The templars were innocent!

Xenocrates

Xenocrates

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I've been gone a while, so I thought post something pretty special and it doesn't get much more special than this!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/05/wvatican105.xml

There's a lot of history here that I haven't time to go into, but they were the most powerful NGO that ever existed, after the dissolution of the order, it is said that they moved to Portugal and Scotland. The Portugese side were renamed the 'Order of Christ' and later, according to some, discovered the New World, before Columbus. The Scottish side may or may not have become the Freemasons and at Rosslyn Chapel there are allegedly carvings of corn from America.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk/images/rosslyn_chapel_corn.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk/maize.htm&h=513&w=643&sz=227&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=e-oAvHnYQeRAaM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drosslyn%2Bchapel%2Bcorn%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26newwindow%3D1%26sa%3DN.

These carvings were made around 40 years [EDIT some sources say 25 and some 6] before the official discovery of the New World by Columbus (an Italian who had lived in Portugal before being sponsored by the Spanish).

Anyway, that can all be taken with a pinch of salt as researching the Templars is impossible. ;) It's been the inspiration for many works of fiction, including the Da Vinci code, and this fiction has pushed out all of the facts. Still damn interesting though.:)

What interested me about this was that at the moment there is a push to expand Bush 'n Blair's (Blair is accused by some of being a freemason) 'New Crusade' into Syria and Iran and this document comes to light that vindicates the last crusaders and reminds people how romantic crusading is! Talk about serendipity.:goodjob:
 
The Portuguese "Ordem de Cristo" is indeed a renaming of the Templars. And the cross in Portugal's flag is a templar Cross of Malta.

I don't know if this is what you want to discuss here, but it is fairly obvious that Templars were innocent of the wild accusations made against them. Phillipe IV wanted to centralize all power of France in his hands, and the Templars were too powerful to be left alone. Plus he and his right-hand man Marigny always wanted to put their hands in the Templars' considerable fortune. The Templars were probably not very good chrstians, but they were not the Satan-worshiping sodomists portrayed by the french authorities.
 
I don't see how the document proves that they weren't heretics, only that the pope was convinced that they weren't. I must say that their explanation of the apparently blasphemous initiation ceremony sounds pretty feeble to me!
 
Plotinus said:
I don't see how the document proves that they weren't heretics, only that the pope was convinced that they weren't. I must say that their explanation of the apparently blasphemous initiation ceremony sounds pretty feeble to me!
Click to expand...

Quite so, the accusations could have been false or the 'I'm sorry I had you tortured and killed by mistake' document could be false or a fake. Who knows? All we can say is that the torture did nothing to clear up the situation..... *cough*

Looking at the Templars discovering the New World first theories - they don't seem quite so outlandish to me.

They'd recently been attacked and seriously damaged and so had a reason to look for new lands to settle and exploit.
They were wealthy beyond compare, yet in moral debt to the rulers of the countries that offered them sanctuary. Both of which were on the West of Europe.
They were secretive, probably more so after the 'trials'.

It's not implausible that the first men to the new world would try to keep it and it's riches to themselves for as long as possible. I'd find it amazing if the first guys to visit returned and blabbed about it to everyone.

The Scots did have an empire (of sorts) in the New World eventually and so did the Portugese. The Scottish empire failed, does anyone know what happened to the Portugese empire :lol:

The Scottish colony in Darien cost half of the country's wealth :sad: and it's story is here: http://travel.independent.co.uk/uk/article1174447.ece

I'm not sure if there's a real link to the templars or freemasons though.
 
Xenocrates said:
They'd recently been attacked and seriously damaged and so had a reason to look for new lands to settle and exploit.
Click to expand...
So they decided to sale off into the middle of the ocean and hope a previously undiscovered continent would spring up in front of them before them before they ran out of supplies?
 
When you put it like that it does sound crazy :) , but these are the templars we're talking about and there's nothing in their history that isn't crazy!

Maybe they thought God would help them or something? After all they were religious (probably) and if their God existed, he owed them a favour or two. They were also marked men so it isn't so hard to believe that they took a leap of faith.

I just found this too (about the Pinzons)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071009.wpinzon1009/BNStory/Front/home

The thing with Columbus is that there were three ships and they split up so there was an incentive for each to head back and blab to take credit instead of the others. It doesn't sound like they trusted each other. Maybe the templars were more fraternal, or only took one ship.
Spoiler :
Or maybe they didn't go at all. :goodjob: :lol:
 
Just a few facts about the Templars.

1) When you look at the network of their strongholds, you can see they were clearly organized in two bigs concentric networks. One centered on champagne (were the Templars were created), one on ... La Rochelle. Why? Wouldn't it have been more logical to focus on a port on the Mediterranean sea to support the Crusades.

2) The Templars hold a large wealth in silver. More than the outpot of the known silver mines in Europe.

3) When the Templars were destroyed in France, they became the Knights of the Christ in Portugal. For quite a long time, Portuguese ships were allowed to set sail for "abroad" only if they had a member of this order on board.

4) When preparing his expedition, Columbus spent a lot of time studying documents in the library of a monastery, that was a former Templar stronghold.
 
2) The Templars hold a large wealth in silver. More than the outpot of the known silver mines in Europe.

3) When the Templars were destroyed in France, they became the Knights of the Christ in Portugal. For quite a long time, Portuguese ships were allowed to set sail for "abroad" only if they had a member of this order on board.

4) When preparing his expedition, Columbus spent a lot of time studying documents in the library of a monastery, that was a former Templar stronghold.
Click to expand...

reliable sources?
 
A link in French
http://www.fileane.com/laurie/episodes/global_episode13.htm

and mostly what I recall from a book on the subject I read some time ago.

In French to.

Another funny fact. The Knight Templars had originally a good number of Norman members. IIRC, the Normans made the biggest percentage of the first knights.

And, chance, the Normans have some Vikings in their ancestry. Vikings who discovered America earlier.

Coincidence?
 
Foucault's Pendulum is a great book and contains a lot of very intelligent writing. It's been translated brilliantly from the original Italian into English ;) If you haven't read it you may need a dictionary for the first few pages but it soon speeds up. It's well worth it.

I heard about the New World silver hypothesis before but I've no idea whether it's true or not. There were doubtlessly some secret silver mines in or around Europe too.
 
Foucault's Pendulum is a great book and contains a lot of very intelligent writing. It's been translated brilliantly from the original Italian into English If you haven't read it you may need a dictionary for the first few pages but it soon speeds up. It's well worth it.
Click to expand...

well, i've read it in german and dont know either the original or the english translation...
however i recommended the french version to our french fellow :)
 
All Steph's sources for the Templars being the discoverers of the New World (and thus the French being the first to discover the New World) are French. So it's probably just a French attempt at claiming their superiority, again.

/conspiracy theory

:joke:
 
This threads a fun little read, but I think the idea is fairly prepostorous for a couple reasons....

One of the things that made it possible for Columbus to make his "discovery" in 1492 where the advents in both navigation and shipbuilding technology. Ships from earlier ages just wouldn't cut an open voyage across the Atlantic, other than a fluke here or there. So, it totally strikes me as possible that some Templars could've made it there on a fluke, but it would be a one way journey. And, even if they defied the odds again and made it back, you'd need an armada to get the kind of silver that Steph is alluding to.

I think the most plausible notion is that they had some information or traditions that passed down or were adopted from the Vikings.

@Dutchfire, I realize you're kidding, but its pretty well known that the Vikings had a settlement on the NA continent around ~1100 AD.
 
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