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The Ultimate Colonial Civs thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, Dec 11, 2018.

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What do you think of Colonial Civs?

  1. Love em

    41.9%
  2. Hate em

    23.8%
  3. Wish they were implemented differently

    34.3%
  1. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Sure? Why not? As long as Firaxis builds an interesting civ from their history, I don't care if their history is 5 years long or 5,000 years.
     
  2. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

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    Agreed. If they had a good (and respectful) design for South Sudan I'd be down for it.
     
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  3. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

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    I think others have already said it better than I could but I'm definitely in the love 'em camp. Maybe it's because I'm not a historian but I see absolutely no reason why they should be excluded. It's called Civilization, not Ancient Civilizations or The Cradle of Civilization.
     
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  4. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    How much history can you have if it's only 5 years long? Do you want to see Yugoslavia in the game? You have to draw the line somewhere. Personally I would draw it at the end of the 19th century. Between the transition from industrial era to modern era.
     
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  5. Sagax

    Sagax Emperor

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    Sealand best civ.
     
  6. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

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    My number one most wanted civ, what of it?
     
  7. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Yugoslavia has quite a lot of mostly unhappy history since its creation after WWI. Now the FYROM doesn't have much history and made most of it up.
     
  8. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    I would rather have some colonial civs mixed in for variety than the 6th and 7th civ with a swordsman replacement.
     
  9. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    They did this at one point, didn't they? Maybe I'm getting my games and/or mods mixed up, but I could've swore in one of the Civ games (4?) there was this exact colonization mechanic - if you settled 3 or more cities on a separate continent from your own you could choose to let them form a colony, and they'd essentially join the game as a brand new civ (that was basically a vassal at first, IIRC). Guess it didn't get much use since not a lot of people have mentioned it... or I'm just not remembering correctly.

    I get that you seem to want the colonial civs to show up in these situations and not just anybody, but I dunno... if America, Canada, Brazil, etc are going to be in the game I'd rather just be able to pick them from the start. The anachronism doesn't bother me in the least, but admittedly that's personal preference. If playing as America in earlier eras bothers people, just pretend you're actually starting as an ancestor civ, that eventually became the British, that eventually became the Americans.

    If we're going to argue that civs shouldn't be around before they were in the real world, does that mean civs that aren't around any more shouldn't be allowed to play in the more recent ages. Heck, when you've got all your bonuses early it's not like you're adding anything new to the late game anyways...
     
  10. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    How much history do you need? We're all part of the human story. Each civ is a snippet of that story. Telling the stories in a respectful and interesting way is all I'd ask. Oh, and make the civ interesting to play.
     
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  11. clapyourhands

    clapyourhands Prince

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    You can easily (and people already have) make an interesting civ out of pretty much anything. IMO Yugoslavia is not a very good example of an "undesirable" civ because it has a lot of unique things going for it--a unique political set-up, a dramatic history, a famous leader with a distinct personality, a so-far unrepresented area of modern history etc. Plenty of material for a distinct civilization, both gameplay-wise and thematically.
     
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  12. jddods

    jddods Prince

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    I want to thank @acluewithout for such an interesting thread.
    I’ve really enjoyed reading on why people like or dislike colonial civs and to a lessor extent why some people feel the need to tell others why they shouldn’t like/dislike colonial civs. One thing I found interesting that has come through the discussion is what people see as a civilization. As I’ve said I feel there is no right or wrong answer but as fanatics we are quite passionate about our beloved franchise.
     
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  13. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    @jddods Thanks!

    To be clear. I think the Colonial Civs should continue to be selectable from the start or be randomly AI Civs at the start. I’m just saying that, in addition: (1) I’d like some more district mechanics for each Civ to have colonies, and or (2) if there are colonials Civs not in the game from the start, I’d like a random chance they spawn later in the game, say after the Industrial Era, and or (3) some proper colonial scenarios so you can really play America etc, as they were designed.

    The way the game works, I think you do basically have to have Colonial Civs and Leaders that are in the game from the Ancient Era, regardless of whether it’s anachronistic or not. Otherwise, how would anyone play America etc? But having Colonial Civs in the game shouldn’t stop development of other Colonial Mechanics.
     
  14. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    5 years isn't enough for a Civ if all the potential leaders for that nation are still alive.....:p
     
  15. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

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    Man, I'd love it if, say, two or more free cities were in range such that they could put loyalty pressure on one another, they'd instead become a random civ not previously in the game. Like, Hi, we were Frankfurt and Baltimore. Now we are France. Deal with it.
     
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  16. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    I hear ya, but like I said... that's been in a Civilization game before, right? Or am I just mis-remembering?

    I'm 100% on board with new civs showing up as the game progresses. I've always thought it'd be a cool feature to have, especially if there's an unsettled landmass somewhere on the map that people have been neglecting.
     
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  17. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    @bengalryan9 No worries. You might be right. And at any rate, something along those lines would be perfect.
     
  18. dagriggstar

    dagriggstar Prince

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    I think ultimately civs in the base and expansions should be evenly distributed by time (ancient medieval renaissance modern) and space (Europe, Middle East, East Asia, Africa and the Americas). I think it's the best way to attempt to encompass all history.

    dlc civs should be large gaming markets that may potentially disrupt that balance. Dlc to me is just there to make a little more money. Generally I think "colonial civs" fit here but not always.

    I don't take into account say whether a civ is colonial or not. But obviously you can have only so many civs as modern (the only time split they fall into). Some of these slots taken by non colonial civs (America, Japan even though it rarely is portrayed that way, Germany, Russia, England). So they'd cap out I guess at 20% ish. There are other non colonial candidates (Burma, Oman, Ethiopia) to consider too.

    Civ vii I'd like a colonial mechanic. I do remember it from iv I don't think the incentives were high enough for it to be worthwhile most of the time however.

    My ideal game layout would involve much more ebb and flow, actual rise and fall. Part of that would be a colonial mechanic. But the challenge is how do you make that
    1) Worthwhile for the coloniser, like you have approximately 100 game turns before like an independence war or something
    2) have potentially game changing civs spawning (like how to catch up to old world)

    I have this idea about like the amount of beakers you get depending partly on how many civs you know. So like many smaller civs would advance faster than one isolated big one (or one small one). So you wouldn't even need the Terra empty world thing (feels unhistorical anyway). An entire continent would likely be equal tech runaways run around conquering other continents, then each other. But implementation is hard....under such circumstances much more colonial emphasis would be needed
     
  19. HoorayForSiam

    HoorayForSiam Chieftain

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    Ohhh, this is the thread I’ve been waiting for!

    So as for a colonial mechanic, I’d assume the best way to implement that would be for cities on different continents with low enough loyalty to revolt break off and form a sort of “league of free cities” taking the name of the parent civilization (i.e. “Commonwealth of Japan” or “Confederation of New Rome”). While not functioning as full civilizations, they could be essentially be a “mega city state”. And speaking of city states, a similar mechanic would be cool for them as well, for example maybe militaristic city states could form the “Defensive League” or religious city states forming a “Holy League”.

    Aside from that, there are some postcolonial civs I would love to see:

    Argentina (Eva Peron)
    Bahamas (Henry Avery)
    Colombia (Simon Bolivar)
    Cuba (Jose Marti)
    Haiti (Touissant Louverture)
    Israel (Golda Meir)
    Mexico (Benito Juarez)
    Nigeria (Nnamdi Azikiwe)
    Philippines (Corazon Aquino)
    South Africa (Nelson Mandela)
    Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh)
    Yugoslavia (Josip “Tito” Broz)

    Although, a few of these are controversial for obvious reasons.
     
  20. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I think having colonial civs and having good colonial mechanics are best being two different things, even if the bizarre result is playing ancient era America and then founding American colonies in the modern era. Otherwise you’d need to radically recast the game - in which case, maybe it would just be easier playing EU4.

    Personally, rather than having colonies being flipped cities, I’d rather at some point you have the option to settle colonies instead of just settlements, perhaps by using a new type of settler. These colonies would work differently somehow, and loyalty would work differently too.

    Staying on thread, as I’ve said, Civ has to have Colonial Civs. I’m not a fan of them, but I’d be unhappy not having them too. I just think the game needs a few more options around the whole colonial thing.
     
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