The Sword of Islam 0.5.0 Discussion

[Leoreth]

I'm currently a little tired of modding so that's a nice distraction. Let's see what comes of it.

 

[blizzrd]

- Replaced the Unique Units of Kingdom of Jerusalem (Knight of Jerusalem) & Principality of Antioch (Norman Knight)

I note that you have changed the starting units for PoA to include their new UU instead of Lancers goodjob, but why didn't you also switch KoJ to start with its new UU instead of Lancers?

Spoiler :

I find it hard to resist the urge to use WB to get the starting UU.

 

[embryodead]

It's the way it is because Norman Knights came from Italy, while Knights of Jerusalem would be a locally created order.

 

[blizzrd]

The free starting army is the unique strength of the Crusaders, yet you want their free starting army to be created from local troops?

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me.

 

[embryodead]

The free starting army is the unique strength of the Crusaders, yet you want their free starting army to be created from local troops?

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me.

I meant a locally created Knightly Order. It doesn't make sense to have the crusaders start with knights of the Order created after the city was captured. Maybe it should be possible to upgrade them - that would make sense, but I'm not sure if it's easily possible to upgrade a base unit to UU.

Also, pretty much every civ starts with an army. Free armies from the crusades refers to the extra units you receive every time crusaders lose a core city, i.e. a new crusade.

 

[Replacement]

Glad to see the update! I'm going to be away from my computer for the next few months yet, (thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail woo) but I can't wait to get back and try out the new changes. I'll try and get some quotes for the remaining techs when I return to civilization and Civilization.

 

[embryodead]

Woo have fun and avoid hillbillies

 

[2phunkey4u]

Great job on the new version. I just like to report some things I stumbled upon.

• I can't upgrade all units. I remember from previous version f.e. being able to upgrade all my archers to marksmen. I can't do that any more.
• Rebels seem to be more active. I find some rebel cities (Lahore, Chittor) to produce lots of highly upgraded units.
• The rice south of Chittor appers in 1200 and can't be accessed by any city (In case one does not found Dhara Nagari 2W).
• I really miss those Genoese Crossbowmen. Have not any any for hire, either.
• AI seems to choose some really bad city spots now, especially in Jazira and Khorasan.

Then I played Rûm again and wondered whether anyone has ever encountered this much difficulty getting Sufism spread to 5 cities.
I was a Royal Saint around 1200, had religious and scholarly buildings everywhere and at some point I had 3 incense from my Ayyubid vassals. A measly 3 Sufi cells spread to my cities by 1280, including 1 induced by Mevlana's tomb. Plus production is all down in Anatolia after the Mongols and it becomes impossible to build any shrines last-minute. I feel like it can't be done without sending a raiding party into Yemen. Anyone think it might be necessary to buff the effect of the Han and the Tomb further or pull the goal back to 1300/1330?

 

[2phunkey4u]

Two more things:

• There seems to be a scripted spread of Orthodoxy to Qahira. This makes the Fatimids go all out super-wonder mongering. Now they build the Orthodox wonders. And all the others, too.
• Georgia UHV3 is now bugged.

 

[embryodead]

Thanks for the feedback!

I can't upgrade all units. I remember from previous version f.e. being able to upgrade all my archers to marksmen. I can't do that any more.

I got this as well, with archers->marksmen. Seems totally random and unexplainable - I was able to upgrade, saved, then wasn't. Does it happen with any other unit classes?

Rebels seem to be more active. I find some rebel cities (Lahore, Chittor) to produce lots of highly upgraded units.

No changes here, other than unit art.

The rice south of Chittor appers in 1200 and can't be accessed by any city (In case one does not found Dhara Nagari 2W).

Yes. The area was re-arranged in such a way so as to make Dhar less powerful - it used to be Wonder factory even for the poor AI.

I really miss those Genoese Crossbowmen. Have not any any for hire, either.

They are definitely there and I played several test runs as PoA & KoJ after the changes and got at least one Genoese Crossbowman every time, though not as many Sailors.

AI seems to choose some really bad city spots now, especially in Jazira and Khorasan.

There is more variation but I haven't noticed anything alarming. Let me know if there is any particular bad city spot that is settled frequently.

There seems to be a scripted spread of Orthodoxy to Qahira. This makes the Fatimids go all out super-wonder mongering. Now they build the Orthodox wonders. And all the others, too.

Nope, nothing changed here - there's been a single scripted spread of Orthodoxy to one random city in Egypt or Palestine, so it has an equal chance of striking at Cairo, Alexandria, Damietta, Jerusalem and whatever else the Fatimids build. Since there's Orthodoxy in Alexandria and Jerusalem already, often it doesn't spread at all.

Georgia UHV3 is now bugged.

Can you explain? I haven't changed anything with Georgian UHVs and everything seems to be working fine (apart from Barbarians not being counted as non-Christian, but looking at the code I don't even remember whether I wanted it this way or the other).

 

[embryodead]

For the 1.0: here's a shot at the new Ashot, butchered from Melcher's Barbarossa. If that's not too bad I'd get rid of the El Cid guy. Also, I could possibly convert one of the two Isabellas into a better Tamar.

 

[2phunkey4u]

Thanks for the feedback!
I got this as well, with archers->marksmen. Seems totally random and unexplainable - I was able to upgrade, saved, then wasn't. Does it happen with any other unit classes?

Happens to all unit classes. Can't upgrade to the heavy versions.

There is more variation but I haven't noticed anything alarming. Let me know if there is any particular bad city spot that is settled frequently.

Seljuks seem to prefer Bastam or even more so Fariman (really bad spot off SE of Neyshapur) over Nishapur/Mashhad. Armenia likes to expand into Shirvan a lot ealier. And there is a bad spot to the W of Kirkisiya (bad in itself already) which I've seen settled by Abbasids or Zengids.

Nope, nothing changed here - there's been a single scripted spread of Orthodoxy to one random city in Egypt or Palestine, so it has an equal chance of striking at Cairo, Alexandria, Damietta, Jerusalem and whatever else the Fatimids build. Since there's Orthodoxy in Alexandria and Jerusalem already, often it doesn't spread at all.

Sounds like it's almost guaranteed to spread to Cairo.

Can you explain? I haven't changed anything with Georgian UHVs and everything seems to be working fine (apart from Barbarians not being counted as non-Christian, but looking at the code I don't even remember whether I wanted it this way or the other).

So I had all territories checked in the victory conditions screen with two Rebel cities in Lesser Armenia that had Shia Islam in there. Lost UHV in 1332. Loaded, WBd Islam out of the two cities and Orthodoxy in. Same result. Maybe the cities belonged to a particular rebel leader with Islam as a state religion (is that even possible)?

 

[embryodead]

Happens to all unit classes. Can't upgrade to the heavy versions.

OK, found & fixed it. There's a CannotUpgrade feature used for some units (i.e. mercenaries) and this value isn't saved properly, being essentially randomized for every unit with every game load. Unfortunately this will break savegame compatibility between SVN/1.0 and 0.5.

Seljuks seem to prefer Bastam or even more so Fariman (really bad spot off SE of Neyshapur) over Nishapur/Mashhad. Armenia likes to expand into Shirvan a lot ealier. And there is a bad spot to the W of Kirkisiya (bad in itself already) which I've seen settled by Abbasids or Zengids.

- OK, I just reduced the value of Fariman and the surrounding area & made some minor changes to Armenian Shirvan
- Bastam is OK, it's always has had a value of 200.
- If you mean Rahba, it's the same spot as old Kirkisiya, I only changed the name

Sounds like it's almost guaranteed to spread to Cairo.

No, really. If it hits a city that has Orthodoxy already it just doesn't spread.

So I had all territories checked in the victory conditions screen with two Rebel cities in Lesser Armenia that had Shia Islam in there. Lost UHV in 1332. Loaded, WBd Islam out of the two cities and Orthodoxy in. Same result. Maybe the cities belonged to a particular rebel leader with Islam as a state religion (is that even possible)?

Ah, minor civs have no state religion, and in UHV check they count against the UHV, but on the Victory screen, they specifically don't... again, I don't remember my original intention, but I'll assume that Victory screen is OK, and fix the UHV check to allow minor civs.

 

[2phunkey4u]

OK, found & fixed it. There's a CannotUpgrade feature
Ah, minor civs have no state religion, and in UHV check they count against the UHV, but on the Victory screen, they specifically don't... again, I don't remember my original intention, but I'll assume that Victory screen is OK, and fix the UHV check to allow minor civs.

You don't need to. Anyone could have easily destroyed these cities (or liberate them to Cicilia, had they respwaned). I just rather had all my troops have fun in the Levant than take care of Lesser Armenia. I just wanted to have clarification.

 

[embryodead]

You don't need to. Anyone could have easily destroyed these cities (or liberate them to Cicilia, had they respwaned). I just rather had all my troops have fun in the Levant than take care of Lesser Armenia. I just wanted to have clarification.

No, but it was wrong one way or another - the Victory Screen had different conditions to the actual UHV check.

 

[AbsintheRed]

For the 1.0: here's a shot at the new Ashot, butchered from Melcher's Barbarossa. If that's not too bad I'd get rid of the El Cid guy. Also, I could possibly convert one of the two Isabellas into a better Tamar.

Looks great!
You should even upload it to the database IMO
I'm sure Melcher won't mind (and you can always give him credit in the download)

 

[Sovietof17]

Can something be done for Ajmer UHV goal #3? It is inconsistently impossible compared with just about any other civ's UHV goals. Delhi Sultanate spawns in 1330 and Sindh spawns shortly after. There's just no way to stay alive and keep an army going to keep going into 1400. I've tried several times with no success. And getting the 3 generals is a large pain in the neck, also...

 

[blizzrd]

OK, found & fixed it. There's a CannotUpgrade feature used for some units (i.e. mercenaries) and this value isn't saved properly, being essentially randomized for every unit with every game load. Unfortunately this will break savegame compatibility between SVN/1.0 and 0.5.

Sounds like we need a 0.5.1 release?

 

[2phunkey4u]

@Soviet: Check the strategy thread.

 

[srpt]

cripple the Ghaznzavids and try to help the Ghorids. if the Ghorids make it to 1250 and aren't too unstable there will be no Delhi Sultanate. I think you can keep Sindh from respawning by being really stable yourself.