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The Rood and the Dragon - the Anglo-Saxon scenario

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Plotinus, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    The title rex anglorum was first used by the kings of Mercia, and the Wessex kings used it too it mark their claim of having taken over the Mericans claim to overlordship over all England.

    And the label "Saxons" was used as a self-designation - the Tribal Hidage calls "Wessex" West Saxena, for instance.
     
  2. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    The Tribal Hiddage only survives in medieval manuscripts, the earliest of which is from the 11th century, all of which post date the Norman conquest. It was compiled by Mercia and not any of the southern Saxons. Even so the listing for Wessex is describing the territory of the "West Saxons" and not the peoples themselves. A modern analogy would be to say they called themselves British but considered themselves to be of English stock. In other words they may have used the title "Saxon" a times for convenience but they considered themselves to have Angle heritage. "Saxon" was a word used by foreigners to describe them.
     
  3. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    I'd have to ravage my father's library for more ammunition ...

    Anyway, what, then, did the inhabitants of Wessex, Essex and Sussex call themselves prior to the Norman invasion? Why did Bede insist on dividing them into Jutes, Saxons and Angles?
     
  4. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    By this late stage I would presume simply "English".

    Good question, maybe it has more to do with a description of powerbase and geographic origin than of ethnicity? For example, there is little genetic difference between the Flemish and southern Dutch. Though, I don't think Bede can be relied upon completely, a lot of his account must be pure myth and legend. However, the word Saxon seems to have been used intermittently to describe anyone of Germanic stock, the Romans used the word simply to describe any of the Germanic pirates that hassled the south of Britain, for example. If you find anymore ammunition, fire away.
     
  5. Vostos

    Vostos Celtic God

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    I got this error when trying to unzip the file
     
  6. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    [Vostos] It certainly shouldn't do that. I think your best bet is to try downloading it again - which I know is a terrible hassle when the file's so big, but these things do sometimes pick up glitches when they download. It seems to be working all right for other people, at any rate.
     
  7. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Vostos, you should get WinRAR or WinZip to unzip the files.
     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I'm in the early 800s playing Wessex on Monarchy. I've attached a saved game from 810. I saw my first longship off the NE coast in 777. In the late 790s I had cleared the south coast of Sussex and Kent. Guess where the vikings landed? Did they land along the east coast? No. Did they land in Scotland? No. How about Essex? No. They attacked me. By 804 they had landed near the Isle of Wight. They initially landed about 20 berserkers. Over the next few years, they attacked four different places in my territory and captured three cities, which I took back in every case. Their attack came just as I was going to attack central England, so I had a big army that only had to relocate south. MY viking wars have given me four or five armies.

    In one attack, a single berserker attacked from a boat and took down one of my armies :cry:

    I still cannot keep who's who straight. Keeping my cities from disorder has been a constant chore, and I am behind in tech.
     
  9. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    [Birdjaguar] Ha! Well, you were warned, which is more than anyone was in reality... Good game, though, and I'm impressed by the empire you've carved out - I don't think I managed to take out three enemy kingdoms in any of the test games I did. I like the Grendel Slayer.

    Keeping all the cities happy can be a problem (personally I find that this is a basic flaw with Civ anyway, once you have a fair-sized empire) - note that there are only four luxuries available, so trading will probably be necessary - but there are quite a few improvements you can build to keep people happy.

    As for finding it hard to keep track of who's who, that ought to be less of a problem shortly since I am after all sorting out the diplomacy portraits. So you'll be able to have them all scowling at you, if that's your idea of fun...
     
  10. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I expect to carve out a few more hours for the game later today and I will post another save when I'm further along in my conquest. :D
     
  11. Nachos

    Nachos SEMPER IDEM

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    "The Vikings are strictly non-playable and appear only later in the game - in theory at approximately the historically correct time, if I set them up correctly."

    well, then I am very pleased and impressed
     
  12. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    As promised I *have* now sorted out the diplomacy adviser screen, and reposted the patch in the second post of this thread accordingly. Note that this patch is in two files, and if you want to download it you will need both parts; note also that this overrides the earlier patch if you downloaded *that*. The only difference between this patch and the old one is that the diplomacy adviser graphics are also added, so if you don't mind anonymity on the diplomacy adviser screen and you've already downloaded the earlier patch you don't have to bother with this one. If you *haven't* downloaded that earlier patch you will need this one. Did that make sense? Good.

    I hope very much that this will be the last such patch update before I repost the whole thing as a single file at the start of the thread. I don't think there's anything else that needs to be changed in the scenario now, so with a bit of luck I can leave it for a while now and then repost in a while when I know that nothing ghastly has cropped up.
     
  13. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Ok here is the next installment. It's now 867 AD. I tamed the vikings by finally giving them a city way to the east. They haven't bothered me since (or anyone else for that matter). Warfare ensued continuously until this last turn. At one point I had 7 civs at war with me. War weariness was terrible. I gave another city to one civ for peace. I expect it will flip back to me shortly. I crossed over 25,000 victory points this turn. Does that mean next turn I win? The new leaderheads work just fine, thanks.

    Overall its been a fun game. I will play it again, but with a better understanding of what going on. I want to see how the vilkings do when attacking the AI and how I can exploit that.

    Hmmm... my save file is 527 and the upload limit is 500. Is there another option?
     
  14. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    Can anyone give some advice on how to stop the Irish from achieving a cultural victory? (Pretty please, with a cherry on top!) I've now had three games as Wessex at Monarch and lost everyone of them to a cultural Irish victory in about 680. Even though in the last game I had conquered nearly all of the south of England, had a stash of cash and was only one tech behind the Irish. God, this is difficult! I normally play on Emperor but I can't get the hang of this one. I wouldn't actually mind being invaded by the Vikings if only I lasted that long! Anybody else having so much trouble?
     
  15. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    I was thinking of the entire period between the setting-up of the kingdoms and the Norman invasion.

    I suppose building plenty of Barrows early on should be cornerstone of any ant-Irish cultural strategy. Can't say I'm having much luck myself ...
     
  16. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    [Asclepius] That sounds *nasty*. Now, personally I'm a good Monarch player, and I can play at Emperor but tend to struggle a bit. So I tested this scenario at Monarch and found it to be a good challenge. I always try to build the maximum culture I can in all my games anyway so that style of play does suit me. It certainly should be possible to face off the Irish at Monarch - the save that Birdjaguar posted is in Monarch and he seems to be doing pretty well there (although if the Vikings do to you what they're doing to him, you might not be so keen to meet them!). But if players are having real problems with this I may have to reduce the cultural potency of the Irish by a smidgeon, or perhaps increase the culture points given by some of the Anglo-Saxon-only buildings.

    That said, I would say that the key to facing down the Irish lies in not simply building all the cultural buildings you can as early as possible (which is obvious) but going absolutely ape with the Pagan Thegns. You can get a serious culture boost from the Trophies, which could be enough to tip it. Beeline for Ring-Giving as quickly as possible and get the Warrior Hall put up pronto, and make sure to clear lots of wall space for those Trophies.

    Trying to get this part of the game right was one of the hardest things about making the scenario. To make it work I had to ensure that none of the Romano-British, the Vikings or the Picts would build enough culture to equal half of the Irish, because that would stop the Irish winning without the player having to do anything about it. But at the same time I had to try to set it so that the Irish weren't completely uncatchable, but without being overtakeable. Between them, the Irish and the Vikings - who I also had to coax considerably to get them to behave in the desired fashion - gave me the most trouble in getting everything approximately right. Much like in real life, really.
     
  17. JuuL

    JuuL Creator of

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    Wow! This is good! I've been playing as Wesses for a few hours... the first age was relatively short (which is good) and I am now preparing an attack on Domno---- (I can't remember the name).
    But I have noticed a small problem: Even though the idea about not letting the infantry units upgrade is good, it is not made properly. By using SHIFT+U I can still upgrade all the units I want to...
     
  18. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Ah, that old bug/feature ...

    @Plotinus: To make units truly unupgradably, you'd have to remove them from the upgrade chains completely, thus having them persist as buildable forever. This might hurt the AI - it's not very good at spotting a good deal when it sees one.
     
  19. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    Plotinus, thanks for the advice. I had worked out that the Warrior Hall was the key to at least getting a GA as fast as possible and I had crammed as much culture in every town I captured but...trophies? Call me a dumb ass if you will, but what trophies? My Thegns don't create "trophies", they capture a "slave" Æthling warrior. Perhaps I should have read the small print somewhere... Am I meant to sacrifice these guys in my captial or what?
     
  20. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    I installed the second patch, and when I try and load a game, it gives an error message bemoaning the lack of "art\advisors\RE_all.pcx" before shutting the game down. What gives?
     

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