The Rood and the Dragon - the Anglo-Saxon scenario

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Plotinus, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. Princeof Persia

    Princeof Persia Emperor

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    This looks really good. Especially since we are learning about this in our history class.
     
  2. Kitomakazu

    Kitomakazu Chieftain

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    I really have to post a comment on this scenario (especially since this is my 2nd time downloading it). Love it, Plotinus!

    I have to say... I have generally disliked to download player-made content in the past until I had downloaded yours (about 2 years ago when I joined this forum - as a silent lurker, heh). This was my very first player-scenario that I fell in love with.

    I became completely addicted to the stuff on this website so much that I now can't win a normal vanilla epic game (Conquests, not the vanilla Civ3 naturally) on monarch. How embarrassing! :lol:

    PS Don't take Bengal's frustration about culture-generating to the heart too deeply. It seems for me, I have the opposite. I don't think I ever saw the Irish win once or come close to winning, not that I'm saying I could beat them head-to-head in a race though. I still can only scrape by with a VP victory (and generally only with a civ that starts with 3 settlers like Wessex). I currently have a East Anglia save and while I'm not exactly dominating my neighbors, I'm doing somewhat excellent (considering how much struggle I had to get out of a double war with the Norse and Wessex calling MAs down on me twice, ow...) :whew: Plus my plot of bring the Norse to war with too many civs to wear the Norse down isn't going according to plan...:crazyeye: I have to try to run fast as I can to keep up with the Norse in capturing cities.
     
  3. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    Lower the difficulty then.
     
  4. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Retired Moderator

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    Thanks for the comments, Kitomakazu. I'm glad you've been enjoying the scenario. Yes, I think that the Irish tend to be less likely to dominate culturally on higher difficulty settings. This is because the other AI civs are more competent at keeping up with them, which means they tend not to get enough of a lead to win, even if the player doesn't do anything about it. That's a bit annoying as it makes that aspect of the game easier, not harder, but hopefully there's enough of a challenge in the rest of it to make up for that!
     
  5. Kitomakazu

    Kitomakazu Chieftain

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    Oh hush, I have a love/hate relationship with the difficulty levels, lol. I drive myself to tears in boredom if I try a level too low for me, and I go berserk in frustration when I'm trying a level too hard. Usually, that's why I tend to pick 2 different civs in 2 saves of a mod for me to play concurrently. It helps when my mood shifts from seeking an easy trip to brutal bloody challenges and then back again, thus I switch saves. I'm aware of my loonyness, meheheh. :crazyeye:
     
  6. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    So, in a nutshell, the Irish cultural advancement is more or less fixed, all that varies is the ability of the other AIs to catch up? Somehow the Irish always manage to get a different deal.
    Lower the difficulty then.
     
  7. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Retired Moderator

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    It's certainly not what I would have intended, but it seems to play out that way, as far as I can tell. Just one of the joys of the black box that is the Civ III engine: you can calibrate your input as carefully as you like, you'll never quite know what the output will be.
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    The problem is that you can give AIs extra units but not extra culture with increased difficulty. The game is really a slightly more complex than ordinary chess game in the game developers' initial conception.
     
  9. Kitomakazu

    Kitomakazu Chieftain

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    I'm very much a rookie when it comes to modding, but I have to wonder...

    For a fact, AIs do get not only extra units, they do also receive production bonuses as you go up in levels. Maybe if the Irish loses some of their base ablity to pump culture-generating improvements (I assume the Irish gets their culture from wonders and improvements rather than other methods -- like Anglo-Saxons' trophies). Theorically if you also maybe tweak the production bonuses for the AI per level, it would give the combined effect to the Irish being nerfed for the lower levels but getting stronger in the higher levels. Granted, I doubt this effect would be isolated. The AIs in the other kingdoms (and the Vikings, yikes) would be also changed to a degree however big.

    Maybe it's not worthwhile trying to rebalance all that. Your scenario is one of the best stuff. It's just an idea for whatever you intend to create in the future.
     
  10. Bengal Tiger

    Bengal Tiger Emperor

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    Production bonuses does little to nothing to increase culture. For the record, I absolutely love this scenario, and can play it fine simply by raising the culture limit. I'm not sure why I am the only one(it seems) who experiences it, as I usually play on Monarch, and build every culture building as soon as I can. Nevertheless, an extremely realistic and fun recreation of history.
     
  11. Kitomakazu

    Kitomakazu Chieftain

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    My thought on this was that how early you put in a cultral improvement (or even a wonder) is a multipler effect on your cultral rating throughout the game. Plus I noticed the Irish did manage to snag a reasonable assembly of wonders that helps very much on the cultral race for them. Oh and also how early you settle your cities (and how many) does affect you as the human player very much. Think about it, if at a higher level, the various AIs would have plenty of settlers to put up cities (then to set up improvements to generate culture), they would be able to compete with the Irish AI better. I suspect that if Irish's baseline production capacity was nerfed, they might be less likey to produce cultural bulidings as miltary needs would clamor for spots in the cities' production based on external pressure (even if the production capacity is higher or lower, regardless).

    It's possible that I'm taking the wrong approach and it could be raising the Irish's baseline production and reduce the level production bonuses (it would make Irish more fearsome in the higher levels). If that produce consisent results between level by level in difficulty gradation, I suppose we could up the culture limit since if the Irish is more progressive in the cultural race accross all levels consisently.

    Like I already said in my previous post, I'm not sure how much of my suggestions would have an impact on the AI or even if it would promote results that are heading in the right direction.
     
  12. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    There's an easy way to scale cultural output with difficulty level: Units that can be sacrificed.
     
  13. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    Give more of them at the beginning, you mean? Maybe.
     
  14. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    The diffuculty levels will give them more or less, as will the other factors (flowing from difficulty levels) that good folk have noted above.
     
  15. Jingo7

    Jingo7 Chieftain

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    Great scenario, I'm playing as Hwicce and it's damn hard!
    I really love the wanderer unit, one of the few genuinely useful 'hidden nationality' units I have used in any scenario. I like that I can wage sort of seasonal raids to capture slaves as I imagine would have happened in dark age Britain, and then as kingdoms consolidate, the wanderer becomes obsolete and replaced by standing armies, very good.
     
  16. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    And even so you can still use them for an occasional raid on neighbouring farmsteads.
     
  17. Jingo7

    Jingo7 Chieftain

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    Indeed you can.

    Been fighting Wessex as the Hwicce, then the ENTIRE norse army decides to unload at the mouth of the Severn, and declare war on me at the same time as Mercia decides to as well! -_-

    Regarding the cultural victory, the Irish always won it in my games, so I just turned it off, it's a wimpy way to win anyway :p
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    It's made to stop you being a warmongering barbarian and actually get some culture, you'll never catch up with the Oirish but you can prevent their victory.
     
  19. Jingo7

    Jingo7 Chieftain

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    Yes, call me a noob I only just found this out.
    A civ has to get double the total culture of their closest rival or something like that isn't it?

    One more point: the 'training hut' improvement seems to become obsolete at some point, but there is nothing in the pedia about it. It's ok since around that time I could build barracks' but I was just a bit baffled.
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    That's the point, you'll never win by culture but the Irish will (unless you somehow conquer them) but you might just keep within range so they never win.
     

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