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The Rise and Fall of the Sea People (IMMaw)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by BornInCantaloup, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I give you :

    Spoiler :






    Moved the scout, srry. Kind of an interesting start. Probably sane to SIP but early build orders are not clear.
    Can you Bernus them ?
     

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  2. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Opener hints :
    Spoiler :
    Probably need to go Fishing first, or else you're never gonna work those tiles.
    I think it takes 7 turns to research it ? So 14 food in the bin.
    Then :
    - switch to workboat, working 5h/t, so 6 turns workboat. Grow to size 2 on 8th turn.
    - grow to size 2 (4t, 12h into workboat), work 6h/t workboat done on 7th turn. (<- better)
    Worker, pasture, stuff happens.
     
  3. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Low sea level but Imm, could be fun! :D

    Will perhaps have a look at this tomorrow!
     
  4. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    Hi BiC,

    Spoiler What I would do :

    AH-Mining-(Fishing)-BW-(Fishing)

    Worker - 2*Warrior - Settler at size 2. 2nd city 3E1S & worker at size one.

    Then either workboats or (more likely) some more settlers depending on whether there's good production spots around.

    The reasoning here is that you have a lot of commerce, so the focus is on maximizing production. So growing the capital past size 2 early on is probably irrelevant.

    Without the gold, I'd probably go AH-Fishing with worker first & settler right after it (fogbust with the scout)


    Edit: Wrote this whole thing thinking the leader was Brennus and not Shaka. Actually EXP is one more incentive to go worker first. And since this is IMM AH is probably 10T, so the timing is lovely (didn't check though).
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Made a buffy5 starting save, although remember to not move the scout T0 when starting this save, as that would be cheating.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
     

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  6. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I give up at T62
    Spoiler :


    I was in for some impi fun so I went mining->bw, farmed that cow first.
    Was excited when I met Mao to see that it was always war. :)
    Sacrificed my scout to see if his capital was flatland, which it was.
    No copper in sight at BW though, so AH after that, horses was no fun. Continued pottery and IW to get some iron but that seem to be a no-go.
    Lost 2 workers to barbs also because I just wanted to kill stuff.
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

     
  7. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    I don't understand the Bernus thing, but a map like this always gains my attention and raised interest :smoke:
    Spoiler :
    Is it supposed to be kept a secret that we play AW here?
     
  8. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Hi Pedro, interesting thoughts,
    Spoiler :
    Actually... I didn't check the timing on AH... Maybe it's 10 turns as you say (Hunt & Agri). Didn't even consider it might be less than 15 turns...
    ... checking now... checking... now... it's 12 turns. Worker is 10 turns.
    I'm not sure it changes my view, then.
    What I'm concerned about is :
    improved cows give 3 food, improved gold gives -2. Say you improve cows, gold and build a boat : you stop working the gold so as to grow a size.
    I think unlocking the best food (clams) earliest is better. It smoothes growth a lot. Then pasture, then mine.

    I think growing past size 2 early on is extremely relevant - this is how you maximize production. 2nd workboat before settler is a real possibility.
    Being EXp, I can see the appeal of an early granary (so stunned growth before Pottery) but there are quite many techs that are needed before then.



    Not really, sorry, just me being a troll... Have fun. I've played 15 turns and I think the map looks quite adequate !
     
  9. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    T18 :
    Spoiler :
    Mostly did what I said : fishing first into AH, grow warrior into workboat, worker at size 2.

    I get a couple of "lucky encounters" and fight on grassland :
    Spoiler :




    So, 3 AIs are met. Isabella is very close. The warrior only gets 1xp at a time, killing scouts like this but it's better than nothing. Unlocking Woodsman 2 asap is a top priority.
    Also better if they do not have vision over Ulundi : they won't target the city but just wander around.

    AH is in a brings some excellent news with BFC horses. That's actually great. Land overview :
    Spoiler :






    So, we're on this little corner of the world with :
    - Isabella to harass,
    - lots of fish tiles and islands to get with sailing,
    - jungle to the south-east.

    It's too early to consider blocker cities but there are a few hills that could host a defensive city.
    How to get the fishes online is another question but that will be left for later : settling the grass cows and the corn takes easy priority.

    Had there not been horses.... It's possible to have some troubles acquiring a strategic resource, with a start like this. It's conceivable that Bronze would be offshore or something like that.
    Horses are great. I'll go Bronze into Pottery and try to get some units out. Horseback Riding is a real option for the future.

    BFC horses... are even greater. Note that this is another food negative tile. Second city probably goes 3E1S, sharing the plains cows. Ulundi won't grow to size 5 without a granary.
    City has 12 hammers working its specials only. Great spot.
     
  10. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Considering the special mode, I would consider building 1. warrior, 2. worker (while going for AH). Mining or fishing next is the question. The worker needs stuff to do but at the same time the city needs to grow...
     
  11. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I stand by Fishing first. You do have the time to train a warrior before it completes (and put 2 turns into Ikhanda).
    Still, I'm open to seeing how other paths compare.

    t30 :
    Spoiler :
    Success !
    Worker is out. New decision : do you want a 2nd workboat ? Because food negative tiles : yes !
    This is the gold tile at work : you wanna grow before the gold is improved. You wanna start on a settler when/after the gold is improved. Getting as much growth as possible in the meantime is essential.
    So :
    Spoiler :


    Meanwhile in the south...
    Spoiler :




    Holy riverside ! Wow ! There's gotta be some bananas around and some killer cities.
    Also, Warrior 1 the well named now has 5xp and a mission to boot ! It's hard to emphasize enough the importance of this event.
    Isabella missed the religion, nevermind. She'd have a hard time getting a shrine if we successfully harass her.

    Ulundi timing working out nicely :
    Spoiler :




    City grows to size 4 on the same turn the mine is done. T32 is quite late to start on a settler but this is a clams start, so, erf. Pretty sure it's better that way.
    Will do some chopping with the worker to speed up the settler. Probably going settler into settler, actually, so as to gain the corn as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  12. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    t41, and I think that will be it from me for today :
    Spoiler :
    I get vision over Madrid. Nice spot ! So, pillage the gems, capture a worker there some time later ?


    Second city to the north, worker roading in between... snipe !


    There's a stack of 3 archers just 1N of the worker but they do not strike back. They flee to the SE and I spot another worker in Barcelona.
    This one :


    Fleeing worker goes 1 tile at a time. Woody cannot escort him. The second warrior from Ulundi is on its way to help secure movement...
    ... and he dies, attacked on a forest by a barb warrior. 4,4% odds, they say... Just NW of the horses.



    Meanwhile, the settler is almost done. Woody goes back to the gems.
    There :



    So that's 3 workers captured in 5 turns. Insane !
    Settler is out, revolt into Slavery. Bad news is Warrior 2 died a sad death to Barbarian Warrior and I did not see this coming :



    Can't settle. That's awkward. Ulundi can get 2 warrior in 2 turns so I'm safe, but this settler has to turn back and head for the corn.
    This archer is also likely to camp a forest, which would be real bad. Probably need to attack him with my 2 warriors on the plains cow tile.

    Not sure whether I road or chop, time to pause :


    Woody is escorting the worker from the gems. Should get back to Spain asap.
    Other bad news is : Isabella will get vision over Ulundi and send her Archers. She's got 10 or so already. I probably need my own archers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  13. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    @BornInCantaloup
    Spoiler t41, AH first :

    Completely ignored the AIs here, just wanted to test an alternate early game tech path.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG

    2 cities, 5pop, granary in Ulundi, 3 warriors, 1 worker + 1 on the way. I don't usually ignore BW for this long, but getting to work the power tiles ASAP was more important. Would've played out a bit differently without BFC horses I think.
     
  14. soundjata

    soundjata Be like water

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    BIC please show me victory screen plzzz :smoke: :thumbsup:
     
  15. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    At turn 50 now, I have made a WB save in order to play with BATMod and to abuse my favorite setting "No tech brokering" (my game will most probably be easier than yours).
    So far so good. 3rd settler is on the way, he will settle the PH in order to share Clam/Cow and to get the fish later.
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    Will need an offensive 4th city to attract the AI attacks to, it will probably be the PH without forest to the north-east. My tech order was AH / Mining / BW / Fish / Wheel / Pottery. After Writing, I will decide between HBR+archery and IW. Metal would be better with AGG leader but maybe I don't have it.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Is this Always War game? And more importantly, should we expect amphibious elephants? :D
     
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  17. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Oh you hurt my feelings just now ! Have I ever not shown a victory screen plzzz ? :lol: :love:

    Thanks for the showcase, Pedro. Seems like my feeling about fishing first was wrong. It seems quite comparable.
    I'm ahead in techs - for now - but would rather have the better production and it seems like you have some more, thanks to the grass cows. Indeed the secret tile contributed to make your opening better. Clams are no good for settler production.

    It is, indeed, Lymond.

    t41 :
    Spoiler :
    Looking back at my picture : I think it was a mistake to retreat the settler towards the corn.
    I should have moved it 2E1N to evade Isabella's archer. Once the archer goes past the forest and/or my 2 warriors are out, I can be in position and settle.
    I'm likely to reload this move in from t40.
    Having to retreat back to the corn is like really bad, especially since my stolen workers are almost back. (And I have 4 pop for 5 improved tiles - even this 3 turns delay is really bad.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  18. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Oh boy, difficult map. Game over for me at 600 AD.
    Spoiler :
    I can't get any tech advantage. No great spy, and no great cities. City placement was more strategic, to get the iron, to be on hills etc.... Was a mistake to settle close to the iron. In the retrospective, a mix from HAs and double-barrage-promoted Cats would have been enough. Of course, AGG melee units are nice, but if the iron-city is crap for very long time, then it drags down the whole empire.
    Now Mao comes with CKN, Augustus already attacked 3x with Praets, also Justinian + Rosy send big stacks.
    My resumee: ImmAW on a quasi-pangea with medium leader traits (at least not suitable for AW), no copper/ivory & only a very awkward iron = not winnable for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  19. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    @ Tobi :
    Spoiler :
    Did you get Horse Archers ? I think you need to. I got there around 1000 BC, which is early enough that they can do damage. Haven't researched IW yet.
    I concur that wonders are extremely tempting but we simply lack the production. If we had better food in the capital, some would be conceivable. Like... the GLH would be great.

    Also, harassing Isabella is key.
    Also, not winning those maps is fine ! Rest assured. Those maps are alluring but they're not made for winning. Excellent practice, though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  20. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Spoiler :
    My mistake was to go for Iron as well, under the influence of wanting to make use of my AGG trait. I already had early HA, don't remember the time, but didn't build enough. Izzy was tamed, I did controll her iron, but all the other guys came to me fully armored....
     

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