The Truth About Airlifting - Why it's weird

Zouave

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Dec 21, 2001
Messages
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I had some problems with the game giving error messages, so I reinstalled it, and then applied the patch. I then went back into the Editor to make all the many necessary changes for playability and accuracy. A hassle. But, I noticed something interesting while editing . . .

I saw that all the following units had the "airlift" box checked, making them apparently eligible for that function: all ancient units, all forms of horse or cavalry, elephants, and even tanks!!

I can just see air transports packing in those pachyderms, or transporting fifty ton tanks en masse. Or all the horses! Imagine all the feed needed, and the mess! :lol: I wonder if Babylonian bowmen ever considered that way of crossing Mesopotamia.

Even more strange, cannon and artillery (lighter and easier to handle than the above), did not have the airlift box checked. :confused:

Point: if you want a semblance of realism with airlifting, uncheck the boxes of all ancient, horse, tank, and, yes, elephant units. Checking the boxes of cannon and artillery is optional. I don't advise it for radar artillery (too heavy).

If you care nothing about realism, don't bother.



Airlifting War Elephants. Sheeez. :lol: Sid, Sid. Come on.


BTW, the patch did not seem to give horsemen a zone of control. You may want to check that it does. I had to add it.
 
How is it "inaccurate" to be able to airlift cavalry units? Given the timeframe of turns even in the modern era, you could airlift ANYTHING. While I might wonder why you'd really want to bother airlifting units as obsolete as those cited are when airlift becomes available, I see no reason why you should be unable to. Airlifting armor units is impractical, but it can be done- modern US and Russian air forces have transport aircraft fully able to airlift tanks and other armored vehicles. If you want to talk about airlift oddities, why is it that workers, settlers and leaders aren't able to be airlifted? Surely, one leader ought to be liftable. In some nations, they've even been known to be given their own private jets...


Here's an example of a real-world airlift. This massive sculptural addition to the Milwaukee Art Museum (Santiago Calavra's "Brise Soleil") was airlifted via the huge Russian cargo plane in two flights. Take a look.
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How's that for "semblance of realism?"
 
You cite me one instance in History of cavalry being airlifted.
Didn't happend - too difficult and they were too heavy.

You cite me one example of an armor division being airlifted. Never happened - MUCH too heavy (in ANY time frame).

Why shouldn't cannon and artillery NOT be able to be airlifted?? They are not in the game, or weren't until I went into Editor.

Maybe you think chariots, knights, and even elephants (!) having airlift capabilities makes sense and does not make a mockery of realism. They have that capability in Civ III, until I changed it.


But maybe you really do think elephants fly. . . perhaps youre favorite movie is "Dumbo"? :lol: :p
 
Originally posted by Zouave
You cite me one instance in History of cavalry being airlifted.
Didn't happend - too difficult and they were too heavy.

You cite me one example of an armor division being airlifted. Never happened - MUCH too heavy (in ANY time frame).

Why shouldn't cannon and artillery NOT be able to be airlifted?? They are not in the game, or weren't until I went into Editor.

Maybe you think chariots, knights, and even elephants (!) having airlift capabilities makes sense and does not make a mockery of realism. They have that capability in Civ III, until I changed it.


But maybe you really do think elephants fly. . . perhaps youre favorite movie is "Dumbo"? :lol: :p

cavalry haven't been airlifted mainly becuase they were obsolete by the time airlifting started

what exactly is the difference between airlifting and transporting? Maybe im confused, cuz I know we airlifted/transported by air a lot of armor as well as artillery and such into Saudi Arabia for the Gulf War.

chariots, horses, elephants have all been transported places by air. So have tanks, mech inf, etc. So they all can be put on a plane and taken somewhere -- so what exactly is the difference btwn airlift and transported by air?
 
No difference - I have to admit I'm not sure what Zouave's issue is. I do agree that settlers et. al. should be liftable (except that it might be unbalancing?) I don't see any reason to restrict artillery.

I do think that the restriction of 1 unit per turn lifted out of each airport should be applied to flights coming in to an airport too...I don't see the logic of being able to fly 36 tanks from 36 airports to land them all at one! (Makes for great beachheads though!!) :goodjob:
 
Originally posted by Zouave

You cite me one example of an armor division being airlifted. Never happened - MUCH too heavy (in ANY time frame).


Uhhh...how do you think we got tanks and stuff quickly over to the Persian Gulf during the Gulf War. Or now in Afghanistan. You can't exactly park a transport ship off of Afhganistans coast since they don't have one! Tanks and armor get transported by plane all the time when needed quickly. Followed-up en masse by transport ships.

Hmmmm...kinda like Civ 3. Get some units quickly to the front lines while the slower transport ships bring in the massive numbers.

The huge cargo planes used by the U.S. and Russia are a site to behold. The C-5 can carry over 200 tons. See http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/lift_comp.htm for some cargo plane comparisons (I just searched Google for "military cargo plane" and there are several links to get info from.)

I do agree that settlers and workers along with leaders should be able to be airlifted. Calvary was never airlifted because armies didn't use them anymore by the time this type of technology came about (around or after WW II).
 
Hmm... I wasn't even aware that the Calatrava building in Milwaukee was airlifted... and I live there. Which part was lifted in? I know the majority of it was constructed on-the-spot (I drove past it every day while it was being constructed)
 
Who says elephants can't fly (or airlift)?? :groucho:

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Zouave, I am going to stoop to your level and resort to a personal slam. This is a game of "what-if" history. It is a simulation of civilizations based on real-world examples- it is NOT a re-creation of Earth history. Perhaps if you'd pull your head out of your ass you could see the subtle distinction.

The mockery of realism is that you yourself are so absorbed in your cloak of self-righteous historical puritanism that you fail to understand the difference between what has been done in true history, and what *could* be done. Yes, to my knowledge cavalry's never been airlifted, because in the age of aircraft, cavalry are obsolete. But in Civ 3, as you well know, obsolete units linger for a good long time. But that does not mean that cavalry units could not be airlifted, and should be disallowed from being able to.

I can tell you a few facts, Mr. Smartypants. Fact: you play Civ 3. Fact: By playing Civ3 you have participated in innumerable historical innacuracies. Fact: This makes you a hypocrite for slamming me about tolerating "mockery of realism."

Please cite me one historical instance of the Aztecs using mechanized infantry. Please cite me one historical incident of the Zulu building nuclear weapons. Please cite me one instance of the Iroquois building battleships. Please cite me one instance in history of the pyramids being in Moscow. Do you disband all of your obsolete units when the real world date of their obsolescence arrives? Do you forbid yourself to build mechanized units and aircraft until the 1900s? If you have EVER encountered any of the situations in Civ 3 I listed above, or instances of similar historical incongruity, I strongly urge you to do one of two things: stop playing the game if you find it so unsatisfyingly inaccurate, or shut your friggin piehole because I guarantee I'm not the only one sick of your smug attitude.

Perhaps your own favorite book is The Emperor's New Clothes.
 
Oh, ajohn505, they airlifted in the "wings." They were built elsewhere and flown into town. I also live in Milwaukee; it was all over the news, and I observed them transport the wings via truck away from the airport.
 
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