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The Spanish Reconquista (RCQ)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by LouLong, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    - You probably did not install the patch (pediaicons and civilopedia texts)
    - ok. If you have other remarks regarding cities (spelling, place, historical accuracy ... or not,...) please tell.
    - Yep guess I will add 2 cities there myself but one line below so they show properly.
    - that is an important game play issue. I made a choice of having weak defensive units but with walls and level2 cities giving very strong bonus. This is not set for ever but I want to have many opinions and reports before rethinking this system. So I take note and wait for other reports.
     
  2. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    So should I give Jaca to Aragon-Barcelona or simply move the capital to Huesca ? One issue here is I joined Aragon and Barcelona as they would soon be just one. And Navarra might be to small without Jaca (for gameplay reasons) as it is already very small.

    About moving to Zaragossa that's up to the player (either human or AI (albeit AI never moves the capital by itself in my experience).
    Since capitals usually moved south during the reconquista I have made the palace quite cheap to build but maybe I still need to make it cheaper.

    Sorry to bounce back on the question of easy conquest among Christians in this post but indeed it is a problem for civs that have thin lands stretching south (Portugal, Castilla, Leon). In one turn the attacker can usually take cities of the other civ. It can be a problem I agree. Maybe I will limit movement on roads to 3 from 4 (I had chosen 4 because the scale is different from regular Civ and to allow fast movements North-South but then of course it works East-West as well which is not great).

    Need more reports and opinions.
     
  3. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    As you say it is a problem of representing 2 invasion forces. I guess it could be done but it would be real complicated for a poor result (I know since I started to work that way). I might change the taifas version a bit to represent that but I cannot garantee the results at all.
    Since the scenario ends in 1492 I tried to represent the important civs of that period regardless of the importance of one or another during a limited time as it could nt be represented. For that we would need triggers and events. In Civ IV maybe ?
    But rest assured this is not by default of research or informations. It is merely a choice between gameplay and realism. The balance is not perfect and other people might have done very differently but well I had to make choices and made them, albeit I am opened to propositions to enhance the scenario.
     
  4. Poser2U

    Poser2U Chieftain

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    I downloaded the v1.1.
    I must tell you that you have done a very nice job.

    But since it still requires some improvents I be giving my feedback.

    Some times the game crashes after I try to see stuff in the Civilopedia
    Most of the crahes so far are related to trying to see the resourses.
    Probably it's because I don't have installed the latest update.

    Some problems in the resourses (I think):

    _Seafood is allways visible on the map but I don't see it :mad:

    _Iron is required to build certain units.
    Still I don't get how we are supose to get iron since to get to see it it says that you have to recearch Iron Working.
    And Iron Working isn't in the tech tree of none of the civilization I tested.

    _I couldn't find a way to play with the pirates (I ask this because I think I read that it would be possible but I might be wrong, well I just like to defend lost causes)

    _Small typo error in the civilopedia (probably there are more but it's normal I guess since it is already written a lot of information)

    In the Juderia description I think that instead of :
    "because they appeared reach"
    it should be:
    ... because they appeared rich ...
    (Or I don't get your point there :blush: )
     
  5. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    BTW why is the msulim tech tree so small, compared to the christian?
     
  6. eddie_verdde

    eddie_verdde Warlord

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    now I got confused :) since I thought we needed Iron to build swordsmen. I'm playing with Portugal and so far I can't build swordsmen. A strange thing happens: for instance I select a city and I build a granary or other improvement. When the granary is finished the computer automatically changes the construction to swordsmen, but if I change it to levy or anything else, the swordsmen dissapears from the list and I cannot build it anymore.

    About the wine issue, that was an elegant solution to this problem, Loulong

    Yoda Power when I mentioned those 4 wonders back there I was asking what are the benefits for the civ that owns them, not if the game crashes or not :)

    Loulong I can't wait to see the river Mondego in the new map after all it's the river of my homecity :)
     
  7. dylanhatesyou

    dylanhatesyou Warlord

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    Sorry if this is immature or off-topic, I just giggled when I read that statement. :lol:
     
  8. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    No pb, except I don't have a clue about what you are talking about.
    I am no native English speaker and it might be the reason why I miss the fun... Care to enlighten me ?
     
  9. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    v 1.2 uploaded !

    It changes the geography slightly, adds pedia informations, corrects some bugs and typos (indeed it was "rich" and not "reach" lol).
    For it to work you need both the biq and to update/replace the text files by the ones in the patch.

    I cannot fix the bug when you click on strategic resources yet because I still don't know what causes it (lack of error report from C3C).
    About seafood the pb is I am not sure whether it is needed or not so I don't want to erase it.
    On the other hand I have cleant the resource table a bit.

    Apart from the bugs (important) I am also in need of global game reports to see how the AIs react, about balance,....

    Another question as IIRC someone mentionned the Order of Santiago in another thread : is it an important order as Calatrava/Aviz/Al Cantara ?

    @ Yoda : the Muslim tech-tree is not complete. But it won't be that much bigger. Because 1/ Christians evolved more than the Muslims during that period (albeit the latter started with an advance) 2/ lack of infos or understanding about the Muslim techs/evolution ??? 3/ I am a racist, don't know/don't care about the Muslims ??? (considering the infos on some Muslim buildings, social organization,... I gues/hope one can discard the third option).
     
  10. Hrafnkell

    Hrafnkell Alheithinn

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    I think you did an excellent job with the scenario, Loulong. Civ just has so many limitations that as people have said here before, it's difficult to create a historical simulation with it. I hope Civ IV does resolve some of these issues. I think as far as gameplay and realism the choices you made work well. I was surprised the other day to have Provence wipe France from the face of the earth, however.

    One thing I'd like to see and I've not played the Christian kingdoms as much yet so forgive me if they're already incorporated, is English mercenaries, the free companies that served in the peninsula after the 100 Years War. I also agree that Santiago would be a good choice for a knightly order.

    I'll download the pach and try to play again sometime today. I've taken some inspiration from your scenarios and will take what I've learned to heart as I revamp Hellenstic Kingdoms and try to get it finished. I appreciate your helpful advice there as well.
     
  11. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    What :confused:. None of posts was a response to you? What exactly are you answering?

    LL- I see.
     
  12. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    Yoda : since you come back from there, do you have ideas regarding the late Muslim tech-tree ? Do you think I made them too weak during the later periods ?

    At the moment I plan to add "paria" (tributes) that shows gold (I have added gold on the map but not the tech yet) necessary for creating some Christian improvements (= needs trading), slave with gunpowder (saboteur or if you prefer like the Uruk-Hai at the battle of Helm's deep lol), and gunpowder units (foot and mounted).

    And another Christian unit : the first gunpowder mounted unit.
     
  13. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Nah not really.
     
  14. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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  15. eddie_verdde

    eddie_verdde Warlord

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    after playing 15 turns, the Almoravids have nearly amassed 10,000 VP which gives 20% of the limit VP in 7% of the time limit, and if you consider that their VP will increase exponentially due to the control of VP locations, I doubt that the game will last more than 100 turns because the Almoravids will reach the 50,000 VP very quickly. What do you think of this? I have a suggestion but I have no idea how this could be done: if the Almoravids loose more than a limit number of cities, their empire should be dissolved and converted into 3 or 4 new nations....this would also turn the game more accurate since southern Spain was at same point divided into several small Muslim states...


    Other thing: I've just downloaded version 1.2 but I still have problems with building Swordsmen, the same problems I described in my last post.

    BTW LouLong I think you meant warrior-COLONISTS instead of warrior-colons, since "colon", I believe, is the part of the human body where feces are produced, hence the dylanhatesyou giggles...:D
     
  16. Swiss Bezerker

    Swiss Bezerker Emperor

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    Cant wait to download it!
     
  17. Hrafnkell

    Hrafnkell Alheithinn

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    Here are the Spanish religious orders, Loulong:

    Santiago White habit until early 15c then black has red espada*
    Calatrava White habit until the end of 14c then grey or black with red fleury cross**
    Alcantara White habit green fleury cross until end of 14c then civvies
    Avis White habit green fleury cross
    Sao Thiago White habit red espada*
    Montesa White habit black cross until 1400 there after red
    Knights of Christ White habit red cross with white twist in middle



    *An Espada is a device shaped like a sword with fleur-de-lis at the end of the crosspieces and as a pommel Sao Thiago also add a fleur-de-lis at the tip of the sword.

    **A Fleury cross is a cross with arms of an equal length that terminate in fleur-de-lis.

    I got it from this DBA site, which is different from the one I previously sent you:

    http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/IV68a/

    Hope it helps.

    EDIT: Info on the Knights of Calatava:

    Knights of Calatrava , Spain's oldest military order, whose original seat was the now ruined fortress of Calatrava la Vieja in Ciudad Real prov., central Spain. Founded (1158) by the Cistercians as a defense against the Moors, the order was very powerful, holding large possessions until the 13th cent.; later it declined. In 1499 the title of grand master passed to the Castilian crown and thence to the Spanish crown.
     
  18. Poser2U

    Poser2U Chieftain

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    Did some testing today, here is what found that I think should be improved.

    Playing with Portugal I found this:

    Problems with Iron still remain.

    Namelly:

    Workers can build railroads :confused:

    Not many ppl use the advance commands but since with the GOTM the saves came with that option somebody is bond to find that sooner or later :rolleyes:

    (Althought there isn't Iron or Coal in the map, I checked it with CRpRings just to be sure that it wasn't hidden or something)

    Which leads me to the next problem:
    Iron and Horses.

    The Christians civilizations need them.

    The "tech" that makes wine appear on the map:
    Catholicism

    New Resourse wine appear on the map

    Allows: Church; Swordman; Wines

    To build:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Swordsman

    The Swordsman is the first effective unit of the Iron Age.

    A city must have iron in its Strategic Resource box to build a Swordsman

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    and others too:
    Swordsman -> Iron
    Horseman -> Horses

    I didn't research that many turns but in the Civilopedia it says that this is also required:

    [requiring Chivalry]
    Medieval Infantry -> Iron
    Medium Knight -> Iron + Horses

    [requiring Tactics]
    Pikeman -> Iron

    Strangelly like mentioned before after the cities completes its constructions orders (I just tested with Worker but eddie_verde wrote that after a Granary this also occurs) it starts building a Swordsman (at least if you in the preferences don't have checked "Ask for build orders after unit construction")

    About eddie_verde hometown, I don't know for sure how it was written in those days (I'm almost sure that it is the same as today but I could be wrong)
    It is "Coimbra" and not "Coïmbra"

    ---------------------------------------------------

    I also played a little with the Pirates.

    If in preferences it is checked :
    "Show wonder initiation Pop-up"
    The game starts with a weird thing:
    "The Almoravids are building Piracy Dominance"
    and they are forced to change to "Huerta Technics"

    Is this on intentional?

    About some Pirate units:

    I think that the Chebeck entry in the Civilopedia should tell that it has the Enslave ability and that you can't identify the nationality of a Chebeck that attacks you (carries no flag?)

    When a Pirate attacks from sea sometimes a "Ransonable Captive" is created.
    What are supose to do with them since the Ransonable Captive is put in the middle of a coastal tile ?


    ---------------------------------------------------
    About Other things that I found in the Civilopedia.

    Early Monarchy

    It requires [Early Monarchy] tech

    This is one of the reasons that makes the Civilopedia Crashs when we look the Index
    because it would force it to have 2 entries with the same name but doing diferent things.

    Also the [Early Monarchy] tech says:

    New Goverment saltpeter deposits appear on the map

    This might be a reason why the game crashes when we try to see the Strategic Resourses in the Civilopedia.

    ---------------------------------------------------
    About game balance.
    Why do archers cost 22 ? I think that the normal 20 is fair enough and even for that much I doubt that I would build more than 3 or 4 in a full game because by them I would have much better units for bombardment.
    For that price it would force me just to build 1 or 2 and many Crusaders (that cost 12, and it would be the same if the price was increased to 13 or 14).
     
  19. Poser2U

    Poser2U Chieftain

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    As I wrote before I was playing in a non-updated version of Conquests.
    Now that I'm using v.1.22 I'll be able to help more.

    When I wrote that to build Horseman you'd needed Horses that might been due to the fact that I wasn't playing with the v1.22

    Still I can't build swordsman, unless by indirect ways (finnish a task in a city and accept that it chooses swordsman as its next thing to be constructed)
     
  20. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    @ Hrafnkell : it sure is nice but I cannot put all these orders on the map otherwise they would become game-breakers. Besides, I cannot really do much about the different sets of cloth as the units I have are limited.

    So I will pick up one or two max.

    About the free companies, it is possible but when ? It seems difficult to create tech for them because 1/ The Reconquista age is already pretty full 2/ this tech-tree is not linear and cannot be used to show precise events.
    If you have any ideas where (tech) to put it and what (gfx) to use I could add it.
     

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