This is in continuation fr the Turkish thread in the Civilisations forum which had been locked. Replying to milty's post.
The Tang was a very cosmopolitan dynasty. They brought in the period when China was most open to the outside world. Large numbers of foreigners lived in Chang'an. Half a million foreigners were said to live in Canton, which was the main seaport to the West at this time. The Tang aristocracy played polo (a Persian sport) and led the military (very unChinese). Chinese arms reached the Hindu Kush.
You'll have to understand that the nomadic situation in Mongolia was very fluid. Tribes formed and broke; confederations rose and divided. The Xiong-nu arose in the time of the Qin and early Han; the Turks during the Sui and early Tang, in the same area. Losers in the political game were driven out or killed. Nothing stayed the same.
China's traditional enemy was any nomadic confederation fr the steppes; not any particular one, just whoever's there at that point in time.
The Turks were originally ironsmiths of the nomadic tribes in Mongolia. Later they formed their own confederation (in the steppe manner) and rose to power. This Turkish confederation proved to be the Tang empire's greatest enemy. But the Turkish confederation later splited into two and the Tang seized the chance to take one faction in as their allies and turned on the other, eventually breaking them and driving them to the West, specifically to Central Asia and beyond. The Seljuks formed portion of some of these displaced Turks.Posted by me
>>The original Turkish tribes arose in the same geographical area as the Hsiung-nu. They formed a great confederation which threatened the Chinese Tang empire in the 7th or 8th century AD, but were eventually divided and driven west by the Tang emperors (who were half-Turkish themselves). In the course of their migration to Central Asia, then Persia, then Mesopotamia, then Anatolia, they picked up Mid-Eastern characteristics (mingling with locals).
To say they were of the same racial stock (originally) as the Huns would probably be correct but eventually developments would differentiate the two peoples. >>
Posted by milty
Personally I'm not sure where the original Turks came from but from a brief research most indications say the Seljuks were of nomad stock near the Caspian Sea. That is considerably farther west than the Xiung-Nu or Xian-Bei or Yian or other nomads in the northern far east.
The Qin kingdom was in the Wei valley, further west (the one where Xi'an is today). Not sure where the Li family had their original power base though. They're not warlords; they're part of the aristocracy of the preceding Sui dynasty and held important positions in the imperial hierarchy. After the Sui crumbled, Li Shimin persuaded his father to rebel and form his own dynastic line. They were holding one of the frontier military commands.The Tang dynasty family, founded by Li Yuen and his son Li Shi-ming, were originally warlords in the Taiyuen area in Shanxi, near where the orignal Qin kingdom was in the 4th century BC.
Li Shimin's mother and grandma were Turkish. Tu-jue meant Turkish I think.They were "rumored" to have at least a little central asian stock in them, most likely Tu-jue. This may have been because of the liberal policy of the Tang concerning non-Han people, and many ethnic minorities attained high offices, the most famous being An Lu-shan, whose rebellion nearly toppled the Tang.
The Tang was a very cosmopolitan dynasty. They brought in the period when China was most open to the outside world. Large numbers of foreigners lived in Chang'an. Half a million foreigners were said to live in Canton, which was the main seaport to the West at this time. The Tang aristocracy played polo (a Persian sport) and led the military (very unChinese). Chinese arms reached the Hindu Kush.
The Xiongnu were long gone by the time the Tang came to power. Also Xinjiang is Eastern Turkestan, or hadn't you heard. The Xiongnus' role were filled by others, of which the Turks were simply the latest at that time.The Tang did defeat a western Tölös-Turks in 657 at a location west of the present province of Xinjian, probably in Turkestan. This prehaps is an indication of Turkish powers in the far western border of China, and the name Turkestan seems to point to that, but they have very little in relation with the traditional enemy of ancient China, the Xiung-Nu.
You'll have to understand that the nomadic situation in Mongolia was very fluid. Tribes formed and broke; confederations rose and divided. The Xiong-nu arose in the time of the Qin and early Han; the Turks during the Sui and early Tang, in the same area. Losers in the political game were driven out or killed. Nothing stayed the same.
China's traditional enemy was any nomadic confederation fr the steppes; not any particular one, just whoever's there at that point in time.