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The SINGLE MOST important change in the new PATCH RE: MULTIPLAYER

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Multiplayer' started by swordspider, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

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    And here it is peeps, this will effectively change the ENTIRE SCOPE of the multiplayer experience:

    > Can no longer promote a unit that has fought during the turn (instead, the promotion comes up the beginning of the following turn).

    -and-

    > Promotions must be picked the turn they're earned. (no stacking promotions).

    And there you have it. Sure, it may not seem like a big deal at first pass, but I assure you this is the night/day change of the multiplayer experience. If you don't know why, you're a noob; but, I'll explain it anyway because I have EXPLOITED it (yet I am 100% happy to see it go, I simply exploited it to remain 'even' on the playfield since everyone else exploited it too!).

    Here's why: You'll no longer be able to instantly heal like 10 times in a row in a battle. I have won many, many games because I have 4-5 or more upgrades cued when one of my units attacks an opponent; effectively making him the equivalent of bringing in 4-5 units! You used to be able to leave a warrior on a hill (with forest) and the barbiess alone would get him up to 5 upgrades and then he can become warrior > swordsman > longswordsman etc and wreck havoc. If you don't agree with me that this is the biggest change (again for MULTIPLAYER only) you're wrong. This will effectively stop/minimize rushes and make the early game much, much longer. It will also promote 'veteran' units that you will pull out of battle to protect because they are so wickedly upgraded you can't bear to lose them. I really think this will make the gameplay so much more enjoyable and both strategic and tactical.

    Sure, you can still game it a bit because you WILL get upgrades when attacking a city and they WILL happen when your guy is almost dead, BUT, that will be once or maybe twice and only on certain units, so it will be the luck of the draw. You won't see a guy attack every turn though and heal each time for 6 turns in a row anymore, that is for sure!!!

    A couple other big items multiplayers should note:

    YOU CAN STOP YOUR HORSEMAN RANT THREADS NOW!
    > All melee horse units get penalty attacking cities.
    > Lowered combat value of Horseman and Companion Cavalry.
    Summary: You're not going to be able to rush a capital city with a general and two horses anymore and take it down. Plus, that was tied heavily with the healing upgrade anyway, so that will be gone too. This change though makes IRON a very, very important resource.

    SORRY, NO MORE CATAPULT SUPER-DEFENSIVES.
    > Both Reduced effectiveness VS cities
    > And Siege Reduced effectiveness VS units
    Summary: Got to love the guy who used to make 5 catapults and use them as the ultimate defensive weapon in his cities. Well, that ain't going to work very well anymore. Likewise, you won't see China with 1 Swordsman, 5 Chu-ko-nu's, and a General take out an entire civilization. Granted, they will still be deadly as hell, but not vs. the cities.

    THERE IS A LITTLE LESS HONOR IN THE HONOR TREE.
    > Reduced some combat bonuses: flanking (15 to 10), Great Generals (25 to 20), Discipline (15 to 10), Military Tradition (2x to 1.5x)
    Summary: This is a big deal for those who like to war, and for those that are their victims! Between the General and Discipline alone, you've shaved off a 10% bonus. Might not seem like a lot, but that adds up really quick in a war!

    CAVALRY CAN GO BOOM, TOO!
    > Cavalry now upgrade to tanks.
    Summary: maybe not a 'huge' deal, but a nice addition so now your 'horse' units are not completely useless after they upgrade; Horsemen > Knights > Cavalry > TANKS!

    NO MORE MARITIME GOURMET SHOPS
    > Reduced bonuses from Maritime city-states - Friends: +2 food in capital, +0 food in other cities - Allies: +3 food in capital, +1 food in other cities
    Summary: for those that used the maritime tactic, this is a huge blow! for those that didn't, no big deal right? Wrong, if someone else was using it you were at a huge disadvantage. Like the Horsemen, although I loved using this tactic, it needed to be nerfed. If you didn't know the tactic, suffice to say you could 'pay' your way to the equivalent of 2 free food tiles in your cities! Talk about cheap extra growth!

    HELP OUT THE LITTLE PEOPLE, BROTHER.
    > Killing a barb inside a city-state's territory now gives a 5-turn buffer where there is no Influence intrusion penalty.
    Summary: Again, not a big deal, but a great addition if you are actually trying to help a city state. Used to be if you attacked a barb you would go positive that turn, but since you couldn't get out of their territory, you eliminated it next turn which gave you no benefit at all. Now you may be able to 'protect' a city-state early game with a spear or axe and actually get them to like you (or better yet, protect them later to keep your influence up!).

    THE END OF THE SPAMILIZATIONS
    > If an empire reaches -20 Happiness, it goes into revolt, and rebels start appearing throughout the empire, based on the number of cities.
    > Liberty now provides a Settler training bonus to only the capital, and not every city.
    Summary: No more 'spamilizations' where someone pumps out 7 cities in 1000BC and then 'catches up' to them with happiness by farming those cities resources. People will be forced to expand strategically and carefully. I'm REALLY curious to see who the 'rebels' are! Are they your units turned against you or are they random spawns, and if so, how strong?

    CULTURE IN ALL THE RIGHT PLACES.
    > Players must now always adopt Policies immediately, and cannot defer picking until later.
    > Have culture cost for policies never go down (trading away cities to reduce culture cost exploit). Razing cities will not raise your policy cost ceiling.
    Summary: You can't hold out your policies early game to see if you get attacked or not, and you likewise can't hold out your policies until you can research your way to your desired path. You also can't do the ultra-cheap city-trade to culture up, nor will you be penalized for your military offensive when razing pwned cities.


    Well, that's my take on it anyway. Hope to see you in a game. Don't worry, this won't make me any less deadly, in case you were wondering, because I know a few of you out there are plotting to exact revenge on me. :)



    Source of this upgrade data: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402271
     
  2. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    No specialist slot available from library is a big change for multiplayer as well. It will become impossible to make an hard beeline to steel and get longswordmen before turn 55. No more army of 5-6 of them entering ennemy territory around turn 60-70. One specialist slot instead of 2 would be more balanced.

    But overall it's good changes. Yes iron gonna be lot more precious to get and no insta-heal on same turn will help to wipe injured units before they activate the ''karma'' button.

    That said, which civilization will be better after the patch for multiplayer?
     
  3. Moineau

    Moineau Chieftain

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    Who cares of that, you cant play with more than 6 without lag.
     
  4. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

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    Agreed, that is an important change as well, although I still have had 5-6 longswordmen rolling into enemy territory on turn 70 without using specialists- you just have to save your money for upgrading them is the trick there (and of course going the direct route to steel).

    If you're having a problem with a longsword rush, obviously having your own is the best defense, but if you only have a few, having your own with a cadre of archers behind him is pretty key too. Also, with the new unit fast-heal being removed, I think you will find A) a lot less rushes, B) the defense of those rushes being MUCH easier, and C) the players who like to rush finding out real quick that rushing will now leave you open to devastating counter attacks (which may eliminate rushing altogether!).

    As for the civs, I'm still partial to China because they fit my play-style (they have a good strong economy, good early research and cash through papermakers, and there can be hell to pay when they go to war.) But, I imagine there will be a strong emergence of new-found exploits from some of the other civs with these changes, there always are. Here's a good thread on that: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402559
     
  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    :lol:

    I assume you wanted more tweaks on the speed of the game itself...maybe in a future expansion.
     
  6. E66man

    E66man Warlord

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    The lag and lobby crashes dwarfs any other issue into insignificance, so multi-player will still be unplayable after the patch as far as I'm concerned.

    That said, since I only very seldom saved promotions for insta-healing, I don't see those changes or the Horseman/siege changes really making a difference in how my games play out. The combat bonus changes however might make a difference since maybe I won't be able to capture a city with 4 - 5 units without some losses.
     
  7. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

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    First off, this thread is about 'gameplay' assuming you can play the game ok. It's not about connections and the like. You can b*tch about that in the other negative sections of this website, I'm trying to talk about the game itself, not how bad it sucks like everyone else wants to. I have very little trouble with the multiplayer platform so not everyone is getting screwed.

    Second off, you must not have played in any highly competitive games because the healing is hands-down the biggest deal in a battle. I haven't lost a single multiplayer game in over 3 weeks and it is 100% due to the easyness of early rushing (taking out the closest player and building in their space) and then the healing aspect (deathless attack warriors = pwned defender). So, if you don't think it makes a difference, I'd suggest playing me in a duel, and I will happily show you why it surely does. With the patch, people will have to play with more strategy and the overall experience will get much better. I am very much looking forward to it because the current setup of attack first or be attacked is getting old.

    Here, if you want to rant about how horrible the game is and how terrible the multiplayer is, go here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402484
     
  8. Kyp Durron

    Kyp Durron CP5

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    Now about this winning streak of yours, When are you going to play some real competition at www.civplayers.com?

    I assure you no winning streak is safe.

    Add me on steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/dabraves/home
    And we can get to work on your losing streak :)
     
  9. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    I don't play often enough to play in a ladder. Did that years ago and i played the game to death(Tiger Woods PGA tour 2004-2008 for PC). I was first in rankings overall over 10 000 players for a long period of time.

    I know the feelings about beating the best players and all what is engage. But i have more responsabilities today with girlfriend, work, house, kids, etc. Just want to make friends through steam and play occasionnally with good folks.

    But for players with lot of time to play and ''full of testosterone'' this is the way to go. :goodjob:
     
  10. Kyp Durron

    Kyp Durron CP5

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    Not to seem like I'm spamming for the ladder. But screw that rankings, play with us for the highlighted part of your message. Plus gives us new competition.
     
  11. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Ok ok i registered :). But don't count on me to play often :p
     
  12. E66man

    E66man Warlord

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    I apologize, I didn't realize one sentence counted as a 'rant'.
     
  13. Kyp Durron

    Kyp Durron CP5

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    Yay! Will keep my eyes open for you. Feel free to add me on steam, I posted link in thread somewhere.
     
  14. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

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    I'll look for you too secondsaber87, I don't like to get into anything 'organized' though, I'm a free-floater. :)
     
  15. Toady

    Toady Chieftain

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    How about El Dorado 500 gold bonus and Fountain of Youth Health Regen PermaBonus... how's them apples for you?
     
  16. Deussu

    Deussu The Omniscient

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    I consider iron to be too vital now. With mounted units severely nerfed, iron is the key for longswordmen and frigates. Caravels are no match for frigates, and knights will eventually fall against longswordmen due to their "no defensive bonuses" feature.

    Iron, in fact, should be a way more abundant resourse compared to others. A civilization without iron can only dream of going to war, until it gets musketmen, cannons, and destroyers.

    A bit off-topic, but longswordmen should have their strength dropped to 15 or 16 IMHO.
     
  17. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Before patch it would be correct because it was easy to get steel tech without any sacrifice with help of specialist slots from library. Now it's more balanced with 18 of strengh since you get them later and need to sacrifice some growth(happiness,etc) to beeline them.
     

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