The UN voting system & vassal issues

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by altceva, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. altceva

    altceva Chieftain

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    Hi,

    I have some questions about the UN voting.

    1. How can a resolution fail when it gets enough votes? It's just me, or this game has a problem? Please check the attachment below, what does this mean? Fails with 345 votes, although it needs only 206?

    2. In that panel, my name is Pesti, Zara and Cyrus are my vassals. Why are they voting against me? I said "yes", why are they saying "no"? Can a vassal do that, and more important, why? Also, is a vassal supposed to give me whatever I request from him (tech, resources, money)? Why are they refusing me and act just like before capitulation, the only difference being that I have the right to pass on their territory and they automatically join me when I start a war?


    Many thanks for the answers!
     

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  2. Mcclaud

    Mcclaud Chieftain

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    If a civ defies that resolution (NEVER!), which is what Zara Yaqob did, then no matter how many votes there are, the resolution fails. At the same time though, the defying civ gets a -1/2 relationship hit with every other civ.
     
  3. altceva

    altceva Chieftain

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    I see... So, what's the best way to convince Zara to say "yes" or "no" and not "defy"? He's already on friendly with me. Should I eliminate him?

    Also, why Zara, as my vassal, refuses to give me his tech? Shouldn't this get an automatic war between us?
     
  4. Mcclaud

    Mcclaud Chieftain

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    I think the best way would be to bribe him to adopt Free Speech, and keep him at it until the UN resolution comes again, that way, he might not have a choice.

    What does it say when you try to trade tech with him?
     
  5. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Saying never! does not give a diplomatic demerit. However, that gives 5 unhappy faces in each city for each time the leader choses Never!
     
  6. altceva

    altceva Chieftain

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    He adopted Free Speech at my request a few turns before the vote, but still defying the resolution after. When I ask him to give me his tech as a true friend he is, he says no. When he was cautious towards me, he wasn't willing to pay the tech as tribute either...

    Is this normal? The difficulty is Noble.
     
  7. Mcclaud

    Mcclaud Chieftain

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    I haven't experienced this problem before.
     
  8. davelisowski

    davelisowski Spartan

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    I think war is the only solution.

    But as for this particular problem, i have not experienced it. i usually don't play with diplomatic victory enabled.
     
  9. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    In BtS 3.19, the AI pretty much votes at random. Some have accused the programmers of pretty much leaving the AI related to voting as "skeleton" or "placeholder" code.

    You'd have to start using the Better AI mod or one of the mods that include Better AI if you want to see AIs make votes that make a bit more sense.
     
  10. The Snug

    The Snug The Civ Heretic

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    Has this been considered for fixing for 3.21?
     
  11. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I can not confirm nor deny. :p
     
  12. nadeem

    nadeem Chieftain

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    if you're voting on free speech, shouldn't they be able to say whatever they want?!
     
  13. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    As far as I know that part of the code was not touched by Better AI yet .. or have I missed some it in some changelog?

    P.S The skeleton reference is mine :p
     
  14. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Well I couldn't tell you straight away what all the changes do, but there's extensive Better AI code changes made to the function CvPlayerAI::AI_diploVote.

    I base my observations mainly off the code merging I do, rather than the changelogs, for better ai.
     
  15. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Must give a look then... I was convinced that the code hadn't been changed yet ;)
     
  16. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Now I get it ...

    We are actually talking of two diferent parts of the code ;) Indeed the AI logic on how to vote in a resolution ( CvPlayerAI::AI_diploVote ) was already changed a lot by better AI , but what I and others called "placeholder" and "skeleton" was the code that the AI uses to choose what resolution to put in vote when they are the Sec. General ( the thread is from 3.17 time, but neither 3.19 or Better AI up to 0.82 changed that so far ) that is in CvTeamAI::AI_chooseElection. As you can see for yourself, the mechanism resumes in checking what resolutions are avaliable and toss a coin in the air ( aka call the RNG ) to choose between them.
     
  17. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    :mischief: I suspected the confusion was due to something like that.

    I'm sure the sec general code would be on the bbai todo list...
     
  18. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    But surely they would have to vote yes in order to vote whatever they want? ;)
     
  19. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Not saying that it isn't random, but voting for others to adopt your civic is not always the best.

    If I have a good one I may vote to not make it mandatory, so others use a worse one.
     
  20. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    The few times I have gotten the UN, I have used the Global Civic - Free Religion resolution to bust up the religious alliances. It works wonders.
     

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