The Rood and the Dragon - the Anglo-Saxon scenario
- Thread starter Plotinus
- Start date
Noooo! It is *not* meant to do that.
A little investigation has revealed that when I deleted an unwanted unit - one of the very last things I did - this changed the selection in the "enslave results in..." option for the Pagan Thegn. It is *meant* to create a Trophy. I cannot believe that slipped by me. Funny that no-one pointed out that rather glaring difference from what the Civilopedia states, too!
The idea is that sometimes the Pagan Thegn will capture a Trophy in battle. Trophies can be returned to your cities and displayed (=sacrificed) for a big culture hit. Doing this in the city with the Warrior Hall will double the culture. If no-one was doing this before I can understand now why Ireland was winning so readily.
Please accept my abject apologies for not spotting that. It goes to show that you shouldn't change anything at all after you've finished testing. I have updated the patch in the opening post (only the second file has changed if you want to redownload). I should also say that R8XFT has offered to do some extra graphics for the scenario, so once that is done the genuinely final version will be posted at the start. Thank you for bearing with me: I didn't mean for there to be a "beta" period but it looks like I've had one after all!
A little investigation has revealed that when I deleted an unwanted unit - one of the very last things I did - this changed the selection in the "enslave results in..." option for the Pagan Thegn. It is *meant* to create a Trophy. I cannot believe that slipped by me. Funny that no-one pointed out that rather glaring difference from what the Civilopedia states, too!
The idea is that sometimes the Pagan Thegn will capture a Trophy in battle. Trophies can be returned to your cities and displayed (=sacrificed) for a big culture hit. Doing this in the city with the Warrior Hall will double the culture. If no-one was doing this before I can understand now why Ireland was winning so readily.
Please accept my abject apologies for not spotting that. It goes to show that you shouldn't change anything at all after you've finished testing. I have updated the patch in the opening post (only the second file has changed if you want to redownload). I should also say that R8XFT has offered to do some extra graphics for the scenario, so once that is done the genuinely final version will be posted at the start. Thank you for bearing with me: I didn't mean for there to be a "beta" period but it looks like I've had one after all!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
First law of QA: It'll take longer than expected.
2nd law of QA: Some things will slip thru anyway.
2nd law of QA: Some things will slip thru anyway.
[TLC] I don't know why it's doing that, as the file in question is certainly included in the first patch file (I just downloaded it myself to check). Could you have somehow misplaced it?
This is the diplomacy screen file for Offa of Mercia, so if anyone else has downloaded this patch but can still see Offa on this screen, then the error must be somewhere at your end, I fear.
This is the diplomacy screen file for Offa of Mercia, so if anyone else has downloaded this patch but can still see Offa on this screen, then the error must be somewhere at your end, I fear.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I DL'd the patches again, overwrote the old files, and now it works. Corrupted DLs, perhaps. Well, the main thing is it works now.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
But I seem to've encountered another bizarre bug - when I captured Wisbech, both the Ealh and the Warrior Hall failed to be destroyed. That's not meant to happen, is it? In any case, I appear to have two functioning Warrior Halls now ...
[TLC] I didn't know that could *ever* happen in Civ - culture-producing buildings being retained on capture. I tried it out just now in debug mode and captured Warrior Halls were destroyed as they should be. Still, I wouldn't worry about it. Must be just one of those freak things. You can have twice as many thegns now...
[JuuL] I didn't know about that - er - "feature" of Civ, so it looks like I shall have to make everything upgradeable after all. In which case, I authorise you to SHIFT-U after all...
[JuuL] I didn't know about that - er - "feature" of Civ, so it looks like I shall have to make everything upgradeable after all. In which case, I authorise you to SHIFT-U after all...
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
It's probably worth noting that both buildings stopped producing culture, just like captured Great Wonders. I've never heard of anything like it - still less seen anything like it before myself - either.
Trophies? Warrior Hall? I guess I need to read the civilopedia. Is there a way to post the larger than allowed save game file? Or reduce the file? Will a zip file post OK?
I should think you can zip it and post that without difficulty.
Dear me - all those civilopedia entries I did and no-one spotted such a big discrepancy! I'm glad that people still liked the scenario even without the Trophies, though, which I thought were one of the best bits. Try the updated version and see what you think of that.
Dear me - all those civilopedia entries I did and no-one spotted such a big discrepancy! I'm glad that people still liked the scenario even without the Trophies, though, which I thought were one of the best bits. Try the updated version and see what you think of that.
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
Great Scenario, Plotinus. You clearly put a lot of work into this. Too bad my Heathen Northumbrians have to convert down the road. Having a great deal of fun so far and am at year 680. Thank you for putting together this wonderful scenario!
PS No bugs, no problems so far with both patches in.
PS No bugs, no problems so far with both patches in.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
(Notice that the Trophies don't turn up unless you start a new game - running your old saves after installing the patch doesn't change unit abilities.)
I've now reached 723, and just annexed East Anglia proper, whereupon I concluded a peace treaty rather than try and capture the stupid town the East Anglians have built somewhere way up north (its contribution to the war as sending one Franciscaman down thru Deira, only to be killed off for no Mercian losses). I'm currently undergoing a revolution to Christian Monarchy, and the next item on the agenda is to convince the Hwicce that they're better off under Mercian overlordship.
On score and power, it's Ireland way above everyone else, then the Welsh, Dumnonians and Picts, then the three big Anglo-Saxon kingdoms - Northumbria, Mercia and Essex. Then everyone else, with Wessex(!) and Lindsey at the bottom. In VPs, it's Ireland in the top again, but with Mercia as number two, since I've got a whopping 4800 VPs (over half my VP total) for conquering cities, something no-one else has had much luck with. I seem to be staving off an Irish cultural victory even without trophies. Of course, no-one's heard anything of the Vikings yet.
I've now reached 723, and just annexed East Anglia proper, whereupon I concluded a peace treaty rather than try and capture the stupid town the East Anglians have built somewhere way up north (its contribution to the war as sending one Franciscaman down thru Deira, only to be killed off for no Mercian losses). I'm currently undergoing a revolution to Christian Monarchy, and the next item on the agenda is to convince the Hwicce that they're better off under Mercian overlordship.
On score and power, it's Ireland way above everyone else, then the Welsh, Dumnonians and Picts, then the three big Anglo-Saxon kingdoms - Northumbria, Mercia and Essex. Then everyone else, with Wessex(!) and Lindsey at the bottom. In VPs, it's Ireland in the top again, but with Mercia as number two, since I've got a whopping 4800 VPs (over half my VP total) for conquering cities, something no-one else has had much luck with. I seem to be staving off an Irish cultural victory even without trophies. Of course, no-one's heard anything of the Vikings yet.
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
Plotinus said:
I take that back...I just had my game end due to the lack of the Seafarer splash...I had installed both patches and I rechecked both to make sure there was a Seafarer splash in there, but I do not see one. Anyone else had this problem?
*Right* - that's what happens when you leave previous versions lying around and everything's got the same name. Patch updated (again, just the second half) - don't worry about being unable to find a relevant splash picture because it uses a standard Civ one (although I think this may be changed in the final, final version). If there are any bugs left in this damn thing after the thorough testing-to-destruction it's had in the last couple of days I'll be amazed. Lucky I've been working from home, too - although perhaps not so lucky for work...
Thanks for the compliments, Hrafnkell. I'm glad you're enjoying it!
Thanks for the compliments, Hrafnkell. I'm glad you're enjoying it!
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
Hey, no complaints from me. I think you've done a mighty fine job. This is far superior to the scenarios the Firaxis people did with C3C. I thought every one of them was lame. I think the only thing I'd like to see changed so far is Abe Lincoln's ugly mug (seeing him circa 700 CE really throws me off) and Otto "Seeking a Place in the Sun" Bismarck. Otherwise, I'm good to go. Downloading the patch right now and having another go at it!! 
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
(Actually, Bismarck was not in favour of seeking a "Place in the Sun" - that was William II's thing, and one of the reasons he eventually had Bismarck step down.)
Sometimes I feel a little sorry for those who made the official C3C scenarios - all they ever hear, on this forum at least, is that fan-made scenarios are better. I wouldn't characterize the official scenarios as "lame" (OK, a couple of them were lame). What's a shame is that they care so little for historical accuracy - sceanarios such as this prove that much greater historical accuracy does not have to be bought at the cost of playability.
Sometimes I feel a little sorry for those who made the official C3C scenarios - all they ever hear, on this forum at least, is that fan-made scenarios are better. I wouldn't characterize the official scenarios as "lame" (OK, a couple of them were lame). What's a shame is that they care so little for historical accuracy - sceanarios such as this prove that much greater historical accuracy does not have to be bought at the cost of playability.
Well, I had a lot of fun with the Firaxis scenarios, some of which were a real blast: I think they could never really come up to the amazingly high standards of some of us on these forums! Their creators clearly went for fun over accuracy, and that's probably the wise decision for a commercial product. So I like to think that scenario-creation is the act of supplementing those rather than replacing them. Most of us are obsessives one way or another (hence the site's name!) and so the scenarios that we create or like are likely to be a bit different in character. It's splendid that my scenario - despite the presence of Roman water-pipes and Anglo-Saxon cavalry (I was stretching it a bit for both of those) - is considered to meet these high ideals, and by no less than the walking encyclopaedia TLC!
I'm glad you like it, anyway. In my defence I should say that this is the first thing I've created for Civ - indeed, the first "computer" thing I've created since I gave up attempting to program my trusty Amiga about seven years ago. So perhaps it's a miracle it's worked as well as it has.
By the way, I used Abe deliberately - not just because he looked about right in the ancient age - but as a kind of joke, because Lindsey's chief city is actually Lincoln. Yes, it's not a *very* good joke, I know. Did I say it was?
I'm glad you like it, anyway. In my defence I should say that this is the first thing I've created for Civ - indeed, the first "computer" thing I've created since I gave up attempting to program my trusty Amiga about seven years ago. So perhaps it's a miracle it's worked as well as it has.
By the way, I used Abe deliberately - not just because he looked about right in the ancient age - but as a kind of joke, because Lindsey's chief city is actually Lincoln. Yes, it's not a *very* good joke, I know. Did I say it was?
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
The Last Conformist said:
"Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." In the spirit of Otto von Bismarck (who did say this) I accept the correction. You are right; it was Wilhelm II.
On the other hand, I stand by my contention that the scenarios included in C3C were lame. I like historical accuracy, and where that cannot be obtained to a high degree, at least a bit of "chrome" that recaptures the nature of the era or of the war being portrayed. XTR's "Command" Magazine was very good at producing table top wargames that met these criteria. Of course, as pointed out elsewhere, we all have our opinions and these are merely mine. But you are right in that scenarios like this prove that you can have playability AND realism.
I'm sure they're tired of hearing complaints, but then IMHO the complaints were and are justified. Make a better product and get fewer complaints. It's really very simple. The people on this forum have done with C3C what Firaxis should have done in the first place. Firaxis has a great product but they've never taken it to its full potential. I hope they correct that defect in Civ4.
As for this scenario, I found another bug for you, Plotinus! Just thought I'd pass it on for your edification.
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