The Unconventional Empress Izzy

[Gwaja]

I just finished an offline Monarch game and decided to roll another one, this time on Emperor for another private offline game. But here I am posting the starting position because it looks really interesting, and I think there will be some interest.

Here is our unconventional leader:

Spoiler :

And the starting position:

Spoiler :

Game Settings:

Spoiler :

I count 5 visible food resources and if I move 1NE, I can grab ALL of them. The positioning of these food resources and the lay of the land makes it quite a challenge if I want to split these resources into two cities.

Now, with the warrior, I had a strange hunch: What if there is another seafood to the east? That would make things even more complicated, wouldn't it? So I decided to move the warrior 1E, and here is what I got:

Spoiler :

You have absolutely got to be kidding me. ^_^ Now where you would you place Madrid and if you were to try to split the food, how would you go about doing it?

You could elect to put a future city where the warrior is currently, making it a great GP farm in the future. That would mean that you would have to move the settler either to the west or to the south where exploring that direction prior to settling was and still is impossible due to the warrior's initial location... and in the process of moving, you might end up putting Madrid away from the coast and making it inland.

There is just so much food here, it screams for GP farm regardless. And the fact that Izzy starts with Fishing makes things quite interesting as well.

I named the title "Unconventional" because there might be a possibility that I might try for an early religion, hence the title. Of course, I might not even do it, but maybe others might want to try. Also, her unique building, citadel, is a replacement of castle that almost never gets built in my games, but I just might want to try building one or two. The conquistador makes for a great unit for conquest as well. Her traits aren't too shabby either... great combination.

As you can tell, Izzy is one of my favorite leader to play as. ^_^

The goal is to:

1. Utilize Izzy's UU and UB to maximize their effects and advantages.
2. Utilize Izzy's trait combination.

Possible and encouraged tactics include:

1. Try out for one of the early religions and try making it a dominant religion.
2. The Oracle slingshot to Monarchy, Code of Laws, or Metal Casting.
3. Massive accumulation.
4. Perhaps a Great Priest economy: A shrine for the founded religion + Settled Great Priest for and .
5. Building one or a few citadels for siege unit combat bonus. Delaying Economics may also be an option if feasible.
6. Conquistador!
7. Any other "unconventional" tactics available that may be useful.

The only rule that must be followed:

If Izzy founds a religion, she must take Christianity if it is still available, since "Choose Religion" setting is enabled in this game.

Let's give it a go! ^_^

 

[Noogai]

Non-fin capital with 15 water tiles but with a lot of food. GP farm sounds good idea, but on the other hand you could aband that fish and still get 5 food tiles and one extra hill (but yea, 1 extra hill in cap vs one extra food in 2nd city..). I guess I will join you to play this if you post worldbuilder "save" because those AutoSaves don't work with my Civ BTS for some reason.

 

[michmbk]

Seems like you either settle where the warrior is, or settle 1W (1 off coast for capital, yuck...) and settle a later city where warrior is. I'd probably go the former.

Early scouting is key - with another potential landmass nearby, the GLH could be awfully appealing in this one. Not to mention it looks like there might be opportunity to settle a fair number of coastal sites given where we are on the peninsula. Send a workboat to scout a few turns to see if you have an island there for trade opportunities.

EDIT: I'm not playing much civ these days, but I scouted around for 20 turns and then looked in worldbuilder. You should play this one out on the forum - this really looks like it could be an intriguing game.

 

[Gwaja]

Non-fin capital with 15 water tiles but with a lot of food. GP farm sounds good idea, but on the other hand you could aband that fish and still get 5 food tiles and one extra hill (but yea, 1 extra hill in cap vs one extra food in 2nd city..). I guess I will join you to play this if you post worldbuilder "save" because those AutoSaves don't work with my Civ BTS for some reason.

It's really a dilemma. Settling in place effectively renders the northern clam useless, so that's probably not optimal either. I don't think I have ever gotten a start where I hesitated so much to make a decision as to where to settle.

As for the world builder save, I prefer not to access it in fear that I might see too much of what the landscape is, and etc. If anyone out there who is not really interested in playing this game could lend us a hand and provide a world builder save? If nobody is willing, I will bite the bullet, cover up as much as I can of the screen and provide you one. ^_^

Seems like you either settle where the warrior is, or settle 1W (1 off coast for capital, yuck...) and settle a later city where warrior is. I'd probably go the former.

Early scouting is key - with another potential landmass nearby, the GLH could be awfully appealing in this one. Not to mention it looks like there might be opportunity to settle a fair number of coastal sites given where we are on the peninsula. Send a workboat to scout a few turns to see if you have an island there for trade opportunities.

EDIT: I'm not playing much civ these days, but I scouted around for 20 turns and then looked in worldbuilder. You should play this one out on the forum - this really looks like it could be an intriguing game.

The tile where the blue circle is also might be an option because it is coastal, you still keep the corn and 3 hills as well. Of course, since no scouting was done towards that area, we are taking a risk by going that way, not to mention we will be spending 2 turns to settle the capital. Normally, I would never consider spending 2 turns to found a capital, but maybe in this case, it could be an exception... hence the tile "Unconventional Izzy!"

I am not sure how good of a capital it would be if I settle where the warrior is. Initially, it lacks hammers in getting out early work boats. I don't know really.

The map is Big & Small, so it is very possible that setting up coastal cities may be more beneficial than maps like Pangaea. So I agree, early scouting is key. And that will determine whether the Great Lighthouse is desired or not.

Perhaps I will give this one a try as an online forum game. The start was so interesting though that I just had to post it.

EDIT: If a city is to be settled where the warrior is, that city could certainly use the Colossus as well as the Moai Statues and National Epic for the 2 national wonders.

 

[GKey]

As for the world builder save, I prefer not to access it in fear that I might see too much of what the landscape is, and etc. If anyone out there who is not really interested in playing this game could lend us a hand and provide a world builder save? If nobody is willing, I will bite the bullet, cover up as much as I can of the screen and provide you one. ^_^

I guess you run BAT mode, which is BUG+BULL+Blue Marble. You can install all these in custom assets folder (BULL is just a CvGameCoreDLL.dll to download), thus making your saves compatible with any version. Well, almost with any version, BUFFY requires original CvGameCoreDLL.dll, replaced by BULL, so you can just keep a copy of original one.

Regarding game, as have been mentioned, scouting is a key.

I would spend 1-2 turns moving west or south-west, sharing food with future GP farm and making cap good buro one. Checking that blue circle might be not bad idea too. That may cause you losing early religion though.

 

[huerfanista]

The wet corn is the best tile we can see, so I think it's important to keep it in the capital - this rules out moving E-NE.

The E-NE spot would make a fantastic GP farm, so it would be nice to save that location - this rules out NE.

The blue circle looks attractive to me - keeps the corn and 3 grass hills. Losing 2 turns is no big deal if we can pick up a forested plains hill. In that case, the EXP bonus in getting out the first worker would make up for the 2 lost turns.

Thus, I'd move the settler W first, with the intention of settling on the blue dot.

 

[lymond]

I'm kinda with nista on this one. Of course, 1NE is still a pretty darn good GP farm, but the getting the fish makes it stellar. So moving the cap to a viable position that saves that nice spot seems like a good idea and worth losing 2 turns. The 2 cities can share mines as needed and each one will have a lake farm.

The other option would be to settle for the fish now and go BW asap and use the whip to get your empire up pretty quickly with a plan to move the cap somewhere else later.

 

[michmbk]

Worldbuilder save - I'm a fan of going with the 5 food location and using chop/whip to get settlers out. I could see the merit of going for the blue circle based on what we know, but losing 2 turns is tough.

 

[Gwaja]

I guess you run BAT mode, which is BUG+BULL+Blue Marble. You can install all these in custom assets folder (BULL is just a CvGameCoreDLL.dll to download), thus making your saves compatible with any version. Well, almost with any version, BUFFY requires original CvGameCoreDLL.dll, replaced by BULL, so you can just keep a copy of original one.

Regarding game, as have been mentioned, scouting is a key.

I would spend 1-2 turns moving west or south-west, sharing food with future GP farm and making cap good buro one. Checking that blue circle might be not bad idea too. That may cause you losing early religion though.

I think you are referring to Noogai on your 1st paragraph regarding the compatibility? Nevertheless, it is a nice info indeed. Thanks for the tip! ^_^

Early religion is out of the question if I spend 2 turns moving the settler.

@huerfanista and lymond,

I spent one additional turn to move the settler 1W and found this:

Spoiler :

3 jumbos all on regular flat grassland tiles. Those tiles are 2, 2, and 1 each. Wow! Now the question is, do I want to stay here or move 1NW to the blue circle? It looks like to the NW of the blue circle, it's jungles.

Unfortunately, no forested plains hills... but the jumbos...!!

 

[GKey]

@Gwaja Ups. Why was I sure you run BAT mode.

Settling where you are now will leave you 1 of coast, with only 2 hills in BFC, grassland phants - pretty average tile. I'd cottage at least 1 of these 3 phants, you lose 1 hammer, but get way more commerce after a while. Trading ivory away can be dangerous.

Blue circle looks better, with 4 grassland hills (that usually are better then plain ones). Better if you find even more sea food there.

 

[Noogai]

Worldbuilder save - I'm a fan of going with the 5 food location and using chop/whip to get settlers out. I could see the merit of going for the blue circle based on what we know, but losing 2 turns is tough.

Thank you, I'll try it out on the evening.

Anyway, now we have used the first turn so we basicly lost our change for early religion, so why not to spend another turn to get in that blue circle? Maybe there is gems, bananas or more seafood hidding in there. Or not.. Another option is to make non-coastal capital, but to me that would be quite silly idea.

 

[Gwaja]

I played a bit to 2400 BC (Turn 40):

Spoiler :

I moved the settler to the blue circle and found my capital city there. It is coastal, still keeps the wet corn and claims 4 grassland hills as well as 3 jumbos on regular flat grassland tiles. Taking the risk to move the settler for 2 turns pays off quite well here:

Spoiler :

I immediately set my tech path to Agriculture → Hunting to improve the tiles around the capital. It is good that there are some minable hills due to not having a forest or jungle on top of it.

The warrior scouted along the coast to the south, and eventually he found some good potential city site:

Spoiler :

Settling where the warrior is will claim gold, fish, and rice, which is not wet. Also 1S of the gold looks viable as well.

On Turn 8, Islam was founded in the distant land. No worries guys. “Choose Religion” is on in this game. Most likely this is from Meditation.

On Turn 14, we meet our first neighbor:

Spoiler :

Louis is one of the most annoying AI. He loves to horde wonders, sometimes beating me to wonders I want, and is also creative, which gives me headaches if he is close enough. He often likes to go culture victory as well, and most of the time, I resorted to razing one of his high culture cities to block him from winning cultural victories.

On Turn 16, we find some stone and another fish that is inconveniently located as to probably never be able to be worked. Unfortunately, a very dangerous neighbor resides nearby this area:

Spoiler :

If Louis is downright annoying, Cathy is one of the more dangerous ones. She is a bit far away from me but I have no doubt that she will be expanding very fast in this game. The stone will be claimed by her obviously, so my initial excitement dissipated very quickly.

On Turn 18, I finished Hunting. I went for Mining → Bronze Working to be able to mine the hills and clear the forests around the capital.

Some turns pass, as my warriors fight off the animals in the wild while exploring. Capital is building warriors until it grows to size 3, for scouting purposes. Then on Turn 29, we meet another AI:

Spoiler :

Sully is another dangerous AI. I don't think he is close to me though. Nevertheless, in relatively few games that I have had him as an AI in my games, he has always been a dangerous foe. I don't see him a lot so it's refreshing to see him instead of getting someone like Alex or Genghis who has been showing up consistently in my games lately.

On Turn 37, upon getting out my 2nd worker and letting the capital grow to size 4 while getting another warrior for the same number of turns, I met my closest neighbor:

Spoiler :

Given my position on this map, along with the fact that 2 religions have been founded already, I am glad that I didn't try to found an early religion. Obviously, Sal did found one of these religions... no surprise there. His location is rather awkward.... not too far but not too close either. Probably too far for an axe rush, not to mention that he is protective.

On Turn 38, Christianity is founded in the distant land. And I also met another AI, who is, just like Louis, one of the most annoying AI in this game:

Spoiler :

I don't like him at all. I despise him just as much as Louis but in a different way. He techs well even when he is small. At least Mansa makes a great tech trade partner... this guy on the other hand, have never been a good trading partner with me because he always tends to join an odd religious block, often get beaten down and capped to another warmonger, and is for the most part in my games, just a downright annoying pest.

Next turn, I finished Bronze Working. And now where is that copper?

Spoiler :

Boy... talk about very inconvenient locations... one of them is like right next to Sal's 2nd city, while the other is a bit far off towards Cathy with all that jungle right in between. Also notice the 2 river side gold hills as well as rice and whole bunch of flood plains east of Medina. I am gonna have to get my settler up there quick.

Anyways, this is where I am going to stop. Madrid is building a settler which will be done in 7 turns if I slow build it, but I will definitely chop out a forest to speed it up. I wanted to make sure that I improve the grassland tiles west of Madrid so that I won't get any jungles to spread there.

Map of the North & South:

Spoiler :

Not sure where I should be placing my cities here. Grabbing the copper is a priority, but claiming those gold hills will always be great. The land is a bit funky with all those jungles around though. Could Iron Working be a priority in this map?

Capital:

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Diplo:

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Sal, Sully, and Louis each founded their own religion, so they all are running different religions. Like I said, I am glad that I didn't go for an early religion. Otherwise, it would have been pain. Spreading my founded religion would also have been difficult because of where I am located.

Save file attached for viewing.

 

[Gwaja]

@Gwaja Ups. Why was I sure you run BAT mode.

Settling where you are now will leave you 1 of coast, with only 2 hills in BFC, grassland phants - pretty average tile. I'd cottage at least 1 of these 3 phants, you lose 1 hammer, but get way more commerce after a while. Trading ivory away can be dangerous.

Blue circle looks better, with 4 grassland hills (that usually are better then plain ones). Better if you find even more sea food there.

No problem. ^_^

Yeah I figured as much that settling in place in this case, is probably not very optimal. I did move the settler to the blue circle, settled there, and I think it was a solid choice.

Interesting that you suggest cottaging the jumbo tile... didn't even cross my mind. It makes great sense though. I put camps on all of them in my game, but perhaps I should consider the cottaging option.

 

[Riflin'Joe]

The map is Big & Small, so it is very possible that setting up coastal cities may be more beneficial than maps like Pangaea. So I agree, early scouting is key. And that will determine whether the Great Lighthouse is desired or not.

A TRE seems logical for Isabella on a water map, with cheap harbours and a castle replacement UB (which you should definitely build at least in your unit producton city; CR3 trebs are amazing). If you happen to have marble, you might consider the Temple of Artemis. Its usually mediocre, but with its merchant/priest combo Isabella seems like one leader who might get the best use out of it.

But obviously you'll need a good idea of the land and neighbours as usual, before you start thinking seriously about wonderbuilding.

 

[Gwaja]

A TRE seems logical for Isabella on a water map, with cheap harbours and a castle replacement UB (which you should definitely build at least in your unit producton city; CR3 trebs are amazing). If you happen to have marble, you might consider the Temple of Artemis. Its usually mediocre, but with its merchant/priest combo Isabella seems like one leader who might get the best use out of it.

But obviously you'll need a good idea of the land and neighbours as usual, before you start thinking seriously about wonderbuilding.

As of what I can see at the moment, wonder building doesn't seem too attractive at the moment. Stone is too far away, and marble is nowhere in sight yet.

I think I've already met everyone except for maybe 1 AI, so it is almost like playing a pangaea map here.... hmmm....

I have had a few games where I had built the Temple of Artemis and the Great Lighthouse in the same city in a Big & Small map and had great success netting so much commerce from trade routes. It is really powerful in certain situations, but in this map, I am not really seeing it.

On citadels: I almost never build castles, but that +4 exp from citadels on siege weapons just look too good to pass up and I definitely want to try it.

 

[Riflin'Joe]

Sorry, I didn't see you'd already played the first few turns, my bad. I think now you need to grab the double gold and the gems asap and use them to tech through to construction and hbr, followed by killing someone...

I wonder about how you might use that GP Farm. I know we automatically tend to run scientists and bulb towards lib, but you could also try merchants for trade missions to fuel your warmongering. Just a thought...

 

[Gwaja]

Sorry, I didn't see you'd already played the first few turns, my bad. I think now you need to grab the double gold and the gems asap and use them to tech through to construction and hbr, followed by killing someone...

I wonder about how you might use that GP Farm. I know we automatically tend to run scientists and bulb towards lib, but you could also try merchants for trade missions to fuel your warmongering. Just a thought...

I think I posted my play just as you were posting. ^_^

I think my dilemma is where to put the cities to grab those juicy gold and gems, as well as the copper, and making the cities viable for a long term.

For GP farm, at least one Great Scientist for an academy in a Bureaucracy capital for sure. I too love Great Merchants, and I think it is something I am definitely interested in running. Although you happen to get more Great Scientists earlier due to the availability of libraries much earlier than anything else.

 

[vranasm]

hmm after the settler move 1W... I actually thought about settling on the ivory, but that would be probably dumb with 3 lakes in BFC and no way to get LH.

looks like good land for GLH

 

[Noogai]

I played to 1000AD when I got liberalism.

Spoiler :

Now setting up better economy. I think I did something wrong around 1AD, but now I'm doing fine again. I'm planning to make conquistor (also nice siege boosted with citadels) rush on Pacal or Saladin. Saladin doesn't like me, but Pacal is alone with his religion and seems to be a bit weaker too.

 

[Gwaja]

To Tun 76: 975 BC

Spoiler :

A short post this time. I erected 3 more cities to grab the copper, gems, the double gold, the rice near the double gold, and the future GP farm.

I switched to Slavery upon getting Bronze Working, and then got pretty much all the basic worker techs including Pottery. I researched through Polytheism --> Priesthood to try for the Oracle in Madrid. I timed it so that I will get Pottery one turn before the completion of the Oracle so that I can take Metal Casting from it. I looked at the number of turns that have passed and knew that it was gonna be built very soon, so I chopped like crazy, with a lucky break of a forest spawning after I chopped one down some turns earlier. I even resorted to starving Madrid for a bit to work all the hammer intensive tiles.

And my gamble paid off in big ways:

Spoiler :

Pyramids is probably out of the question, so I could have gone Monarchy instead, but I chose to take Metal Casting instead. If I can get a forge up soon and run an engineer, maybe I might be able to snatch a Great Engineer, who knows? ^_^ And the extra 25% hammer bonus is nice. I am expansive, so I have some wiggle room with health issues.

Empire:

Spoiler :

4 cities as mentioned. The GP farm was an obvious one, while the others I tried to put them in a decent spot as much as I could. The copper is in a heavily contested spot with Sal, but this one was closer than the other one that is nearby Cathy, which is rather poor in food. Besides this spot claims the gems and gold, so I took the gamble here. Since I just opened borders with Sal, hopefully Islam will spread to me.

The copper city will need some culture buildings put in ASAP.

Medina is rather thinly defended with only 1 archer, but Sal's power rating is higher than me. I did put all my espionage points into him. Not sure if rushing with axes on Sal is a good play here. Too many turns have passed by, but that Medina city is really getting on my nerves.

Not sure where else to expand towards.

Spoiler :

I am probably not going to settle into the jungle immediately, and the stone location will most likely be grabbed by Cathy, if not already done, so the "A" marker is the only interesting location here. A bit far from Madrid, but there is nothing in between that seems like a good city site. The "A" marker isn't great without a border pop so it will struggle... not to mention lack of forest to chop out a monument and poor food initially.

Spoiler :

The north of wine shows clearly visible barbarian city's culture. The "B" marker looks great for lots of commerce via cottages or even farms, but only 1 desert hill and 3 desert tiles. I could also think about settling where the barbarian archer is, and it will give me 2 hills as well as the pig.

Spoiler :

With all that jungle, it makes settling a bit tough. I could certainly use a filler city between Barcelona and Madrid, but I don't see anywhere viable.

Only Sal and Sully have Writing, and I opened borders with them. Currently researching Writing and then probably gonna go for Aesthetics. I need to get at least a couple or more of libraries up soon, as well as a forge or two.

It's a long shot but maybe the Great Engineer from running one engineer specialist from the forge (if I do get one that is) may just give me the Pyramids... if done soon enough.

Capital:

Spoiler :

The plan for this city is to accumulate 59 for 6 turns. The city will grow into unhappiness in 3 turns, due to jumbos and gold not being hooked up, but this will be fixed soon. Anyway, after accumulating 59 here for 6 turns, I am planning to 3-pop whip a forge and apply the overflow into a granary, then work on the library and whip it out for probably 2 pop.

Planned Tech Path:

Writing --> Aesthetics --> Few turns of research into Alphabet --> Trade for Iron Working, Alphabet. Also thinking about possibly bulbing Mathematics if I get a Great Scientist soon enough, and then go straight to Construction with Masonry gained via self research or trade. Getting Monarchy via trade is also desirable.

Desired War Target: Sal. No question about it!