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The three fixes that let me enjoy CiVI (finally).

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Sherlock, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. Sherlock

    Sherlock Just one more turn...

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    I've had three gripes with CiVI since day one. Being attacked by three (or four) barbs from two different camps ten turns in is nuts. I HAD IT with that nonsense. Far too many abandoned games. But there's a 'tone done the barbs' mod which works fine.

    Next the lack of places to settle cities. I've been playing on small maps and find the standard size map doesn't suffer from this 'lack of places to settle'. Never had this problem in CiV. Anyway, no more small maps for me.

    Finally the loyalty system drives me nuts. I do everything you can to bump up loyalty and still loose half (or more) of the cities I take. Well there's a mod to tamp that down too.

    So, after almost two years I'm enjoying the heck outa CiVI. Finally. Much thanks to the modding community, apparently you're better at making this game playable than Firaxis is.
     
    Haig likes this.
  2. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yea, small maps suck. But there really is something up with the map generation that other civs didn't do as even normal maps have problems.

    Maybe large maps...
     
  3. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    Nope. I play almost exclusively on Large Maps (because my computer won't handle Huge Maps without becoming glacially slow) and Initial Placement of Civs is a real problem. I probably restart about half my games when I discover that even on a Large Map 3 out of the 9 other Civs in the game have spawned within 8 - 9 tiles of me and as soon as anybody builds a second city, we're going to be at war. If I'm not in the mood for a Domination Game, that ends the game for me. There is also still a bad problem with at least 1 - 2 out of 10 Civs on a Large Map starting all or partly in Tundra and so, other than Russia, being near-crippled in their early development.

    Disclaimer: I play on a Mac, so we're still about 1 - 2 Updates behind the PC community, and some of the placement problems supposedly have been solved - I just haven't seen that much improvement since R&F came out for the Mac Community.
     
  4. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Chieftain

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    If the mods are working for you and make the game more enjoyable then keep using them. I have a couple mods that I love as well but mine are more UI improvements, nothing that changes the game mechanics. If you're interested in some tips to help with those issues in the unmodded game, I have a few suggestions:

    1. In the early game it's so important to build slingers and maybe another warrior as soon as you get the production policy boost. Then park the units all around the perimeter of your territory to push back fog of war. This forces camps to spawn pretty far from your cities. Obviously you want to aggressivly chase down any scouts that come into view before they can report back to their camp.

    3. It's very important to use the policy cards that increase loyalty, move a govenor in as soon as you capture a city and leave a unit garrisoned in the city. If that's still not enough, using a builder to chop can quickly raise the population of the new city which helps because loyalty pressure is influenced by the difference in population compared to nearby cities.
     
  5. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    That doesn't surprise me. I remember starting a huge map game only to find someone 10 tiles away like it was a small map.

    :S
     
  6. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 Chieftain

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    To solve the placement issue, I often prefer some kind of TSL map, where I pick most or all of the opponents. Sometimes I space all the civs fairly equally, and sometimes I create sets of 2-3 civs to create hotpoints of friction. (Having map knowledge easily knocks the difficulty down a half a step.)

    I am on about my 15th game using the Transposia map, it is by far my favorite. It places the Mediterranean right inside North America - as a result you can get a TSL location for any Med civ, and also USA, Cree, and Monte. Some Pacific islands are off the East Coast, so if you include Japan it will spawn there. You can sail from the Med past Gibraltar/LA (lol) to the west coasts, but you can only get Med navy to the Atlantic if you put a canal city near Jerusalem/the Carolinas. In my current Greece game I have two canal cities that allow me to get from the Med (Istanbul) into 3 of the Great Lakes. It really is a hoot.

    CS will spawn in TSL if they make it past the random pick phase and are included in the blended map.

    I like to have Rome and Greece, Spain, Cree, Japan, USA, either Arabia or Egypt, and Monte. Then I throw in a couple random civs just to make it interesting (One or two civs always spawn N of Rome/Greece, and usually one or more in N Africa/Mexico). I rotate playing TSL civs and being a random civ (or at least a non-TSL civ). NWs spawn at random, so even though much of the map is the same, exploration is still always interesting. Different map sizes chop the map height...
    Transposia.jpg

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1458792948
     
    Hawke9 and Leyrann like this.
  7. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    Oh my god that map looks and sounds amazing.
     
  8. Piruparka

    Piruparka Chieftain

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    I will NEVER understand the concern with early barbs. Don't get your starting warrior too far away, build an early scout for exploration and a slinger. Fight off barb scouts that get close and hunt down the early camp which is absolutely doable with one warrior only (they can't heal, you can). No problem.
     
  9. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    I can't quite agree. Maybe it's because I'm not a top player, but my issue with barbs is not so much the number of units they spawn, but the fact that they are often ridiculously advanced technology wise. I'm not sure if they follow the "when two civs know the technology ..." rule, but it's not uncommon for me to have barbs show up with multiple swordsmen, crossbows or musketmen long before I even can think about researching that tech. And don't get me started on those horse camps, that will spawn multiple horsemen and horse archers super early in the game.

    I agree that the map generation script and civ starting locations is a real problem in Civ 6. Civ 5 had this great script* that divided the map into regions of roughly equal size, and then placed one civ in each region, but Civ 6 seems to place civs way too close to each other - either because the regions are too small, or because the new map script is bad.

    * I know a lot of modders hated that script, but I thought it was great!
     
  10. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I find it funny that this thread is a personal admittance of what one player has found that improves the game for them, and the OP still manages to end it with a jab against Firaxis, who have to make it playable for everybody. The reason why they gave us modding tools is to fill in the gaps they don't have the time or scope to factor in.

    The thing that bothers me the most are Barbarians, but I normally reroll if I'm really badly stuffed by them for any particular reason. Normally @Piruparka's advice works fine, but it's important to note that this doesn't always work, and the frequency with which camps can re-appear (or new ones be generated) can make the difference between a competitive start (even against the AI) and a death spiral.
     
  11. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Queen's

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    Both PC & Mac are now on the same version - 1.0.0.262 - as of the July update.
     
    679x likes this.
  12. LuckyAC

    LuckyAC Immortal

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    Yeah, most people enjoy a relaxed sandbox game without any difficulty or need to plan and execute well, as Firaxis is all too aware, unfortunately. But no matter how much they dumb down the game, though, there will be mods to make it even more trivial.
     
  13. c4c6

    c4c6 Chieftain

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    But doesn't that mean, we are living in the best of all worlds? Because there will be also a lot of good mods ... ;)

    Btw, has anybody noticed, that nobody asked for civ6 cheatcodes yet?!

    If in doubt, consult the signature.
     
  14. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord

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    Yeah, I've got my own list of reasons I don't enjoy Civ 6, but these two aren't on it (referring to #1 and #3, as #2 is just changing an existing game option). The curse of the diverse fan base, I guess.


    Barbs may be an early litmus test for how different people approach the game and the type of gaming experience they want. For me, the best I can get from Civ is a challenge to figure out how to win the game as quickly as I can. Either barbs are a welcome source of early era score, or they bottle me up in my starting cities for 40 to 50 turns, but I still win (as you don't really need to be doing anything on the map at that stage while you run up the civics and research trees). Sometimes the latter is even better, as a dozen barbarians swarming your territory is free protection against a neighbour's Warrior rush.

    My personal experience with barbarians, including the supposedly deadly horsemen barbarians (recently I had two horsemen camps spawning at the same time in the ancient era), is that they're the boogeymen. Meant to scare you, but if you don't panic, they never actually do anything to keep you from winning.

    Back to the litmus test point: if you're a player who enjoys building stuff that shows up on the map, growing a great empire, etc., then I can see barbarians getting in the way of you enjoying the game in the early stages. If, like me, you're focussed exclusively on "how can I win this game", barbarians versus no barbarians just impacts which boosts you go for when.

    So I'm really not sure that the barbarian issue is about player skill or tactical ability within the Civ 6 rules so much as it's about how you're trying to play the game. The players who want Civ to be a challenge to win have mostly moved on from Civ 6 anyway, I think, and weren't being impacted by barbarians regardless. Civ 6 really only shines at providing an experience for people who enjoy the empire building aspect of the game and pursuing all the different roads to victory. For the sake of that fan base, the development team really should re-think their approach to barbarians, as barbarians do get in the way and serve as a negative for these players. At this point, I think Firaxis really just needs to focus and make Civ 6 the best experience it can be for the people who already love the game.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    For a belief to be a proper belief, there must be some evidence that would change your mind if observed.

    Top complaint vs early barbs is that you can get scouted before 2nd unit is produced. Even with perfect control, it sets target civ back substantially relative to civs that get scouted 5-10 turns later. Since that is counter to the design of blocking/killing scouts keeping barbarians off you, it's considered degenerate even to the internal consistency of the mechanic itself.
     
    Sherlock likes this.
  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Barbs are fine except horse barbs. The presence of them effectively makes scouts and slingers (already very marginal openings) worthless and thus makes things much more stagnant then they need to be.
     
    Sherlock likes this.
  17. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    :rolleyes:
     
  18. kaltorak

    kaltorak Chieftain

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    About your barb issue, if you build 1 warrior and 1 slinger, plus your starting warrior, and get the obvious +5 against barbs social card, you shouldnt have any problems.
    You mention that the problem is more advanced barb units. Well, I wouldnt call it "10 turns into the game" like you say. They may get the units faster than you, but it still will take much more than 10 turns.
     
  19. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    I haven't had issues with barbs in a long time. That said, horse barbs right off the bat can still cause trouble. I've just been lucky, and I haven't had horse barbs right off in a long time. *knocks on wood*. Once you and the AI start filling out the space with some cities, it becomes a non issue mostly.

    And as mentioned, don't stray too far with that warrior. Lately I haven't been because the AI sometimes likes to attack early. I keep my warrior close to defend against the AI more than barbarians, but it works for both.

    My build order has been pretty steady for a while, and I'm happy with it. Scout, slinger, builder, settler. If things look safe and I don't care about the archery Eureka, then I move builder up on the order.
     
  20. Sykes179

    Sykes179 Chieftain

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    I don't see the point in using mods to simply make the game easier. Just go down a level until you get better.

    Lots of good advice re fighting barbarians. I sometimes keep a builder with one charge left to repair pillaged tiles. Apart from pillaging tiles and traders they dont actually do much harm. They won't take a city for example. Although I did lose a city to an AI after they acted in 'concert' to attack a city. The Barbarians placed my city under siege so an AI galley could take it!
     

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