneys and juries around here give a great deal of deferance to certain types of criminal defendants while giving very little deferance to others.

 

[Shylock]

that isn't really relevant though for a legal discussion is it?

I also agree (looking at the legal system here), that the legal system favours the mid to rich class. For instance tax related crimes, cheating costumers or insurance-fraud are generally not punished as harshly as theft/dealing etc..

This becomes even more obvious if you compare the punishments to the amount of $$ involved.

Tax-related crimes are not crimes at all.

 

[Merkinball]

Solution? Don't commit crime in the first place.

 

[StarWorms]

One of the things I hate is how it's often about affording the best lawyer. As that is the case, it's not a fair trial.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

What makes you think the rich don't steal, or that the poor aren't law-abiding?

 

[JZ_UK]

Tax-related crimes are not crimes at all.

Is it not akin to theft from the state? Money that you owe the state but hide from it costs other people...

Not sure if this can happen in the US... but in the EU you can cheat the Value Added Tax system to actually bleed money out of the state... fraud?

Tax credit - again, money comes to you from the state via the tax system... fraud?

The tax system is there, its protect by the law, you might disagree with it, you might not like it... but the law doesn't pander to your will and it'll bite ya for crossing, its a right obstinate . .. .. .. . that way

 

[MadScotsMan]

that isn't really relevant though for a legal discussion is it?

I also agree (looking at the legal system here), that the legal system favours the mid to rich class. For instance tax related crimes, cheating costumers or insurance-fraud are generally not punished as harshly as theft/dealing etc..

This becomes even more obvious if you compare the punishments to the amount of $$ involved.

I agree with most, but once people learned you've cheated custumers, they tend not to go back.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

To add to what JollyRanger said, many more poor people (in the US) go to jail for the crimes because there are many more crimes that poor people are likely to commit (or more likely to be just blamed for). For example, desperately poor people in New Jersey resort to drug dealing as a means of escape from the conditions of their every day life. Such isn't that common for middle class families.

There is also a systematic problem in America as well. In some states, like New Jersey, the criminal system depends on something called plea bargaining for criminal cases. Say for example, you are charged with a criminal drug offense that you did or did not do, but there's good enough "evidence" to convince a jury otherwise; and the judge says you can either admit guilt and take five years in jail; or go to court and 'probably' be found guilty anyway and go to jail for fifteen. Pleading guilty is almost always the smarter thing to do if you've been charged on simple criminal charges like drug selling; it's very difficult to defend oneself in such "black and white" (did he carry it, or not?) cases. It's for this reason many people plead guilty for crimes that poor people usually commit, even if they are or are actually guilty; hence why you'd see a greater number of poor urban people being put into jail than there theoretically should be. Whereas white collar middle-class crimes have lawyers who don't tell their clients to plead guilty since white collar crimes are less plain and simple than the crimes that poor people are more likely to commit (drugs, etc.) If plea bargaining was removed, and white collar crimes were made as simple as criminal drug offenses, I would imagine the ratio between poor and rich people in prison to balance out a little (not completely, of course)

Personally, one of the core issues regarding all this is in principle who makes the laws. Poor people in some towns can be fined in some towns for loitering or soliciting because it bothers the interests of business. Children from other neighboring towns are usually given skateboarding fines because it bothers some eighty year old residents. Or poor people being arrested and sent to prison for selling drugs just because they're doing so is considered 'unnecessary' in the eyes of people who live in their nice, lush, verdant, suburbs.

 

[Narz]

Disclaimer: Not including a global perspective.

Who needs to steal turkey? If your some pathetic piece of crap that can't afford food, we (taxpayers) give you turkey for FREE (foodstamps) because we couldn't be bothered to teach you how to take care of yourself (that was your parent's job, not the government's). If you end up in prison despite welfare, you are still suckling on our tit.

It is true that money = better result from the judicial system. That does not excuse the poor from committing crimes. Perhaps if they were more worthwhile members of society, we would care. Sorry, but I would prefer if you spent your time in prison instead of continuing to trade your foodstamps for crack.

You must have a lot of issues to be so judgmental.

Well, at least you're doing something good with your life (supposedly). Maybe your time in Africa will help you gain some humility & compassion.

 

[Ecofarm]

When you've lived with starving children, you have little compassion for rich country lazy pieces of crap complaining they don't get enough turkey. You watch a kid who has NO OPPORTUNITY - NONE - no taco bell job, no minimum wage, no education, no healthcare, no clean water, no food, no opportunity whatsoever fade away. Then tell me how I should give a crap about a welfare living, foodstamp trading, PS2 owning, could be working at taco bell, dope smoking, beer drinking, LAZY "poor" person here in America.

This is the land of opportunity. Countless Americans are born poor and manage NOT to steal and yet become rich. In Africa, if you are born poor, you die poor. Period - no exceptions.

Maybe YOU need to go to Africa, so you will quit crying for RICH people (yes, the poor in America are rich by global standards - rich beyond a poor African's DREAMS).

I have every right to be judgemental, but if you don't like it and think being judgemental is wrong, then why don't you start to make a change by not being judgemental about me? Hypocrite.

I reserve my compassion for the truely poor.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

survival of the fitest. This is the way it is supposed to be.