The Rise & Fall of The Mughals ~ v2 ~

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Rambuchan, Apr 7, 2006.

  1. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    ... Portuguese/emperor continued (1560-1580)

    As expected Gulbagara falls swiftly and in 1563 I bring the Bijapuri to peace talks by which I spare their last colony in the Himalayan foothills vs (Mansab System) - just as the Portuguese Golden Age comes to a glorious end. That final Bijapuri city will eventually be conquered by the Mughals in 1580, bringing an end to one of the mighty Deccan sultanate.

    By 1564 our Viceroy is at the helm of 16 colonies (11 in India, 3 in Burma, 1 in Oman, 1 in Siam). A high-level military reunion is called in Goa to assess the situation of Portugal's possessions in the region. A double strategy brings consensus amongst all:

    1/ Direct conflict with the Persian powers should be avoided at all costs, hence the need to maintain intact the buffer sultanates to the north and east (resp. Ahmadnagar, Bengal and Golconda). Such peace in the Goa-Bijapur area should be used to rebuild war-torn infrastructure, re-enforce garrisons in newly conquered cities and convert the ethnic-Bijapuri populations.

    2/ Policy of peaceful competition with other European powers is to be maintained in order to both protect the safety of Lisboã back-home and avoid a naval bloodbath.

    Which leaves room for 3 areas of military expansion / evangelization:
    - Vijayanagara
    - Ceylon
    - Burma and surrounding islands

    The option of a sudden attack both from north and south on the legendary hindu kingdom is hotly debated. The surprise effect, supposed military advantage and the claw-like offensive would probably bring Vijayanagara to its knees. However, a single alliance of theirs with any of the northern/European powers would oblige Portugal to fight on all fronts. Deemed too adventurous by the Viceroy himself, the invasion is cancelled.

    Instead in 1568, the Portuguese set foot on Ceylon. By 1580 the full island is conquered with the help of 2 army corps (serpes and mahouts, resp.). Isolated and technically backwards, the Ceylanese did not stand a chance and their civilization is gone.

    In parallel and without help from the subcontinent, our possessions in Portuguese-Burma seek to end the piracy in the Bay of Bengal and Andaman Sea. Our forces storm the two Malaccan Pirates' colonies on the coast of Burma and sink most of the Pirates' ships. In 1580 a 13,000 men army sets foot on the Nicobar islands to route the Pirates out of their nest. Their resistance is however fierce in order to defend their final bastion; Portuguese vessels set sail towards Ceylon to gather more troops to the battle, while our musketmen set tranches on the shores to protect the rocket wallas from being captured under the assaults of crazy Mallacan raiders...
     
  2. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    This is a great read! :)

    I was playing as Portugal the other day, actually. Although I was more than holding my own against the Brits and Vijayanagara, the RNG seemed to HATE whoever was on the offense (so it seemed to be a stalemate! :crazyeye:)
     
  3. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    Virote Considon: what do you mean by RNG? Random Number Generator?

    Belly Delhi seems to never stop whenever it affects a city (Goa has had it for 40+ turns now) and it is the graphics more than the effect itself that are annoying.

    Also, and this is maybe due to me being by some margin ahead (1584 now), the AI seems very peaceful. I have not seen a war (other than the ones I wage) for a good 10 years. Maybe an anti-Portuguese conspiracy is being plotted in Delhi that will soon see my lands stormed by northern elephants/camels/cavalry? I know the scenario seems to hold several surprises - from reading back on the thread - but I fail to see what the AI will do to stop me from now on... At what level did you play?

    Anyway back to those pesky pirates...
     
  4. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Yup :)

    :lol: The effects would start to annoy you if you usually (like me) prefer playing as Nepal/Myanmar... I've had it forever, too!

    I always play Monarch at the moment.

    Also, a bit un-related, but people reading this thread might want to make ALL techs with units assigned to them which are currently set to era=None to the Ancient Era (apart from Monarchy, which seems to be a tech to stop civs from building certain units ;)). This is because even though all of the civs know these techs, if a unit comes from an none era tech tech, then they cannot be built. (This is not the case with improvements, though, or GOVT's, IIRC)

    EDIT: Unless this was done on purpose (which it doesn't seem to be...)
     
  5. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    :) I have 150+ musketmen/riflemen and 15+ garrisons, so having one succombing of diarrhea every other turn goes un-noticed in Goa. How have you fared with Nepal and Myanmar?
     
  6. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Both pretty good, seeing as how they started life as backwards nations!

    I managed to get Nepal to be the leading tech-researcher (although this was almost a year ago), and managed to get Myanmar ahead of the Safvids (SP?) in the domination race! (Havn't won either- yet ;))
     
  7. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    ... Portuguese/emperor continued (1580-1585)

    By 1585 I had my 2 army corps (serpes and mahouts) still fighting on Nicobar, assisted by 7 batteries of rocket wallas + half of my fleet surrounding the islands. Yet those Pirates were still standing after 5 years of heavy siege of their stronghold! Leader Eduardo de Menezes emerged from the assaults and decided that there had to be some sort of drugs involved for such die-hardness; he ordered a Goan-style enquiry on the archipelago once it would have surrendered in order to eradicate all the perversion on-going in that basket of snakes.

    Meanwhile tension was mounting with all 3 other European powers getting frustrated at Portuguese progress. In particular, our rivalry with the Dutch in the Bay of Bengal was at its peak and our fleet sunk many of their corsairs, to their ashamed dismay.

    Yet the attack came from where no one expected it, in 1585: a horde of 14,000 war camels from Rajput crossed Ahmadnagar's territory and attacked the city of Bijapur and its surroundings! Bijapur itself was too well-defended but towards the east the Rajputs slaughtered 2 Portuguese inquisitorial missions. Why the Rajputs? they shared no borders with us and had so far managed to fortify their 9-cities empire in the shadow of its 2 powerful Persian neighbours. The vicious attack on our people of faith led our Viceroy to think the motives were religious: some moslem leaders up north saw with a very angry eye the moslem/hindu Bijapuri populations now under Portuguese control and flocking in vast numbers to our churches, right in the heart of the sub-continent.

    This could be the beginning of a long-time feared, vast coalition vs Portugal. Some European powers, especially those now growingly hostile to Catholicism (English and Dutch) could even be drawn-in. Military attention suddenly de-focused from the Far-East: those war camels had to be delt with swiftly - rocket wallas, mahouts, serpes, cavalry were all ready to shoot arounds the hills of Bijapur. Our navy stationed in Kerala and Oman started moving towards the mouth of the Indus river where the Rajputs had their only port.
     
  8. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    St Exupère: These are indeed wonderful reports you are writing about the scenario. Many thanks and I wish you well with your campaign to turn them all into chutney! (PS. Great user name you cheeky little prince.)

    Virote_Considon: Thanks for giving our dear reporter some feedback, info and colour.

    For others: I rarely post on CFC these days and am going on holiday tomorrow. So don't expect much from me on this matter. However, as always, feel free to discuss the scen yourself, make whatever changes as you wish and above all - enjoy!
     
  9. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    ... Portuguese/emperor continued (1585-1592)

    Exhausted, our soldiers finally took Nicobar in 1588 after a siege of 8 years. 2 decades of warfare day and night, at sea, in the jungle and on the beaches, to finally eradicate the Mallaccan Pirates from the Bay of Bengal and Andaman Sea! A few of the survivors have fled south-east towards Sumatra where they will for sure aim to continue their evil business; however chief renegade Orang Laut has had a sudden touch of Grace - he converted just before being captured and is now said to have retired to a Franciscan monastery, in Kerala.

    General de Menezes was bitterly disappointed at the puny treasure found in the Pirates' stronghold; the sight of tens of prostitutes now happily flocking to convents and hundred of freed slaves gloriously enroled on Portuguese carracks was not enough to comfort him. He tried wine and was found dead-drunk one morning outside a tavern. His men had already left the islands by then, led by young Pero da Covilhã determined to bring back as many troops to India where news of warfare had reached Nicobar. The Far-East was at peace with an all Portuguese vs Dutch affair there (9 colonies vs 6).

    Stupor and horror in Goa after the brutal killing of our missionaries in the plains of Bijapur by Rajput camel riders. It is said that the news was even commented in Rome! The Rajputs had to pay, and pay dearly, for having offended God. Quickly, our serpes and wallas gather around Bijapur and in 1586 dispersed the Rajputs in the forests north of the city, killing as many as 8,000. That was for 1.

    In parallel to troop re-enforcements all along our northern border (Baçaim-Bijapur-Gulbaraga) an audacious naval expedition of 10,000 men was set aiming at the Rajput port of Shah Bundu by the mouth of the Indus river - right in the heart of our ennemy's territory. The plan worked wonders: while in 1591 8,000 Rajput camels and cavalry were slaughtered by our artillery after storming through the plains north of Baçaim (that was for 2), our serpes/mahouts assisted by wallas attacked and captured Shah Bundu in 1592 - and that was for 3!

    The Rajputs had lost their only port and now have a Portuguese gun pointed right at their heart (Jaipur), while their proud cavalcades through Ahmadnagar have all ended-up in massive losses once in reach of Portuguese fire. Sure the Rajputs have style, but they have no substance... if it was not for the numerous Savafid/Mughal riders spotted along our borders, our Viceroy would have every reason to celebrate.
     
  10. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    ... Portuguese/emperor continued (1593-1600)

    Some catholic ethnic-Bijapuri have managed to reach the Mughals' court in Delhi and gather information: there has indeed been a persian conspiracy plotted and executed against the Portuguese. Mughals and Safavids have convinced the Rajputs to launch deadly attacks around Bijapur on religious motives in order to weaken the Portuguese before going on a full campaign of their own.

    What they had not planned was such Rajput berezina, and the immediate counter-attack of the Goa Viceroy with the capture of Shah Bundu! Taken by surprise on their flank the Mughals decide nevertheless to declare war on Portugal in 1593 with an aim to at least drive the Europeans out of Rajputana. Up to 18,000 Mughal cavalry will pour around the war-torn area at the mouth of the Indus river, causing important casualties to Portuguese defenders; however, city walls are rush-built and massive Portuguese re-enforcements from Baçaim keep on arriving. Our forces are superior and both Mughal and Rajput losses are heavy; Shaha Bundu will hold on.

    In 1597 general Pedro Alvarez Cabral leads 3 army corps (serpes, mahouts, cavalry) + 13,000 soldiers out of Shah Bundu and through Sind with an aim to counter-attack and target the Rajput city of Udaipur. This is the time chosen by the Savadis to declare war on us as well. Despite its military victories, Portugal now faces a tough Rajput-Mughals-Safavids coalition far away from its bases.

    As early as 1598 Udaipur is conquered! and then protected inland in the following years. Demoralized by Cabral's boldness, the Mughals decide to sign peace after 5 years of useless warfare and break the anti-Portugal alliance; the whole plot is a total failure. Meanwhile, our superior navy sets sail from Mascate towards the Persian coast harassing Savafids colonies. Portugal has now conquered 2 Rajput key cities, and 4 army corps + an amazing 42,000 soldiers are wandering south of Jaipur. The Mughals have abandonned them and the Safavids have so far failed to punch-in any weight. The Rajput have been tricked and are doomed!
     
  11. RedwallFortress

    RedwallFortress Necromancer Emperor

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  12. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    ... Portuguese/emperor continued (1600-1613)

    Chaos on the Persian coast: from its powerful base of Mascate, the Portuguese use their dominant navy to project on Safavid shores a combined fusiliers/rockets force. The Safavids are caught off-guard and in 1603 the port-city of Shirvan is conquered and burnt to the ground! Portugal wants to stun its Persian rival using brute force. In 1606 it is the port-city of Herat that is taken and brutally razed while Safavid defenses on their own coast-line is helpless. Portuguese ruthlessness starts being known off and havoc spreads in southern Persia.

    In Rajputana itself Portuguese re-enforcements continue to pour-in from Baçaim while the Rajput continue to fight for their homeland in style. In 1603 the Rajput city of Thar is conquered after a tough battle and Portugal finally lay its hands on opium fields. In 1604 a massive Safavid army of 20,000 beduins and mameluke launch an assault on Portuguese positions near Thar; by 1605 and despite inflicting some damage, the Safavid attack turns to debacle, then massacre.

    In 1607, after having regrouped, Portuguese easily conquer the key-Rajput city of Jodhpur which opens up the way to Jaipur itself. There again and until 1609, thousands of Safavid beduins will try to liberate the city - in vain. Portugal is simply too strong, its soldiers too numerous, better organized and equipped. In 1611 General Paulo da Gama leads the siege of Jaipur and the Rajput capital-city falls in 1613. Having lost 5 cities, on their knees, the Rajput put aside their bravery and beg for peace; Goa Viceroy refuses indicating that he considers Rajput, its land and people, as the property of his majesty the King of Portugal and that it will follow the same fate as Bijapur 5 decades ago.

    Elsewhere the European powers dare not challenge Portuguese hegemony in India, on land and at sea; Vijayanagara, Golconda, Bengal and Ahmadnagar stay quietly put and the Mughals are still humbled by their 1593-1598 humiliation. The Safavids have been battered in Rajputana and have seen their southern coast torn apart by Portuguese soldiers. And there are now talks in Goa of trade monopoly ambitions over the entire sub-continent...
     
  13. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    @Rambuchan: in 1616 I have discovered all sciences and therefore switch to "new era". Some modern anachronical graphics automatically kick-in for cities and citizens, replacing the beautiful ones I had played the game with so far. You might want to change this if you ever envisage a v3 of this scenario, it somewhat ruins an otherwise fantastic in-game feeling.
     
  14. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    ... Portuguese/emperor final (1613-1621) - PORTUGAL VICTOR

    In 1615 Goa establishes a Trade Mastery over the indian sub-continent. Portuguese commercial hegemony is now almost complete and no power seems to be able to contest it before it becomes effective.

    The Rajput are agonizing and their fate is sealed: in 1616 Ajmir falls, in 1618 it is Bikaner that is taken and their last city in Rajputana, Jaisalmer, is conquered in 1619. After 34 years of warfare since the infamous attack of a Portuguese mission by Rajput riders, the whole Rajputana is Portuguese! After Bijapur, Rajput is the second sultanate swallowed by the European power; all what is left of them is a colony in the Himalayan foothills which the Goa Viceroy decides to leave in peace.

    The Safavids are helpless. They cannot prevent their southern Persia city of Ahwaz to be taken after a long siege of 10 years, and burnt to the ground by the Portuguese; nor can they stop the Portuguese conquest of Rajputana now dangerously threatening their eastern borders.

    It is finally in 1621 with the capture of the Koh-i-Noor and its shipment to Lisboã that Portugal establishes a long-term hegemony over the Indian sub-continent. Less than a century after the initial settlements of Goa and Cannanore, the Portuguese have now established a mighty empire which was only possible through divine intervention. The Goa Viceroy is at the helm of 32 colonies (19 in India, 1 in Oman, 3 in Sri Lanka, 1 in the Andaman Sea, 1 in Siam and 7 in Burma) having conquered and submitted Ceylon, Bijapur and Rajputana. In terms of military (land ans sea), finance, science, industrial production, population, religious and cultural development Portugal has no match. The other European powers have been dwarfed, the Indians dominated and the Persians humbled. Portugal victor!
     
  15. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    Portuguese space race victory in 1621, 107 turns.

    - VPs: 1. Portuguese (44,040) - 2. Mughals (13,050) - 3. Safavids (10,000)
    - world area: 18% (1st)
    - world pop: 33% (1st)
    - city culture: 2,149 (Goa, 1st)
    - civ culture: 7,415 (1st)
    - wonders: 6 (all in Goa)
     
  16. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Nice one! :)
     
  17. St Exupère

    St Exupère Warlord

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    Comments on the scenario:

    in-game feeling: just great.

    - graphics are top-quality: terrain, cities, units (except for the glitch once all sciences have been discovered)

    - sound-track is a work of art, providing full immersion

    - wonders in particular, pedia in general are detailed. I learnt a lot and laughed, also

    - liked the 4 culture groupings, they make sens; good depth in civ modding with several UU's and a good amount of flavouring

    - timeline makes sense and does match with History

    - the balance between the Indian subcontinent and a bit of Middle-East, Burma/Siam, Himalaya to cater for external influences is well done

    gameplay: fun in the early part, easy-going after

    - European auto-producing buildings do reflect well the progressive grasp on the region, yet are too powerful IMO in the mid/late game action. If one of the 4 colonial powers manages to get a solid foothold on the continent early on, then invests heavily in garrisons/supply lines/ports/company houses/viceroy palaces + mahout stables, there will be not much to prevent victory even at deity/sid levels I suspect. One way to balance this could be to either reduce the number of such buildings, or/and decrease the auto-producing frequency

    - the switching from colonialism by AI for the other European powers simply got me rid of my most fearesome competitors. I knew as early as 1550 that EOC, VOC and French would not win this.

    - naval interaction and warfare seemed balanced, well put - pirate activity in particular

    - liked the fact that you need to work hard to move large numbers of troops around the map, liked the fact that there is no railway or equivalent which sometimes spoils gameplay

    - thought workers' actions, in particular jungle cleaning, were too cheap; it was easy to terraform Kerala into flat-out plains within half a century which should not be

    - scientific tree is interesting but lacks depth somehow; I finished it before turn 100 over a max of 300 which should not be; the other most adavnced civs would have finished it at half-game; I would suggest either increasing research cost including max time to research, or (but that is less easy) add-in a 2nd era to give that extra-kick after 1600 which I felt the scenario sort of lacked

    - liked a lot the importance of luxury ressources and the Trade Monopoly trick

    - do not know if AI is set to not aggressive but there were very few wars in the game, and in particular no inter-AI war at all from ~turn 80, onwards

    - good early balance in units, with attacking made easy by stats and artillery of prime importance; later in the game I thought rocket wallas' extreme power gave an immense advantage to the human player because they require some organization to use properly which I have not seen the AI do at all; and at some point I was too superior with my fusiliers/cavalry vs Rajput, Mughals and Safavids but that was due more to scientific leadership which I had planned in the bottom part of the tech tree from the start

    - in terms of cash I always had plenty at hand which enabled me to do a lot of rush-building early on for cheap and auto-producing infrastructures, and later on easily upgrade my vast army of musketmen/cannon; maybe some buildings in particular are a bit too cheap (I also noticed supply line seems cheaper than garrison, which should not be?)

    - colonizing empty areas was very easy (in particular, in-land Burma which felt kind of weird), maybe settler pop/shield cost could be increased

    All in all I had great fun and I would like to play again from a different perspective. I recommend increasing at least to deity if playing a European power, in particular with Portugal and EOC. The main challenge the AI put on me is when Bijapur cleverly and boldly attacked after ~20 turns when they saw me expand from Goa and tap into their cotton fields. This was the right thing to do and we had one big battle north of Goa that could have swung their way, and change the course of the game.

    Thanks a lot to Rambuchan (and all those who have helped create this), cheers!
     
  18. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    St Exupère: Hi there. Sorry for the long delay in responding. The email alerts seemed to have dropped out, so I was quite unaware of your posts till checking in now. Nevertheless, here is some feedback and response to your comments...

    Agreed :D (with thanks for your kind comments and also for all those CFC members that helped to make it so). The music, wonders and artwork were particularly enjoyable to add and full immersion was a key goal when creating this.

    Euro Power: Care to try out a Deity game to see if this is so? :mischief:

    I agree that it can get easy when playing as a European trading power. Players may want to go for higher difficulty levels and tinker with the auto-producing settings when playing as the Europeans. However, be warned, this changes somewhat if you're one of the Indian/Persian/Locals and you let the Europeans establish themselves. Things don't feel quite so easy then. Giving it a go from another perspective may change this view.
    AI Govt Switch: I vaguely recall trying to stop this happening when I was actively modding the scenario, but sadly in vain it seems. It should be possible though, in theory, but my modding skills and knowledge are somewhat rusty to lay out the method now.
    Naval Action: I too love the naval action and that's mainly due to a) LouLong's great map and b) all those wonderful ships that unit artists such as Orthanc produced.

    As you note, railroads are boring, plain and simple (although a weakened form them would be quite interesting in an extended version).
    Terraforming costs: Interesting comment and the first I've heard it mentioned. You may well have a point here and players may wish to tinker with the cost of terraforming to suit their preferences.
    Tech tree: To be honest, I had quite a bit of difficulty with this. I feel this issue arises mainly out of the differences in the four culture groups. Some cultures and civs will find it relatively easy to get through the tech tree, others will find themselves working through much slower and struggling to trade techs. Playing from another perspective may change the view of the tech tree. I have settled for what I believe was the best balance for all, but yes, the Europeans will find it somewhat easier.

    Yeah! Why don't more scenarios do this kind of thing dammit!?
    AI Aggression: Playing a few more games at different difficulties has shown me otherwise. I don't feel this needs tinkering with.
    Unit balance: I picked up these fundamentals from playing King Arthur's 'Going Viking' and also Plotinus' scenarios.

    Artillery: Aye, it is a sad fact of the game that the AI is a total klutz when it comes to artillery. Nevertheless, as mentioned in the OP and Civilopedia, gunpowder and artillery weaponry was a significant feature of warfare in the region at this time (*). So here we see the all-haloed historical accuracy working against gameplay. But I don't particularly care, artillery is fun! Especially the Rocketwalas. But players may want to lower their attack/bombardment value by one or two if they feel otherwise.

    (*) If you're interested, then you might care to check this article I wrote for the History Forum, which includes a passage on Tipu Sultan's rocket divisions in action against the British, as well as a history of the development and spread of such technology.
    Rolling in Cash: Again, here we have historical accuracy rubbing up against gameplay. The Mughals and Safavids, as well as contemporary Indian kingdoms such as Golconda, presided over vast wealth, which is what drew the Europeans to India and 'Cathay' after all. These guys were very much global, economic super powers of their day and this is reflected in the vast wealth attainable in the scenario. If you don't like it, I'm sorry. It's been left like that to give a feeling of being a decadent, uber rich, ruler lolling about with the hareem, throwing cash here there and everywhere.
    Space to colonise: I see what you're getting at here. My reason for including some empty space was to provide the rapid expansion element of play, which many civers enjoy so much. This also provides something of a strategic choice for players to make.
    Playing from a different perspective: Go for it! Many of your comments and concerns may be allayed in doing so.
    A good tip here for players stepping into European shoes.

    And thank you to you, dear St Exupère, for your wonderful game reports and thoughtful feedback. May you continue to enjoy the scenario for many games to come! :hatsoff:
     
  19. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Creator

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    Nice to see you again, Rambuchan :)
     
  20. Mentat

    Mentat Illienthir Master

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    Well let me add to the compliments.
    I am just on my way through my first EU3 Game, and I do have the feeling that the creators had a good look on the way you did that scenario Rambuchan. From my perspective, R&F of the Mughals came already quite close to what I expected from EU3 to be.

    -> So without much surprise, I started to meddle around in India & SE Asia in that first game :).
     

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