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The "spread culture" spy mission

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Bushface, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. bardolph

    bardolph King

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    So can "Spread Culture" work against a recently captured friendly city to reduce the "We yearn for our Motherland" penalty?
     
  2. MrPopov

    MrPopov King

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    Mabye if this was a strategy thread, but it's not. It's a question about the mechanics of the game. If this was on Deity, always war, raging barbarians, and he gave the AIs a 20 turn head start, it makes no difference to what he is asking.
     
  3. Thanny

    Thanny Warlord

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    You can't perform espionage missions on your own city.
     
  4. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    You didn't look at my whole quote (or the whole function).. assume a spy is going to a city with 100 of My culture and 100 Enemy culture (city)... so the spy will add 10 to my culture
    so the function will go

    CvCity::changeCulture()
    [add 10 to my culture of 100]
    plot culture set to true

    goes to

    CvCity::setCulture()
    [set my culture in this city to 110]
    AND
    add zero (thats right 0) Plot culture (because plot culture was set to true)

    Now why would I add zero (0) plot culture.. are the Firaxis programmers that bored.

    NO, whenever you add plot culture, even 0 plot culture, you get some Free Plot culture long with it... the 1+20*Level
    [so using my example, because I am at the third Cultural Level, 100+, I would get 41 extra PLOT culture in the city plot]


    The fact is that 41 additional Free Plot Culture has no relation to the 10 city culture I got
    If My Culture in the city was 100, and the enemy culture was 1900, i would get 100 City culture (5% of 2000) and 41 Plot culture.
     
  5. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    I have realised two things about this mission.
    #1. You can't spread your culture if it's not already present in the enemy city.
    #2. Even if you can spread it, it's very unlikely to be more than a drop in the ocean of enemy culture, unless their city is very new and/or already teetering on the brink of flipping.

    Also, I misled myself earlier (see Thanny's post #11 in this thread). What happens is that there's a surge of culture as the city ceases resistance; production of culture then stops and you are asked what to build next.
     
  6. MarkM

    MarkM Cow Herder

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    So ... I'm still of the opinion that this mission has extremely limited application, am i missing anything? the only thing I can think of is 1) if I'm planning to capture the city & would like it to come out of revolt after I do with a full set of tiles to work right away, to avoid starvation. That's all I got for a real-world, everyday usage ...
     
  7. bardolph

    bardolph King

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    So, does this mean that if I'm having a border war with a rival city, I might be able to get the edge by spamming the "spread culture" mission in the rival city?
     
  8. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    The general gist of this thread is that the spread culture missions provide A VERY VERY low amount of cultural bonus for you. So yes, if you throw tons of spies at a city, you can help your percentage. But its likely not worth the cost in spies and espionage points to do so.
     
  9. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well the cost in Espionage points is probably relatively low... its mostly the cost in spies.
     
  10. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    I had another go at spreading culture, from a reload one turn before a victory. It took 6 turns before my culture appeared, at 2%, in the remaining AI city, then 63 successful "spread" missions and two culture bombs over 20 turns to get it up to 74%. The cost of the last mission was some 1300 EPs, and I lost 11 spies in the process (very close to the predicted success rate). Then I ran out of patience.
    My conclusion is that this mission is a total waste of time.
     
  11. Kelvenor

    Kelvenor Chieftain

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    Could you use the spreading culture in war time to raise your influence above 10% pre city capture in order to Draft in that newly conqured city and help with your war effort ? How many spy would you need to do so?
     
  12. Thanny

    Thanny Warlord

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    The most practical usage is to preload border-popping culture into a city you're about to capture. It has to be a border city, of course, since you can't use this mission unless you have some plot culture on the city's tile, as pointed out above.

    Beyond that, I like the idea someone else posted above. If your border civ is at war with another civ that's more powerful, and those border cities are likely to be captured, then preloading them with your own culture gives you an excellent chance of flipping them.

    The cost in spies isn't much, but the cost in diplomacy from all the failed missions can be high. Best to not do it with a powerful neighbor.
     
  13. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    But see my first post in this thread. 23 "spread" missions did not increase the rate of spread of my culture any more than was already happening due to my culture in two nearby cities.
    Just for interest, I've just run another test in WB, planting a new enemy city with a 2-tile margin of enemy territory around it and a stack of my spies inside. None of my culture, of course, so no spreading. A culture bomb in my city (on the border, horizontally) immediately put 8% of my culture in, rising by 2% per turn: 10 "spread" missions did not alter this. Another try, this time with a culture bomb in a city on the third diagonal tile from the target, took 3 turns before spreading became available: 6 missions were performed, each adding 1% culture costing 1 EP, but a seventh was not permitted; 2 spies were lost. In the next 3 turns, spreading was again not permitted. In turn 5, 2 spreads were allowed and 4 spies vanished without trace - nothing on screen or in the log. Spreading was not allowed until turn 17, by which time the city was showing my culture at 6%; in that turn 14 missions succeeded but 4 spies were lost and another 2 had vanished. Turn 18 showed my culture as 12%, but no spies were available: turn 19 showed 13% (so 1% ws from the culture bomb, not the spies), 14 missions succeeded for the loss of 6 spies, the final ones adding 7 culture and costing 7 EPs each. Finally, in turn 20 my culture had reached 17% and I didn't bother to go any further. The very low cost in EPs was because I had moved my capital up to the border, to save time in getting spies back into action.

    If I had had anything better to do, I'd consider my efforts a total waste of time, and there is absolutely no way I shall ever give this useless mission the slightest consideration in the future. Not ever. Definitely not.
     
  14. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well it seems that the real use of this Mission is in the only time that City culture (rather than plot culture) of an enemy city is considered

    Spy missions

    Spread Culture in a city so that you can gain bonuses for Future Spy missions in that city... because Spy Missions Don't use plot culture for cost, they use city culture.
     
  15. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    But how many spy missions do you intend to use against a city on, or very close to, your border, before you take it ? One to foment or poison (to cut down its production), one to cause revolt before your attack, perhaps one counterespionage if needed: and how many "spread" missions will it take you (at rising costs in EPs and lost spies) to reduce the EP cost of those other few missions by a small amount ? Tchah.
     
  16. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    That depends... If you want to TAKE the city, the spread culture is only Really useful for that first Culture pop post conquest.

    If you want to spy on the city (steal Tech, etc.) then the Spread culture should be useful
     
  17. WilliamOfOrange

    WilliamOfOrange King

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    Interesting Thread. Sorry if this has been discussed, but I didn't think it was.

    What about using this mission on a city of yours recently captured by an enemy, either militarily or culturally and you have a good overlap from your other cities.

    Could this be enough to flip it back, (assuming your game settings allow it)?
     
  18. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    I don't think this mission actually increases your chance of flipping a city, because of the arcane way the culture is applied. If you did capture the city (by whatever means), you would however start with a chunk of your culture in it, which can help shore up the borders
     
  19. MyOlde

    MyOlde Chieftain

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    I would have thought, from the words "spread culture", that the purpose would be to help that city to flip over to you.
     
  20. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    It does, but not well (the amount of culture on the city tile is MASSIVE for any decent city, and it costs way too much otherwise)
     

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