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The situation on the other continent

Discussion in 'Eagles' started by CharlemagneXLII, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. CharlemagneXLII

    CharlemagneXLII Prince

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    The Brotherhood and Anarchy have both sent us messages within a few hours of each other asking for deals. It seems their deal for the Republic did not go as planned. These messages also involve Kuche. Rather than have the discussion split into three embassies, I figured we could have it here. Here are the messages:

    From the Brotherhood:
    Spoiler :


    From Anarchy:
    Spoiler :


    I think we should aim to keep these two at each other's throats, maybe even ally with one. We need to send a message to Kuche with Anarchy's messages attached, and ask them for their opinion. Something like this:

    It couldn't hurt to tell Anarchy of our similar deal with the Brotherhood that fell through.
     
  2. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

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    It's going to be a busy weekend mostly away from the computer for me, but my quick thoughts -

    The Brotherhood apparently will have Republic within 1-2 turns. Kuche I think will not have it for 10+ turns. If we could get Republic earlier than most tribes, then it would be great, but it sounds as if if we get it, then the Kuche gets it, and only Anarchie would lack it. The Brotherhood would probably be able to swallow Anarchie too quickly.

    If we wait for Republic, then we are one of 3 without it. I don't want a real 3 vs. 1 against The Brotherhood because we can't have Anarchie own their continent, but I think I would prefer to isolate the Brotherhood diplomatically.

    I think our goal should be to work closely with Kuche, throw Anarchie enough bones to keep them from working with the Brotherhood, and avoid trades with the Brotherhood.
     
  3. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I wish I had read the Anarchy thread before the Brotherhood thread. That puts their offer in a different light; makes it seem sort of desperate.

    Great diplomacy; making all your neighbors upset with you in just a handful of turns.

    Looks like the Brotherhood beelined to Republic so they could sell it around (good strategy) but then their salesman got kicked out the stores. That has made the rest of the world Annoyed/Furious with them and now they have a problem. No trades, no friends and possibly no future.
     
  4. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    I agree with Chamnix. We don't want either of them to control their continent, but I would prefer that they don't work together either. I'd like to see minimal trading between Us/Kuche and Anarchie, but not too much.
     
  5. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    I think there is a war brewing on the other continent and both teams are concerned about getting dog piled.

    This statement made by Anarchy stands out:

    "We want you as our allies in a 3 vs 1 against the Knights. We do need a long term NAP (non-aggression pact), because we are afraid, that if you are on our continent with your troops we are the natural aim of your forces"

    Why do they want a NAP? Either they're worried we'll send troops to their continent to help the Brotherhood destroy them or they're worried that the troops we have on their continent after the Brotherhood is defeated will then be used to destroy them.
     
  6. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Sorry, I am also having a very busy weekend.

    But I think we have a bit of time to negotiate things, as no tech is close to completion right now.
     
  7. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    A response from the Kitchen about the Brotherhood's proposal.....

    Dear Calis of the Flock,

    you have probably received the Knights’ proposal to break our current alliance in order to join us. It seems that they wish to isolate the Anarchos and problaby launch a military attack against them. You won't be surprised that we neither prefer to violate our arrangement nor to form a situation where one tribe is facing three tribes working against it.

    How do you think about the proposal? We would like to decline it.

    Best wishes,

    yours sincerely, Cotta the flavour enhancer
     
  8. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    "It seems that they wish to isolate the Anarchos and problaby launch a military attack against them."

    Yes, and Anarchy likely wants to do the exact same thing to the Brotherhood.


    "You won't be surprised that we neither prefer to violate our arrangement nor to form a situation where one tribe is facing three tribes working against it."

    I'm not necessarily opposed to 3 vs 1 as long as the 1 isn't us. :lol:

    Getting a foothold on the other continent wouldn't be a bad thing but we don't have the resources at this point to fight and hold territory that far away. It would be better to continue filling in our own continent while the Brotherhood and Anarchy wear each other down.
     
  9. CharlemagneXLII

    CharlemagneXLII Prince

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    Here's a reply we can send to Kuche:
    If we want to get a 2 vs. 1 vs. 1, what would be the best way to do that? We could say yes to both teams and betray one or both of them, or say yes to one team (Anarchy). If we spurn both teams, they will probably ally.
     
  10. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Thank you. I just posted it.
     
  11. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I get the feeling that the Brotherhood and the Anarchie are feigning discontent in an attempt to manipulate our continent.

    The Anarchie just claimed that the BH is researching Map Making, yet BH is asking for MM in its deal proposal. The Anarchie claims an alliance with the BH is readily available to them, in fact half the team is still leaning in that direction. They've made a deal and are apparently unhappy with some re-negotiations, that's understandable. A little rub there. But cause to declare a 3 vs 1? They have no Army, so a non-aggression pact with our continent is strongly desired by them, but they are in no shape to take on the BH in any fashion.

    The BH is set now with Republic, ready to go into Anarchy and change governments. They want to barter for the remaining AA techs so they can jetison of into the MA. By gleaning any extra gpt we have, they can slow our research. Plus with a long term NAP, it will be smooth sailing for them until they hake Pikes and Knights.

    They know we have allied with the Kitchen. Probably their best course of action is to ally themselves and have the continents race to technological sumpremecy, if possible. So they make a deal. BH remains smaller while letting their population grow, and producing Warriors to bump up their military numbers. The Anarchie expands like crazy. They have been promised the Republic and do not feel the need to produce military or research technology. Just expand like crazy.

    Then they bombard us with long proposals, malcontent, and long peace treaties. Trying to throw a wrench in our gears while they shift gears, claiming we're not negotiating with them, and publically ally as a strong and powerful continent.

    I think we showed play isolationists and ignore their requests all together. We can feign involvement and concern, but shouldn't sign any deals. Hopefully, BH will respond to our latest communication and spill some truth in our direction. Not that it will change my opinion, but it will let us understand history a little better.
     
  12. CharlemagneXLII

    CharlemagneXLII Prince

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    Well, no truth from the hood. If Anarchie will give us literature for republic, I think it's a deal we should take, as they would get republic by allying with the Brotherhood in any case. If that doesn't win, I think we can do well with a 2 vs. 2, we have better relations with Kuche (probably, unless your theory is correct), and we have Dromons. We might be a little behind right now, but we're capable of getting that advantage by burning stuff (not our stuff).
     
  13. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    Perhaps we should accept Anarchie's invitation to review their diplomatic traffic:

    "As the Knights are very likely already spreading bad talk about us, we invite you: If you have any doubt that we are speaking the truth, just ask, and we will publish the diplomac traffic between the free people and the Knights the embassy as proof, for example the contracts they breached and their "justification" (but since that's hundreds of individual messages, we'd have to skip some for practical reasons)."

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10588961&postcount=54
     
  14. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    All we really need to know about is the Republic. That can be sent to the BH as a specific item to reference for us.

    Although you seem very content with Anarchie's diplomacy, I think receiving selective passages "for practical reasons", is again a bad idea. You want to give them the opportunity to snip and paste together their own glorious history. For free none-the-less. How courteous of the Anarchie.

    I never implied we were going to give the BH anything for their information beyond some points in the positive column. That should suffice. We have a communication ongoing with them, let's see what pans out.
     
  15. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    We played a turn on the 6th of June and we just played the following turn about an hour ago. Just so everyone is on the same page, The Brotherhood is in revolt to a Republic.
     

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  16. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    As far as I can see, we have nothing to lose if we accept Anarchie's offer to show us the diplomatic traffic.

    At best, it may tip us off that something shady is going on or at least give us a clearer picture of the situation. At worst, we'll decide it's nothing but propaganda and be no better off than we currently are.

    The BH has only offered to give us info on the tech trades in exchange for info on our own tech trades. Anarchie will likely give us the same info and perhaps more for nothing. So, I'd rather see us keep them both in the dark about our own trades while trying to gather some useful info from Anarchie.
     
  17. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    That's if you do the deal, not if I do the deal.
    Yeah, in your dreams. Do you really think these teams are going to say the same thing? How closely matched were our thoughts to the BH on our tech relations.
    EC, that's what we're trying to do. Just hold you horses till we get some info from the BH.
     
  18. EvilConqueror

    EvilConqueror Warlord

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    I'll try.

     

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