The right to insult

[Rik Meleet]

Do you think everyone should have the right to insult people ?

---

I just watched a Dutch Youtube where a comedian talked to 3 muslima's who he insulted. His defense is that status is a sort of power and power always corrupts and should always be ridiculable. As soon as you are not allowed to ridicule power you are in a scary situation like dictatorship.

(..)An opinion may be insulting to others. If I give my opinion it may be an insult to others. Besides that; "insulting" to some simply is a truth that they'd rather not hear. And that could mean "oh we can't talk about that topic since it's insulting". That's very multi-interpretable.
(..)Do you really think that when I switch on the TV that I don't see things that annoy me ? That I can't feel insulted ?
But you create a shield for that. That's what you do in a free society because you will be confronted with things you'd rather not .... applause drowns speech
I've noticed that very often religious people are very bad at creating that shield because religious people have the tendency to monopolise the truth. They say "That's the way life is and that's the way one should live!".

I agree with him.

Edit: found an english subtitled youtube.
And it contains some harsh language.

 

[bhsup]

Yeah, I agree with the right to insult, but I'm not keen on yelling profanity in public via a speaker system. The lyrics did both, so dicey call.

That said, I don't think I'd vote to convict someone who punched his lights out either.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

...status is a sort of power and power always corrupts and should always be ridiculable...

This topic seems odd, being posted by one of the moderators here. Are you suggesting that we should be allowed to insult the staff of this forum simply because they have a status the rest of us don't?

 

[bhsup]

This topic seems odd, being posted by one of the moderators here. Are you suggesting that we should be allowed to insult the staff of this forum simply because they have a status the rest of us don't?

I always like an answer in the FAQ over at NationStates. Forums are privately owned and operated. Freedom of speech doesn't exist. From that FAQ: "Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state."

 

[Rik Meleet]

This topic seems odd, being posted by one of the moderators here. Are you suggesting that we should be allowed to insult the staff of this forum simply because they have a status the rest of us don't?

I am not an OT moderator, only a mere member so I am posting this as a mere member.
I would appreciate it if you'd discuss the topic and not the OP.

And yes - you have the right to insult me in a suitable environment. Insulting itself is not allowed on CFC but insulting me outside CFC I have no problem with.

 

[Swedishguy]

Yes, I do. Though I must say it's not very smart at some times.

 

[Rhymes]

I agree.

And I don,t know who those women are, but I thought they did a really professional job on the interview even though his jokes were clearly insulting to them.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I am not an OT moderator, only a mere member so I am posting this as a mere member.
I would appreciate it if you'd discuss the topic and not the OP.

And yes - you have the right to insult me in a suitable environment. Insulting itself is not allowed on CFC but insulting me outside CFC I have no problem with.

Sheesh. Please re-read my post. I merely expressed surprise that a forum staff member (regardless of which part of it you're responsible for) would ask if it's okay to insult people -- I wasn't meaning YOU personally. I meant "you" as in "one of the forum staff". Considering that one of a moderator's duties is to keep insults to a minimum, I think you (as the individual who posted the OP) have a duty to give your point of view on the matter. I am NOT saying any of this to mock any staff member here, or troll, or be disrespectful. I'm an admin and mod on other forums, and this can be a very difficult issue to handle with some people.

And I have no wish or need to insult you anywhere, unless you become a Canadian politician. In that case, you're fair game.

Forums are privately owned and operated. Freedom of speech doesn't exist.

Ah, yes -- the "freedom of speech" thing. Here in Canada we accept that some things are simply not said in polite company (which I personally consider the 'Net to be, as I haven't personally met more than about half a dozen of the people with whom I interact online).

That said, we feel perfectly justified in insulting our politicians as long as both we and the politician(s) in question are not actually physically in the House at the same time. For example, it's unparliamentary to call an MP a liar in the House, but if you do it during a media scrum, it's merely considered mudslinging.

The "free speech" issue is something that has caused severe misunderstandings on a couple of the forums I admin. From my observations, Americans seem to find "Freedom of speech" to be a sacred right, and implicit permission to say whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, and to whomever they want. And when I tell them, "No, there are some things you may not say, or at least you may not say them in that manner," we end up with a huge argument.

 

[Verbose]

Making fun of the Mighty has always been a good form of defence/protest.

But you can kick downwards as well. All those popular deemed-hillarious-at-the-time jokes about greedy Jews and watermelon-eating Negroes of a bygone age were hardly "defense", except maybe from bogeymen in peoples' minds.

Jokes aren't really innocent in that way.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

IMO people have the right to insult, but also the right to not to be insulted.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Asserting the right to insult is a rather poor way to frame freedom of speech, but the right not to be insulted would necessarily be a destructive and malign influence on society. Freedom of speech always has some limits that each society defines in various ways to ensure that this speech doesn't curtail other equally fundamental rights. Certain insults might well legitimately fall foul of these limitations, so I couldn't support an open ended right to insult. We should derive our right to legitimately insult from the general right to freedom of speech that every liberal society rightly affords it's citizens. Merely being offended can never be a legitimate cause to restrict that freedom. But to assert a right to insult in and of itself belittles the true importance of our fundamental rights.

As for the the insult in question, I see nothing that could possibly be covered by any reasonable limit on freedom of speech. I completely agree that it's vulgar and repulsive, but it doesn't infringe on anyone elses fundamental rights for him to say it, so there's no case to restrict his fundamental right to say it.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

IMO people have the right to insult, but also the right to not to be insulted.

An open ended legal right not to be insulted would be either absurd and unworkable, or catastrophically destructive and totalitarian.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

I personally believe that rights are a moderatist mistake.
What is needed are responsibilities to do what is right, not simply a list of bad things not to do which is really quite a ridiculous idea if we take it to logical conclusions.

 

[warpus]

Do you think everyone should have the right to insult people ?

Rik Meleet, I think you should suck my big fat toe.. you silly dutch person.

 

[Perfection]

The only right anyone has is the right to my foot up their tuchus.

 

[Godwynn]

I like that guy.

+10 points for the comedian.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Redicluing is a part of freedom of speech. Freedom of speach over all else.

 

[lutzj]

This topic seems odd, being posted by one of the moderators here. Are you suggesting that we should be allowed to insult the staff of this forum simply because they have a status the rest of us don't?

People complain about mods all the time.

 

[El Koeno]

I like that guy.

+10 points for the comedian.

He's starting a new career in England, so you might see some show of him you can understand. He's a very funny guy, so do so if you have the opportunity.

I thought the girls weren't polite or professional at all. They repeatedly tried to belittle him, but he just didn't take the bait and stuck to his point. Which the girls kept on rejecting, they never got closer to each other in the whole conversation which is kind of sad really.

My position is that he is sort of right: he's a comedian, it's his job to make fun of things, and as he says, it's all the better if he does it with sensitive subjects. I just hope people don't think that it's okay for them to say nasty stuff at every person wearing a head scarve they meet, because we have "freedom of speech".

 

[Cutlass]

Yes. Always. But people should also know that there is a a limit to what can go without a response. And many of the people who are very touchy about it need to lighten up.