The Third World War 1989

[Civinator]

Tony, it´s great that you are working at this monster of a scenario again.

While playing, I use a house rule that subs and anti-ship missiles cannot be used to attack land targets. But you can do as you like.

In the next version of SOE the restriction of torpedoing land units and improvements is solved in the following way: Subs with a lethal sea bombard flag and a bombard range of 1 for their torpedoes have the wheeled flag. Coastal water terrain is forbidden for wheeled units. These subs can pass from their harbors over the forbidden coastal terrain by deepwater harbor settings, done with the Quintillus editor. With these settings, that seem to work well on fixed maps (as it is for SOE and 1989), "land-torpedoing" by subs is nearly completely excluded (the exception is, when the sub is on a deepwater harbor terrain).

But it comes even better. Paths with land-/sea-intersections of the flintlock patch are replacing the convoy routes from the US and Canada (and to Russia). All kind of land units produced in US and Canadian cities with the names "Convoys from the US or Canada" have different graphics of merchant ships. The land- /sea intersection tiles are not allowed for units with the wheeled flag. The land units with ship graphics are passing along these routes to England and North Africa (and Russia). When arriving in their destinations (per example at present it is working for Glasgow yet, the changes for Liverpool and North Africa still must be set), these units with low level A and D values are upgraded to their normal graphics and values and now per example the transported Sherman tank is looking like a Sherman and no longer like a freighter, but it now has the wheeled flag and cannot move back to its origin, but must stand in Britain and fight (in the later stages of SOE, when all land units don´t have the wheeled flag any longer, the tanks will have to move with their original graphics and values along the land- /sea intersections).

The convoy routes now are flanked by deepwater harbor tiles, allowing subs to lethaly torpedo these land units, that are looking like merchant ships while moving on the land- sea intersections and additionally allow ships to cross this land terrain for escorting and attacking duties on the transport"ships".

Additionally Flintlock has the limitation for sea units that cannot bombard land units and -terrain on his list.

 

[Lionic]

Talking about Flintlock. An icon for Stack Bombardment would be needed to match the other unit action icons.

 

[Civinator]

Talking about Flintlock. An icon for Stack Bombardment would be needed to match the other unit action icons.

This icon (and some others) are included in the Flintlock patch.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Civinator, I have been reading your posts regarding the new convoy system in SOE and look forward to seeing it in action. The Flintlock editor has allowed a number of creative solutions to be tried for some tradition scenario problems. In this scenario, bombardment has been eliminated from attack submarines. In early builds, huge stacks of American submarines would park in Kiel or Amsterdam and bombard Soviet tanks. Even with the deepwater system active, this would still happen. Now they must close with their enemies to fight. This is a direction I have been leaning in for a while, and have applied to the other game as well. Too much bombarding allows the human player to destroy the AI without loss. Now at least it will be a gamble. The computer is also forced to deal with having damaged ships, which it will send back to port eventually to be repaired, which increases the odds that it will upgrade ships in port. I know you are fully aware as to how these situations interact. One thing I enjoy about the different Civ 3 scenarios is not just the changing graphics, but how modders use various tools to make each game a little different. It's like making different meals from similar ingredients.

What I would really like is if we had separate sea and land bombard commands. This was featured in Civ 5 as an afterthought, but could really change the dynamics at sea. It would also be great if we had stealth attack selection for bombarding and bombing, as well as stealth attack selection for lethal attacks. For example, an aircraft could destroy a SAM unit but not a whole mechanized unit. But I try not to get too greedy with my modding wish list as Flintock has already achieved many great things that benefit all of us.

In addition to the stack bombard icon, I need to create a few more screens so this interface could be used independently for other scenarios if desired.

 

[Lionic]

This icon (and some others) are included in the Flintlock patch.

I meant the one that matches the style of other 1989 icons.

 

[Lionic]

My game as Sweden has ended in diplomatic victory. For the most part of my game I have been striking WP and NATO in their backs, cutting myself a piece here and there. Sweden makes a great ally for Soviet Union--it could secure Norway in the first 3-4 turns, than strike at Denmark and northern Germany. Swedish units are not designed to compete with the best in the game, but they are better than 99% of Warsaw Pact's equipment. Still my efforts were not enough to compete with NATO for victory points so I had to go for Political Victory instead.

Some things that I have not reported yet are:
- It is possible to trade for China Pact tech (probably the only one in the whole game);
- Peace with Asian Nations requires America although the Civpedia states that no resources are required;

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Holy hell, that's actually working as designed. As you said, China Pact is tradeable. Did you research Naval Power to be able to get access to Era 4 technologies? It should be the only one required for advancement.

Civilopedia fixed.

Sweden was actually the first nation redone, so this is already from like a year ago. Still need to up the costs, though.

 

[Lionic]

Yes, I did. I could have finished a week (of real life) earlier, had I known that it is possible to trade for China Pact. I would have added a couple of Soviet-made units to Swedish tech tree (to make trading with WP more lucrative). A mobile artillery (2S1 or 2S3) perhaps, as Sweden lacks mobile artillery and BMP-1 or 2 as defensive unit that is better than regular Swedish mech infantry,

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Another short update. I installed 3 different versions of Civ 3: the discs, the Gog version, and the steam version. The gog version had lots of problems and I quickly abandoned that. The steam version works well with normal civ 3 but this scenario doesn't work at all. It must be using too much memory because it's the old problem of not being able to save right from the start. This really sucks since this is the new version that's already been skinned to run faster. I think I'm going to stay away from the Flintlock patch here. I have not had good luck yet, and I don't think the artillery parameters are going to work with the way units are set up, especially with the offense and defense AI flags. The problem is not as much Civ 3 itself, although there have been plenty of issues, but with the ancillary programs we use. Things like editors and Flicster do not work well when there are multiple versions of the game on one computer. They are constantly searching the wrong files and having crashes. So, for the time being it will be back to the disc version for testing and modding. I might try the steam again later in the process.

The good news is that the changes seem to be working well. The less effective bombardment is really working well, as are the lower hit point values. This might be taken a bit further. Anything that forces the player to fight more head to head is good in my view.

I don't think the game will be able to run much faster without making seriously drastic cuts. I'm definitely trying to avoid that.

Some new resource graphics have been added as well.

 

[Civinator]

The gog version had lots of problems and I quickly abandoned that. The steam version works well with normal civ 3 but this scenario doesn't work at all. It must be using too much memory because it's the old problem of not being able to save right from the start.

Tony, I made a short test starting the newer version of 1989 with the Flintlock patch (version 9) and the GOG version of Civ 3 Complete. After 5-6 actions when starting as Russia, there were no problems in game play and I was able to do a save in turn 1 'right from the start' with your scenario (screenshot attached). According to the present situation in Europe I did not continue that test.

I have a direct desktop connection to the C3C exe patched with the Flintlock mod to start the GOG version and don´t start it via the GOG launcher.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Thanks for checking, Blue. I should clarify a little here. The Gog version of the scenario did work, but it was gog itself which was giving me issues. The steam version did not work. Indeed, the music didn't even come on, which is a sign that the game is overwhelmed. So, I have moved back to the disc version because it is stable for modding. Also, and I'm sure you know this, it is too chaotic trying to mod with all these different versions, as your work may be buried in one version and you can't remember which. The gog and steam versions will be tried again, just after the major modding work is done. The goal is to make the scenario more accessible. No point in creating all this stuff if the player gives up five minutes in. And yes, perhaps this scenario is not appropriate at present; I supposed we'll know soon enough.

 

[Civinator]

The Gog version of the scenario did work, but it was gog itself which was giving me issues.

Tony, I never had any problems with GOG itself - but for all my GOG games I used the offline installation, never GOG Galaxy. The advantage is, that GOG cannot spoil your current games with not wanted updates and any other things influencing your current installation and additionally you receive an electronic installation file that, if you have saved it, can work like a CD installation.

Here is a screenshot in German language, showing the offline installation of Civ 3 complete:

Spoiler :

 

[Simon Darkshade]

My attempts to play this back a year and a bit ago came to naught due to the Steam version not working. Having read some of Anthony’s more recent posts, I can see I was not alone there.

I shall endeavour to save up and get a physical copy of the Conquests CD to install the game the old fashioned way and see if I can have a play around of this marvellous scenario. It is indeed a gratifying surprise to see it still being worked on, so hopefully at some stage this year I’ll have something to add.

Over 20 years since the game came out and a bit over 21 years since I joined these forums. It has been a heck of a ride.

 

[Ozymandias]

It has been a heck of a ride.

 

[Civinator]

I shall endeavour to save up and get a physical copy of the Conquests CD to install the game

Simon Darkshade, welcome back!

If you are really looking for a Conquests CD take the Civ Chronicles Compilation. The Civ 3 version in that compilation doesn´t have the copy protection that is causing so much trouble when installing the game, as microsoft is not supporting the copy protection software any longer. A may be better way would be to try the GOG version of Civ 3 Complete, that is on sale every few weeks for € 1,29 (or the equivalent in dollar).

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Thank you Civinator and Oz. Nice to be back in old parts.

I reckon I’ve got the GOG version, but will try the version you recommend as my first port of call.

Looking at the cost, it might have to wait until I’ve sold my first book.

 

[King Bulrush]

My attempts to play this back a year and a bit ago came to naught due to the Steam version not working. Having read some of Anthony’s more recent posts, I can see I was not alone there.

I shall endeavour to save up and get a physical copy of the Conquests CD to install the game the old fashioned way and see if I can have a play around of this marvellous scenario. It is indeed a gratifying surprise to see it still being worked on, so hopefully at some stage this year I’ll have something to add.

Over 20 years since the game came out and a bit over 21 years since I joined these forums. It has been a heck of a ride.

I don't know if this helps but I own the steam version of Civ 3 and I was able to install and play (and eventually win) this scenario on in back in 2020. So I can attest that it is theoretically possible to have this scenario work under steam. Unfortunately in the meantime I deleted/reinstalled the game once and lost all of my save games due to my own stupidity/improperly backing up data, so you will have to take my word for it...

Good luck with your install, and with the game!

 

[Ozymandias]

Thank you Civinator and Oz. Nice to be back in old parts.

I reckon I’ve got the GOG version, but will try the version you recommend as my first port of call.

Looking at the cost, it might have to wait until I’ve sold my first book.

The GOG installer lets you do a "standalone" install, without needing to hook up to the GOG network when you play (@Civinator told me about this one )

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Simon, it's good to see you back on. Hopefully, you are soon able to get a copy of the game that works properly. I am going to retry the Gog and steam versions, but cannot do so while am still modding. Some of the secondary programs I use like Steph's editor start getting confused about which path to follow and it becomes a real issue with crashes. The good thing about CFC is that people seems to find their way back at some point after a long or short absence. Your feedback would be most welcome.

You may have seen on the previous pages that Britain got some love for the next version. And they're going to need it because Warsaw Pact is getting a boost.

King B, also glad you are back on. Sometimes I look back at a conversation on the thread thinking it was recent, only to find that it is over a year old. You will be glad to see that goofy partisans and Mpp shenanigans will be expunged in the next release.

 

[King Bulrush]

King B, also glad you are back on. Sometimes I look back at a conversation on the thread thinking it was recent, only to find that it is over a year old. You will be glad to see that goofy partisans and Mpp shenanigans will be expunged in the next release.

That's good to hear! I will try to remember if there are any other weird issues I remember from playing the scenario "back in the day". Right now there is one weird thing that popped into my head: I seem to remember a situation where I had some of my units parked on a friendly airfield (I think it was the East German aifield next to Neusterlitz - I was playing he Soviets). As it happens, the NATO counteroffensive on turn 2 took Neusterlitz (bypassing my army) and the airfield also switched owners, but with my troops still on it. And then the Polish air force bombed the (now enemy) airfield and damaged my (Soviet) units stationed on it! Unfortunately I no longer have the save game to prove it, but I think it was probably some general game mechanics issue rather than something pertaining to the scenario itself...

BTW: You never answered my question about the music used in the scenario. Or is it a "trade secret"?