[GS] The strategic resource "warehouses" really need to be increased

The whole trade thing is got a LOT worse.
Just sticking on resources... if I had no iron I would trade for it for the next 30 turns, after that by units could not heal.
Now I trade enough to build my units and just keep 1 iron left for the rest of the game, no more needed. It is now easier to get iron and build units than before, the limit on the size of storage I am very happy with, you do need a limit or this would be a joke also. If you want more to stockpile oil for a way, build a few more encampments (i would have preferred a storage unit in an industrial area myself)

Resources need two very small fixes. First, you should consume resources to heal - even just one unit of resources would do. Second, you should be able to trade for x resources per turn. Done.
 
The whole trade thing is got a LOT worse.
Just sticking on resources... if I had no iron I would trade for it for the next 30 turns, after that by units could not heal.
Now I trade enough to build my units and just keep 1 iron left for the rest of the game, no more needed. It is now easier to get iron and build units than before, the limit on the size of storage I am very happy with, you do need a limit or this would be a joke also. If you want more to stockpile oil for a way, build a few more encampments (i would have preferred a storage unit in an industrial area myself)
I’m working on a strategic resource mod right now and thinking about increasing the requirement per turn for this reason.
 
I think @Victoria ’s post above is spot on. Resources could be a significant limit on army size, but it’s not quite working with the current mechanics.

The game really needs to require resources to heal otherwise you really can just upgrade swords and roll everybody. If FXS are worried about that hurting more casual players, they could perhaps only implement that rule for Emperor+ difficulties. The AI might also need a pass or some bonus to cope. But in any event, it would make the game more strategically interesting if you had to keep resource production up to heal units.

Relatedly, Magnus’ ability to side step resources and the professional army cards are quite broken. These really need to be nerfed.

On a different note, I’m really not enjoying having to research to reveal horses. Perhaps there’s some balance issue I’m missing, but it’s made the early game just a little less interesting. Before, finding horses was more about scouting than science, and finding them might pull be off into a different research path - I can see horses, but have to research iron, so do I just build horsemen or gamble on finding iron for swords. But now I can’t see horses either ... well, I just go for swords.

I also still think Chariots need horses, just to make Knights harder to get. Oh well.
 
I think @Victoria ’s post above is spot on. Resources could be a significant limit on army size, but it’s not quite working with the current mechanics.

The game really needs to require resources to heal otherwise you really can just upgrade swords and roll everybody. If FXS are worried about that hurting more casual players, they could perhaps only implement that rule for Emperor+ difficulties. The AI might also need a pass or some bonus to cope. But in any event, it would make the game more strategically interesting if you had to keep resource production up to heal units.

Relatedly, Magnus’ ability to side step resources and the professional army cards are quite broken. These really need to be nerfed.

On a different note, I’m really not enjoying having to research to reveal horses. Perhaps there’s some balance issue I’m missing, but it’s made the early game just a little less interesting. Before, finding horses was more about scouting than science, and finding them might pull be off into a different research path - I can see horses, but have to research iron, so do I just build horsemen or gamble on finding iron for swords. But now I can’t see horses either ... well, I just go for swords.

I also still think Chariots need horses, just to make Knights harder to get. Oh well.

Perhaps the upgrade policy card should be split into 2 cards - one card giving 50% discount on gold, one card giving 50% discount on resources, and then in the modern era they simply get combined together (since effectively there's no longer any resource needs for most modern units), that way you actually need 2 spots for it.

Alternately, it would probably make sense to keep that card as only affecting gold upgrades, and if you want a bonus to resources, you need to use the card to stockpile them faster. It probably also makes sense to only have either Magnus' resource discount OR Victor's bonus to accumulating, and not both. It would at least prevent you from double-dipping the rewards.

I haven't started a lot of games, but I really don't mind needing to research to reveal horses. AH is usually one of the first couple techs I get since you need it for archery, so it's not a big change. Although for symmetry, I think it would make sense to reveal iron at mining, and then it's quicker to figure out if you need a horse army or an iron army.
 
(i would have preferred a storage unit in an industrial area myself)
I have been trying to come up something to put at the end of the IZ building line if you don't want to build a power plant but you dislike having a build slot open...
Some kind of "Industrial Park" that does a few things, including resource silos for +20cap, would be nice.

I could also see a wonder or two having +stockpile cap effect added.

Alternately, it would probably make sense to keep that card as only affecting gold upgrades, and if you want a bonus to resources, you need to use the card to stockpile them faster.
The upgrade card basically obsoletes the resource gain cards because it's so powerful. I agree that players should be shunted to using the +resource cards. Even as just a gold card, Professional Army has been overwhelmingly powerful since release - although with resource squeeze, I think its lost some of its power.

It might also be neat to add some more civ flavor for strategics:
Scythia's People of the step could be +1 horses per horse pasture instead of that free unit garbage;
Arabia or someone could get extra oil. I was really surprised the ottomans didn't get a niter bonus.
 
I disagree wit the OP's premise.

- AI civs shouldn't purchase more ressources than they ever can hope to spend (or need). Unlimited ressource deals in Civ6 preGS were a stupid mechanic first of all.
- Limited stockpile caps add an interesting game mechanic. They can and will be increaded by player actions (both human and AI).
- In order to increase the ressource turnover, resource-consuming healing might be a solution. I am not sure, though, if this is really applicable. How many ressources would be needed to heal? Certainly not 1 per HP. 1 per 20, maybe? But how to keep this transparent and trackable?
- Personally, I would prefer later units to not require 1 "fuel" to be built, but larger amounts of "conventional" ressources: A tank could require 30 iron, a modern tank 40 iron, a battleship 100 (all numbers came up just like that). This would make a military infrastructure neccesary (without enough storrage space, those units coulnd't even be built) and deplete the accumulated ressources quickly. Early ressources, by the way, that are currently not longer relevant in the late game.
 
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(i would have preferred a storage unit in an industrial area myself)
This I could get behind. Call it a "Warehouse District".

Upon reflection, it strikes me that if they have switched to a per turn production model, they should also institute a depletion algorithm for DEPLETION. All around the world, you can see depleted mines from more than a century ago. That is until the developers move in and "repurpose" the real estate to different uses. [For example, near where I live, two former quarries are now housing developments. (And high-priced ones at that.)]
 
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This I could get behind. Call it a "Warehouse District".

Upon reflection, it strikes me that if they have switched to a per turn production model, they should also institute a depletion algorithm for DEPLETION. All around the world, you can see depleted mines from more than a century ago. That is until the developers move in and "repurpose" the real estate to different uses. [For example, near where I live, two former quarries are now housing developments. (And high-priced ones at that.)]

And bombing or destroying it via Spy makes that idea even better! Good idea.
 
I appreciate the idea of needing resources to build units, but there should also be a need to re-build units after battle damage. So if your 20-iron unit took a 50% hit during the battle, your iron supply would need to have 10 iron in it to completely repair the unit. I think resources should be consumed in battle too, making war doubly expensive. Think of it as "ammunition" consumed. Even in the iron age, armies broke things on campaign and needed to replace them - armor, weapons, shields, whatever you can imagine or read up on. And your stockpiles of iron in particular would be useful in perpetuity, since almost every weapon to this day needs steel in some form, and steel is basically refined iron. Ditto for aluminum and maybe titanium too. This resource system at this point seems only half or even quarter implemented, if you ask me.
 
I have been trying to come up something to put at the end of the IZ building line if you don't want to build a power plant but you dislike having a build slot open...
Some kind of "Industrial Park" that does a few things, including resource silos for +20cap, would be nice.

I could also see a wonder or two having +stockpile cap effect added.


The upgrade card basically obsoletes the resource gain cards because it's so powerful. I agree that players should be shunted to using the +resource cards. Even as just a gold card, Professional Army has been overwhelmingly powerful since release - although with resource squeeze, I think its lost some of its power.

It might also be neat to add some more civ flavor for strategics:
Scythia's People of the step could be +1 horses per horse pasture instead of that free unit garbage;
Arabia or someone could get extra oil. I was really surprised the ottomans didn't get a niter bonus.

I agree with having something like an Industrial Park. It could even then be a pre-requisite for building some advanced things like the GDR.

I think FXS would have been better making power plants a separate district, and having power done globally (or by continent) rather than a six tile aura range. The current arrangement is a bit tedious to plan out, and it's a little silly to always build a workshop and factory before you build a power plant. Having the plant be a separate district would have made those Governor "buy district" powers more useful.

I think FXS also maybe missed a trick. They should have made power, or at least oil, less optional. For example, perhaps after you research a certain tech, all of your cities have a power requirement or require oil failing which your happiness or productivity goes down. Power really should be a bottle neck, but currently it isn't because you can just avoid building tier 3 buildings to avoid dealing with power.

Power should also be required for the Space Port - if you're going for a science victory , you should categorically be required to power up.

Sign. I really like the power and resource system. But I feel like, again, If FXS had just gone a little further with the mechanics - and had been willing to push (punish) players harder , then we'd have a much, much better game.
 
I agree with having something like an Industrial Park. It could even then be a pre-requisite for building some advanced things like the GDR.

I think FXS would have been better making power plants a separate district, and having power done globally (or by continent) rather than a six tile aura range. The current arrangement is a bit tedious to plan out, and it's a little silly to always build a workshop and factory before you build a power plant. Having the plant be a separate district would have made those Governor "buy district" powers more useful.

I think FXS also maybe missed a trick. They should have made power, or at least oil, less optional. For example, perhaps after you research a certain tech, all of your cities have a power requirement or require oil failing which your happiness or productivity goes down. Power really should be a bottle neck, but currently it isn't because you can just avoid building tier 3 buildings to avoid dealing with power.

Power should also be required for the Space Port - if you're going for a science victory , you should categorically be required to power up.

Sign. I really like the power and resource system. But I feel like, again, If FXS had just gone a little further with the mechanics - and had been willing to push (punish) players harder , then we'd have a much, much better game.

Great ideas. At the very least maybe allow us to build National Grid wonder that allows us to pool all the power generated and spread it across the empire.
 
How much iron does an iron mine produce? It seems to me that you get one iron, whereas irl, you would get tons of iron from a mine. I have a half a dozen games going at the moment, and I have been lucky to get one mine in my territory and no one wants to trade for less than an arm and a leg. If they are going to require resources, which seems reasonable to me, then mines ought to produce more, maybe making different iron deposits (or other resources) different production amounts.
 
How much iron does an iron mine produce? It seems to me that you get one iron, whereas irl, you would get tons of iron from a mine. I have a half a dozen games going at the moment, and I have been lucky to get one mine in my territory and no one wants to trade for less than an arm and a leg. If they are going to require resources, which seems reasonable to me, then mines ought to produce more, maybe making different iron deposits (or other resources) different production amounts.
I have one word for you: "abundant". Now, to expand upon that one word, I'd also like to say that map size also plays a LARGE factor on scarcity of resources. The fewer tiles on the map, the larger percentage of the land mass each resource site takes up. Just how many Horses, Wheat,Iron, Coal, Aluminum, Uranium,plus umpty-ump Luxury resources can you have cluttering up the landscape before there isn't any room for fully-fleshed out cities to be built?

It seems to me, given the map scales, there probably should be multiple-resource tiles. Like having Iron Mine that also has Aluminum output. Or a Wheat tile that also has Olives. Etc. After all, as a world representation, these tiles would be HUMONGOUS. LOTS of room to fit in more than one resource.
 
I think the strategic resource warehouse limit is based on the map created by Firaxis. The
Map are not really ‘huge’ and normally does not accommodate too many civilisations. Even if you add too many civilisations, eventually many will be defeated in early game. And the resources required to fight the few civilization should be sufficient. I agree that the resources are limited, that’s why it is a strategic game. Player need to explore the world/continent to look for the required resources. If certain resources that you want is with another civilisation, then the player has to make decision on how to acquire that resources (either buy or invade and take over the resources). This was how real world has survived for ages and even now. And this makes the game more interesting to play on how human player overcome the resource limitation and eventually win other players.
 
On a different note, I’m really not enjoying having to research to reveal horses. Perhaps there’s some balance issue I’m missing, but it’s made the early game just a little less interesting. Before, finding horses was more about scouting than science, and finding them might pull be off into a different research path - I can see horses, but have to research iron, so do I just build horsemen or gamble on finding iron for swords. But now I can’t see horses either ... well, I just go for swords.

I also still think Chariots need horses, just to make Knights harder to get. Oh well.
These, I believe, are VERY valid points. People would quite naturally be able to see where horses congregate. What needs to be researched is _how_ to domesticate them. So Horse tiles should be on the map from the get go, much like how all the agricultural resources are already on the map before you learn Irrigation.. Mining resources require research to 1) learn where to look for them, 2) how to extract them, and 3) how to work them. For example, people knew about iron MUCH longer than before they knew how to work it. [The main difficulty was learning how to get the smelting fires hot enough, and thereafter how to quench it just right so it doesn't get brittle instead of hard.]
 
These, I believe, are VERY valid points. People would quite naturally be able to see where horses congregate. What needs to be researched is _how_ to domesticate them. So Horse tiles should be on the map from the get go, much like how all the agricultural resources are already on the map before you learn Irrigation.. Mining resources require research to 1) learn where to look for them, 2) how to extract them, and 3) how to work them. For example, people knew about iron MUCH longer than before they knew how to work it. [The main difficulty was learning how to get the smelting fires hot enough, and thereafter how to quench it just right so it doesn't get brittle instead of hard.]

Sure, but actually my issue is gameplay. Having a resource visible from turn one means you’re scrambling for that resource from turn one. It also means the decision whether to go for iron is more meaningful.

Some of the best games I’ve had is turn 1 seeing I don’t have horses but have Super agreesive neighbours, rushing iron working and discovering... I don’t have iron either. So, now what do I do? Improvise. Improvise like a boss. (Also die horribly . Actually, mostly just die horribly.)
 
People would quite naturally be able to see where horses congregate. What needs to be resea9rched is _how_ to domesticate them. So Horse tiles should be on the map from the get go...
However, if you were unaware of their use, why would you pay any attention to them when settling.

I can see the logic of them being hidden.
 
However, if you were unaware of their use, why would you pay any attention to them when settling.

I can see the logic of them being hidden.
Fair enough. But seeing as it is 'the next tech', you can see the start as the moment where you think 'hey I see their value, I need to discover how to actually exploit it'. So having them revealed *feels* more logical to me. The same way you discover Iron and think 'hey that looks like a good alternative to bronze.I can make huge chunk of very solid metal. But somehow I don't manage to replicate the same treatment as I do for bronze to get tools /weapons I could use... got to think of a better way to handle this ressource"....hence researching iron working.
 
However, if you were unaware of their use, why would you pay any attention to them when settling.

I can see the logic of them being hidden.
Meh. What's the point of showing Citrus, Olives, Wine, Cotton, et al before you have Irrigation? Same logic.
 
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