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[GS] The strategic resource "warehouses" really need to be increased

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by CaptainPatch, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Though 150 units seems like a lot, in Marathon games it definitely isn't. Even at only 2 units/turn/resource tile, it doesn't take all that long to get them full... FOR EVERYBODY. At which point strategic resources become nearly worthless because _nobody_ needs to trade for them. You may need some a bit further along, but if there's already 150 units there, there is absolutely no point in trading for more. And EVERYBODY is in that same boat. NOBODY needs more horses. NOBODY needs more iron. Etc.The only time that anybody needs a resource is just when a civ acquired the tech that revealed a "new" resource. And as far as I've seen, the civs _know_ that soon there will be a zero Demand for that resource, so in trading, they offer only ridiculously low prices for those resources. (One gp for 10, 20, 30 units of Iron?) Usually they also demand Favor to sweeten the deal in their favor. (Unintentional pun.)

    Putting that 150 ceiling on resource storage really killed Trading.
     
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  2. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    The problem here, I think, is that I think the game really isn't designed to be played on Marathon or on the largest possible maps. So some systems are inevitably going to break down when you go to the extreme limits. I'm not sure that increasing the cap is really going to help; resources will still likely become irrelevant.
     
  3. Equilin

    Equilin Chieftain

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    I don't quite understand.
    First, i believe resource cap can be increased by encampment (and its buildings)?
    Second, if AIs get a lot of resources, take those sources from them and force them to buy from you, easy.
     
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  4. Cakeathon

    Cakeathon Chieftain

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    Every encampment building increases the stockpile limit.

    However, the problem of demand has little to do with that limit but is tied to the number of nodes vs the cost of units. It's not like there is really a point in hoarding 1000 iron. Only the resources with a cost per turn are really valuable long-term since it directly affects the potential size of your army.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  5. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    All I know for sure is that in vanilla and R & F, there were ALWAYS buyers for my resources. (And I _always_ play Marathon games on Huge maps, so those weren't a factor.) But now, once a resource becomes available, there is (low-paying) Demand for 10-20 turns, but thereafter you can't even give the stuff away. (Well, you can, and they even say "Thanks for the gift." But don't expect ANY consideration in return.)
     
  6. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    Through out my games the AI is beging for my stuff. But I play on normal speed and standard maps.
     
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  7. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    My experience is limited to 1.25 games, but I sold strategic resources all game for good prices. In fact, being asked for strategic resource deals every turn is limiting my pleasure, so I would be happy if the AI would stop asking for horses before the Renaissance.

    Playing on epic, standard and small map, Emperor.
     
  8. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    I made some very good deals selling strategic resources myself. I also learned the hard way how painful it is to be without access to a certain strategic resource - I had no niter in my area, and it really slowed me down in renaissance, and I could not just trade for one unit like I could before GS, which was kind of lame, so this is a good change.

    One of my top priorities for a small QOL fix for the game, however, is a sanity check on the AI offering you stupid deals. I'm tired of three AIs popping up every single turn asking me if I want to sell all my luxuries for 1 GPT. Please don't. They should program a limit so an AI will not offer you a trade at less than, say, 50 % of default value. If I'm that desperate that I want to sell all my luxuries for 1 GPT (which is never), I'll approach the AI and hear what they want to offer.
     
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  9. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Chieftain

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    The stockpile grows as the game goes on. I'm up to 1050 for the sizes now.
     
  10. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Someone pointed out that each DEncampment you build adds another 75 to the resource warehouse size. (I have to wonder if adding a Barracks and Armory, etc also adds to the warehouse size as well.) So, how many Encampments do you have in your warehouse = 1050 game?
    I also have the AI civs constantly pestering me for resources. But they keep asking for like 60 (out of my 150) Iron, for which they offer a whopping 10 Favor + 18 gp and _maybe_ 1-3 gp for 30 turns.. To me, their offers are insulting and unrealistic.(Especially when you consider just how much they demand if you try to buy from them. Trade starts to look like, "Sell dirt cheap, but pay a king's ransom when buying." Really makes me want to turn off Trade entirely -- if I could.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  11. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I'm playing on marathon and the AI are buying my resources left and right. I feel like a sleazy arms dealer. One landmass is in a constant state of war with each resident being at war with at least 2 of the others. Demand is high.
     
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  12. Cakeathon

    Cakeathon Chieftain

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    The encampment itself doesn't, each encampment building adds to it, it's in the building description.
     
  13. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Chieftain

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    Well that explains the insane numbers in the stockpile. (I'm over 1800 now)
    yeah, I took over my continent.

    :)
     
  14. Amrunril

    Amrunril Chieftain

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    The accumulation caps play an important role in that it limits rapid military construction. If you're gradually building up an army of knights over time, your income per turn will matter more than your cap. If, on the other hand, you want to build half a dozen at once (whether as part of a mass upgrade strategy or because you were unprepared for an invasion), then having your stockpile limited to 2 or 3 units worth will be a major issue. If you want that sort of mass building to be an option, you need to support it by increasing your cap or by trading for additional resources at important strategic moments.

    As for the OP's trading concern, if everyone is at their resource cap, then no one is actually spending the resources and thus no one should have any reason to buy them. If the system is keeping the AI from giving away gold for a resource it isn't actually going to use, I consider that an improvement.
     
  15. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

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    There also seems to be a bug in the game where the AI will often offer only 1g for various things, but they'll actually give you much more if you ask. So, that might be complicating this issue.
     
  16. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Chieftain

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    Yes, that bug is IMHO the biggest issue here - it starts to kick in for the strategic ressources which are consumed per round and prevents any meaningful trading. Essentially, you bankrupt the AI (or have to calculate "fair deals" yourself):

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-annoying-oil-trade-bug.641972/
     
  17. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    Yeah, my next door neighbor Poland kept asking for Iron, and call me paranoid if you will but I was thinking that doing that might not be such a good idea.
     
  18. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    I'm much deeper in the game now and the Trading strikes me as being increasingly peculiar. My resource production is fairly high (20-30-40 units per turn) so I can afford to sell 20-30 units of most anything each turn. And you can see just how much the other civs have in Inventory when they come begging for more resources.

    The first odd thing I see is when a civ is asking for 60 units of something, but his current warehouse can only fit another 16. Default programming? Either stupid or lazy programming, imho. No point in asking for more than you can take.

    The second odd thing is, just what the heck are they using all these resources for? I can see they have, like, 210 in stock themselves, and then they want another 60 units? Every turn? By my calculation, there should be 4-5 times as many other civ units cluttering the map. But if you check the Domination Victory scores every turn, their running total hardly changes. (Assuming that that score is mostly the running Combat Value total.) Of the 8 civs in the game, my civ is #2.... and I have hardly any units at all.. But what I do have, I keep technologically current ASAP when tech advances make that possible. On average, I make a new unit about every 10-20 turns. (Not counting Missionaries and Apostles.) But at the rate the other civs keep buying Horses, Iron, Niter, Coal, etc., they should be pumping out 10-20 units PER TURN. In which case, where are all those units? [I have a pretty good "spy network" with my Missionaries, Apostles, and City-States. (Last count, I was Suzerain of 18 out of 24.) At any time, I'll be looking at @40% of the entire pangaea map. Usually there is at least one civ that I can see >90% of their entire real estate within their borders.] And for the most part, they really aren't warring with each other. (I picked a bunch of pacifists for opponents and we're having a mellow time of it.)
     
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  19. Myomoto

    Myomoto Chieftain

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    This is slightly off topic, but I would really like to have the option if trading resources as in x per turn agreements. Basically I sell you 3 oil per turn, you pay me back 20 gold per turn, etc.
     
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  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    The whole trade thing is got a LOT worse.
    Just sticking on resources... if I had no iron I would trade for it for the next 30 turns, after that by units could not heal.
    Now I trade enough to build my units and just keep 1 iron left for the rest of the game, no more needed. It is now easier to get iron and build units than before, the limit on the size of storage I am very happy with, you do need a limit or this would be a joke also. If you want more to stockpile oil for a way, build a few more encampments (i would have preferred a storage unit in an industrial area myself)
     
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