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The Unified Economic Theory, 2nd Edition

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Trade-peror, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. Trade-peror

    Trade-peror UET Economist

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    As the second edition of the Unified Economic Theory, this new model draws upon some ideas from the first UET, yet incorporates a number of new concepts and features that will allow for even greater conceptual coherence and gameplay feasibility. Thanks to all who posted and commented in the old UET thread. Your comments and suggestions were valuable and contributed to this new edition.

    I will be developing the UET II with periodic modifications and new sections, so please check back occasionally! And, as always, all comments are welcome and encouraged!

    Unified Economic Theory, Second Edition (UET II)

    I. Commodity Production

    A. Resource Production
    The base of the economy is the working of regular terrain tiles, which yields food and shields. Each citizen working a tile will consume 1 food for sustenance, and then send any surplus resources to the city center for consumption or export.

    B. Luxury Resources
    Some tiles may contain luxury resources, which, when obtained, will increase the happiness of those citizens that consume it. Each source yields a finite amount when worked, and these goods are then sent to the city center. At the city center, the luxuries may be exported to boost the city’s income, or consumed through certain structures. For example, Incense can boost happiness through its use at a local Temple. If the luxury is not used through a certain structure, then it is distributed to the local populace through a Marketplace.

    C. Strategic Resources
    Another type of resource that may be extracted from certain tiles is strategic resources, which are required in the production of certain units and structures. Each source yields a finite amount of the resource, which is sent to the city center for distribution or export. Special structures (“Workshops”) are prerequisites for certain units and improvements; these special structures will demand strategic resources and require them to be functional.

    D. Food Diversity
    There is no standard food; instead, there are variations produced by working particular terrain types. For example, Grassland tiles will produce food as Wheat; Ocean tiles, however, will produce Fish as food. Since both are food, both can be consumed to sustain citizens and promote growth. A city with a greater variety of food, however, will be happier than one with less variety. In addition, certain manufactured food products require certain types of food. Food prices will depend upon supply and demand situations for each type of food.

    E. Shield Diversity
    There is also no standard shield. Although all types of shields may be used for the production of units and structures, Workshops may become more efficient at using certain types of shields. These abilities are acquired through sustained usage of a certain type of resource or through upgrades. When a Workshop uses a shield “efficiently,” it counts as double in the accumulation of shields to produce units or structures. Workshops will particularly demand shield types that they specialize in. The price of each type of shield depends upon supply and demand situations for that type of shield.

    II. Trade and Markets

    A. Trade
    When surplus resources are sent to the city center, they are either consumed by the local population or exported for income. Generally, the local population will consume as much as it can of the resources it has produced, then export any surplus to nearby accessible cities that have unfulfilled demand. When other cities purchase this surplus, the city that sold the products earns income.

    B. Markets and Transportation
    When two cities are close enough to trade (this limit can be alleviated through rivers, roads, railroads, etc.), they are considered a market. The supply and demand situations in each market determine the price of the commodities for sale there. While early markets will only include a few cities, later markets can cover entire provinces and even entire civilizations. It is generally advantageous to develop larger markets, since the variety and supply of buyers and sellers increase. Since transportation determines the sizes of markets, building and improving the arteries of travel in a civ through construction and research can be very beneficial.

    III. Finance

    A. Taxation
    As trade occurs between cities, local populations generate and accumulate wealth. This wealth may be taxed by the central government through a number of taxes of various rates. While the income tax is the standard tax, there are also population, commodity, and trade taxes to provide additional revenue. Since actual sources of income are targeted in such taxes, robust trade is generally necessary for healthy tax revenues. Heavy taxation will reduce the ability of cities to make purchases, thus damaging the economy, and light taxation will reduce the ability of the central government to make purchases, possibly threatening the maintenance of infrastructure and troops. A balance, adjusting to changing circumstances, would work best.

    B. Tax Collection and Transportation
    Tax revenues take time to reach the capital city, and this time depends directly upon the transportation available. Although tax collectors will not be visible on the map, they will essentially be traveling from each city to the capital to deposit their revenues. This process is automatic, but will further encourage improvement of infrastructure, as well as discourage early overexpansion, before proper transportation technologies have been researched.

    C. Tax Collectors
    The central government may also convert citizens to Tax Collectors, which increase the speed at which tax revenues are collected and deposited at the capital city. An extra Tax Collector in addition to the local tax collectors will double tax travel time; two extra Tax Collectors will triple tax travel time, and so forth.

    D. Tax Collection and Provincial Capitals
    Establishing Provincial Capitals may ease tax collection because revenues may be deposited there instead, speeding the collection process. These funds are only usable within the province, however, as opposed to the central treasury that may be used anywhere in the civ. The only way to “transfer” these funds to the central treasury would be through a special provincial tax. Notice that the player fully controls the provincial treasuries as well as the central, so that may not be necessary.

    E. Negative City Accounts
    When a city owes tax revenue but has no funds to give, its balance will become negative to indicate that when funds do arrive, they are to be directed toward paying the taxes that the city still owes. With no tax revenues collected, tax collectors would not deposit anything in the provincial or central treasuries, in this situation. For example, a city owing 5 gold but without the funds to do so would have a balance of –5, and the tax collector would have nothing to deposit (since there was nothing to collect). There is no interest, no bonds have been issued—in other words, this “debt” is more of simply a “negative account”—and once the city receives funds, the tax collector will be sent out with the amount owed to restore the account to a positive state.

    IV. City Infrastructure

    A. Public City Improvements
    City Improvements may be constructed either by the central government or by the city itself. Should the construction be funded by the central government, the player may choose the rate at which it will be constructed, with a greater rate resulting in the project purchasing a greater number of shields per turn, and therefore costing more (but generally getting the project completed more quickly). Notice that a greater rate will not guarantee quicker construction, if all available shields have already been purchased. All public city improvements will draw their maintenance fees from the central treasury. The central government is free to sell or upgrade any such facilities, however.

    B. Private City Improvements
    Individual cities may choose to construct city improvements for themselves. In this case, the city will simply allocate any excess shields or excess funds it has to the project. The selected project will generally benefit commerce, education, or happiness, although the player may override and select a project for the city. Once completed, private improvements are maintained by the city, but may also be sold by the city in times of financial crisis, or upgraded when resources are available.

    C. Transferring City Improvements
    Control of city improvements may be transferred from the city to the central government or vice versa, according to the player’s directives. Although ownership primarily determines who is to pay the maintenance fee (improvements will benefit the city they are located in, regardless of ownership), it also determines who has the right to sell or upgrade improvements.

    V. Science

    A. Education and Scientific Progress
    The education level (or literacy rate) of the population will play a central role in scientific progress. For the sake of simplicity, the Civ method of having beakers accumulate to create a scientific advance will be used; the beakers will not be generated from trade, however, rather from the collective level of education in the civ, enhanced by facilities such as libraries, universities, and research labs.

    B. Trade and Scientific Progress
    Trading with another civ that knows of an advance being researched will contribute beakers toward the discovery of that particular advance. Trade with another civ that is more scientifically advanced in a category being researched would also contribute beakers toward the discovery of an advance in that particular category, although to a lesser degree than in the above situation with a specific advance.

    C. Research Facilities
    Although an uneducated citizen will still generate 1 beaker, a Library will increase the per person output of the city the Library is in by 1 beaker, and the other facilities will have the same effect on the beaker output per person. The maximum number of beakers a single citizen can contribute (under normal circumstances) is 4 beakers. Scientific wonders and special funding can change this number.

    D. Research Direction
    When harnessing the beakers of uneducated citizens, the research goal may only be set as a category, and a random available tech in that category will be researched. Beakers from a Library can be directed toward a specific goal, however, and a University can also receive research funding from the central government to speed scientific discovery. The most advanced facility, the Research Lab, allows Researcher specialists to be assigned to the facility to enhance the Research Lab’s effects.

    VI. Population Organization and Placement

    A. Basic Unit of Population – the Village
    The basic unit of population is one Settlement, which will be represented on the map as a cluster of houses taking up the space of one tile. These units are equivalent to the current citizen “heads” in Civ. However, each population point, initially, can only extract a total of three units of any resources from a tile. Each unit of population consumes one food for survival, and demands (although does not consume) one shield for purposes of calculating market demand. In addition, each Village has a “food box” of 5 food to fill before growing into two population units (spreading onto an adjacent square as another Village).

    B. Cities
    Although Villages may function separately, often they are absorbed into the cultural spheres of nearby City squares. A City square is any square that contains a City Improvement or Wonder. Primary differences between City and Village squares include the fact that City squares have City Improvements and therefore special advantages over less developed squares, and also that they generate their own culture (due to these improvements). A City is also on a higher level of organization than a Village, having its own administration, treasury, and cultural tag that affect units or products that originate from the City.

    C. Provinces
    Provinces are large tracts of land that are initially organized by the player, who selects the cities that are to belong in a Province. Provincial Capitals, however, function much like cities--they are the center of culture for that Province, and house the provincial administration and treasury. As a result, the designation of Provinces in the beginning is important, since later on any changes would be due mostly to cultural shifts, and while the player can manually change the provincial boundaries, culture would determine the ultimate result of such changes.

    D. National Capital
    The National Capital is generally the cultural center of a civ, and houses the central administration and treasury. Most functions relating to foreign civs will also generally be performed or accessed here.

    E. Population Density
    There is no hard limit to the number of population units that can occupy a single square, but squares will tend to house only one unit of population unless the square is being underutilized, or the population cannot find any empty land to settle.

    F. Coastal Villages
    If a population unit is using a water square, then the population itself will be housed on a coastal square closest to that water square being used. This is a special case of high population density that will be common even in the beginning of the game.

    G. Workers and Settlers
    Workers are special construction units that are essentially mobile Villages, except that they cannot grow. They still require food for survival and may indirectly contribute to the demand for shields in the area they are stationed, because terrain improvements do require shields for construction. Settlers, which use up only one population point each, are also comparable to mobile Villagers, except that they cannot grow and do not demand shields, requiring only food for survival. Their function is to found cities that are far away, and they are able to resist foreign cultures as well as the cities they originated from.

    Here is the rest of the summary.
     
  2. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    My question is a general one that we don't need to answer now. We can answer it later, at the end, or as we go along.

    The question is how much of this will be user controlled, and how much of this would be automatically calculated.

    I mean, it would be cool to be able to distribute your resources -- consume, export, stockpile. And we might be tempted to give the user control over this. In fact, we might give them the power to control it seperately for each resource! But before we get carried away, we might heed the reality of Civ 4's design and realize that Civ 4 cannot and will not be more complex than Civ 3.

    So the idea is to minimize the choice complexity, while still creating new strategies and cultivating stronger feelings of a living-breathing economy.
     
  3. ShadowWarrior

    ShadowWarrior Prince

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    I agree with Dh-epic. The ideas presented are very good, but intuitively to me, it seems like there will be a lot of micromanagement as a result of these features' implementation, especially in the harder levels, where computers probably are more capable than human players of calculating the optimal combination of various types of food/resources to generate the highest happiness level, to speed up productions...etc.


    Again though, the ideas are really good.
     
  4. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    I'm not really a fan of the diversity aspects of food, shield, and luxury production. This adds too much of a micro-economic factor, especially with the workshops. However, the trade idea is the start of how I am planning ot present markets. I am currently writing up a long, but complete explanation of a simplified system based on UET. It'll be ready in a few weeks. Just for when you read this, most of these transactions are done behind-the-scenes and really cannot be manipulated by players.

    Here is my take on markets.

    Connection is defined as this, connected to another city by road, river, harbour, or airport. Connections can be routed through several mediums and cities.
    A Market is all the cities that are connected. THere can be multiple markets, but usually from one of these factors. These factors can leave cities out of a market or seperate it.
    1) Cities whose civs are at war cannot share a market.
    2) Trad-embargoes leave civs out of markets.
    3) Transport mediums can be disrupted, such as if airspace around an airport is not safe, or a harbour is blockaded. This limits connections.

    Trading Food and SHields in a Market:
    Cities have optimal amounts of growth they want to experience. They will sell off extra food if they can.
    Cities also have a certain amount of industry they want. First, is enough industry to provide products to civilians. Second is the industry required for growth. Third is the industry required to keep the infrastructure maintained. Fourth is the industry required for major new projects and unit training. The only thing that actually uses shields is the main build, but the city will try to have the number that is made up of those four factors. They will try to sell extras and buy if under.
    Whenever a city sells food or shields to another city, that other city sells , the consumer city pays the vendor city one gold per unit of food/shield. Also, both cities get one trade arrow per unit of food/shield that was traded. If the city cannot afford to get what it needs, then you will get a pop-up asking if you want to subsidize the purchase of the necessary food/shields for twice the gold per food/sheild.
    Order of selling in markets. Cities will always trade within their civ, then whatever is left to foreign allies, then to foreign markets.
    Supply and demand works like this. If there is more supply then demand, then the city with the most surplus supply sells its food/shields for 1 gold per unit. This is continued until demand is more then supply. If there is more demand and supply, then the price per food/shield is raised to 2 gold per unit. If enough cities drop out because they do not have the money, then all the goods are sold at that price. This is repeated at each level of the market, so international trades tend to be me much more expesnive then domestic, encouraging export industries.

    Resource Trading:
    I do not like the idea of a finite and quantiifed resources. Here is the system that determines how much you earn, or pay, for resources. This system also ensures that no one can horde resources, but they can make them scarce and expensive.
    Here are some tenets of the system. It uses the connectivity rules discussed above. The amount of trade arrows generated per city is now equal to the amount of gold that shifted cities.

    Resource points. Your civs uses resources for more then improvements and unit construction. Some resources are fuels for domestic and military use. Oil especially will require a ton of RPs per city. EAch city and your military will have a different RP need for various strategic resources. For lxuruies, you need one RP per citizen and certain number based on improvements, for max effect.
    All trade of resources domestically is 1 gold per 'resource point' used. YOu might have to subsidize some of these purchases, but for the original prices.
    Here is how international trade works. There is a market-wide RP demand, that is determined by adding up all the RPs of the consumer cities(non-domestic in most cases, and citeis that have domestic source of resource). Then you divide that by the number of the resource avaliable. The number is then compared to a table that determines the gold per RP. If cities can pay, good, if they can't, they then have to suffer the consequences of not being able to provide. Normal price subsidies really come in handy here.
    Export control. If you own more then one of a resource, you can control prices by allowing more or less of them on the market. Sometimes you might have to lower prices to prevent a world-wide depression which might encourage aggressive action against the resource whore. It also makes early trading nations rich.
     
  5. EddyG17

    EddyG17 King

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    I Like point 7, It will give a reason to the player(human & AI) to build cities close together(invading each others work area) because it will provide a larger amount of income due that the cities are more than close enoughf or trade. This will benefit com civs, giving them more gold but less shiel production. OTOH ind. civs may want to not have their cities invading each others work area for maximun shield output, but this means that cities are too far apart from each other thus not allowing as much trade.
    The Human player(along with non ind or com civs) may want a moderate distance in between cities to not have too few gold or poor shield production.

    This Idea could also create true trade routes, since an invading civ mav want to destroy a road leading to a highly shield productive city from a oil rich city, thus halting the tank production.
    Taking care of this trade route may make us build forts along side them to protect them.
    A If a trade route passes trought a city(or next to it) the city will get some gold as result of it. How much gold could be calculated as percentage of the transaction taking place between the two original cities or empires. The same would hapen if a fort is build along the trade route, the fort would need to be x tile away form any city on the trade route and any other fort in those x tiles will not benefit from this, The gold generated goes directly to the treasury unlike the city where it goes to the city itself to pay for any maintenace cost.
     
  6. EddyG17

    EddyG17 King

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    Sea trade routes will be determine by the number of turns that takes the fastes ship from the civ in control of port-city A takes to another port-city B and substracted from the number of turns that it takes for the civ in control of port-city B to port-city A. This will simulate that in reality sea trading is prefered over land trading.
    Land-Sea trade routes then could be acomplished here.


    Now this hole thing will be thrown off if railroads are allowed to keep an infinite movement rate.
     
  7. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    I'd really like to see trade routes be a bit more of a combination between Civ 2 and Civ 3. Civ 3 automatically builds the traderoutes, which I like, but I like how in Civ 2, you know where the trade route is and they are possible to intercept and loot. I couldn't tell you how to do it.

    But don't let that stop me from trying :)

    When you establish trade between your civilization and a rival, it actually gives you a few options for trade routes based on the cities closest to one another. It calculates benefits based on proximity and speed of the trade route, and also calculates costs -- of the boat, for example. You pick the route that yields the best benefits for the lowest costs. Build multiple routes if you want.

    e.g.: it costs 20 gold to build a ship that will yield 12 gold per turn in trade per turn for both civilizations.

    After that, a ship-unit moves back and forth between the two cities automatically. You can give it extra defence by reinforcing it with an actual naval unit. And if you're an enemy, you CAN, in fact, attack and pillage the route, taking tons of money with it.

    To trade halfway around the world? Well, you can either manage a long trade route by yourself (expensive). Or you can split the cost and speed up the route by going "through" someone else. E.g.: Venezuela trades to Canada by going through the USA. This would allow USA to leverage its position in trading, and become more of an economic powerhouse.

    This UET stuff brings out the most rambling in me :)
     
  8. ybbor

    ybbor Will not change his avata

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    one question. one thing i see coming up in your points is that cities can have thier own treasury, how will that mater, because what one city buys from another, the same amount of money is in the government
     
  9. EddyG17

    EddyG17 King

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    The gold given to the city due to its position on the trade route will serve the city to pay of its immprovents, buy food/shields. The gold generated will only serve that city, making it powerful and important.
     
  10. EddyG17

    EddyG17 King

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    Were you talking about the trade routes or the UET II, ybbor?
     
  11. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    I think Ybbor is right. I don't think I like the idea of cities having their own treasury and seeing if they can afford certain items, etc. I like the direction you're heading, Peror, but I'd like to take it one step further. It seems that you're adding a hint of the game Pharaoh (or any similar type game), and I like that. Using that, I think this is where you could go:

    Assume that all citizens can afford and do purchase the necessities of life: food, clothing, shelter. Instead of deciding the demand of goods based on what the city can afford, merely have it based on the number and type of citizens comprising the city.

    Have three levels of citizens (and perhaps any number of specialist types): the Wealthy/Land-Owners/Aristocrats; the Middle-Class/Merchants/Trade-Smiths; and the Poor/Servants/Serfs.

    BTW, this is all taken care of AUTOMATICALLY by the game engine.

    What determines the wealth of your citizens?

    Simple: merely by what is available to them for commodities. Do they have access to only one type of food? Do they have access to dyed clothing? Do they have access to jewels? Do they have access to Cedar wood? You get the idea. Other factors would be infrastructure, security, and the type of facilities and entertainment available.

    This is where additional strategy could come from for deciding where to place a new city (if, indeed, the Settler model is kept). If a city starts near richer resources, wealthier citizens will be attracted to the city and emerge (some citizens are assumed to take advantage of business opportunities and thus become wealthy by trading to other cities/citizens).

    What player input is there?

    The building of roads to help establish trade routes. The building of religious structures, statues, and monuments to make the city more attractive. The building of civic structures to ensure peace and prosperity. The building of services to provide education and other desired “commodities”. Provide military protection from outside threats and building military structures that make citizens feel safe to conduct business and live in peace.

    How does the player/civ pay for all of this?

    The player no longer receives Gold simply as a direct output from the city based on the number of citizens and gold enhancing structures. The player, based on technology and government type, sets a tax rate. Taxing wealthier citizens provides more revenue than taxing poorer citizens. The player, therefore, has incentive to provide certain services and protection to his/her citizens to ensure the emergence of wealthier citizens. Government type can play a crucial role in all of this. Heavy handed versus feudal versus free-market. Each one would have its advantages and disadvantages and would only be available to the player as social “technology” progresses to allow these various developments.
     
  12. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    I want to expand upon the “varying” food concept because I think it is a very good idea and can provide a much deeper game experience without increasing complexity to the player. I’m not sure how varied you would want to make it, but you could split food into categories. Say, GRAINS, VEGETABLES, FRUIT, MEAT, and SEA FOOD. Icons on the map may now represent, not food bonuses, but the fertility of the soil/abundance of food. Natural meat supplies (fish, game, etc.) run out over time if citizens are using that tile for food (this would be most important in the very beginning stages of the game when farming and irrigation may not be known to your citizens yet). When the source runs out, it is replaced by a farm: Grain farm, Vegetable farm, Fruit orchard, or Animal farm. Coastal cities automatically have fishermen working sea tiles with Fish.

    The player does not choose the type of farm. The citizens start the farm that is best for that tile (Plains terrain might best produce Grain; Grasslands, vegetables; and the Tropics, Fruit), all determined internally by the game (and adjustable in the editor). Each tile (as it does now) has a base fertility for supply of food. Icons on the map could represent especially fertile areas for certain types of farms. Any farms produced on these tiles would provide an abundance of food. Animal farms could be produced on just about any tile and would produce a set amount of food based on technology. The game engine would automatically produce the best (produces the greatest amount of food) farm for that type of tile.

    (The "expensive" foods of fruit and meat could not be traded for great distances until the proper technology is reached. This would make city placement more important in the beginning. Later on in the game, desert cities like Phoenix could spring up because all necessary commodities can be brought in through trade.)

    No longer is there a worker job of “Irrigation”. Citizens automatically produce farms -- as it should be! This, of course, would be a reduction of micromanagement. (As a side note, mines would also automatically be produced. Citizens automatically take advantage of economic opportunities).

    So, the idea here is that citizens demand food and rich citizens demand a variety of food. Grains could be the cheapest type of food and supply all citizens. Vegetables and fish would be slightly higher and would allow for the transformation of Poor citizens into Middle Class citizens (based on other factors as well). Fruit and Meat would be the final level of food. It would provide more trade income than the first two (if excess is traded to other cities) and would allow the existence of the Wealthy citizens (based on other factors as well).

    Technological advances automatically allow farms to produce more food. This would free up farm producing tiles for more productive ventures. In Civ4, you might now see tiles have “mini-cities” that produce x amount of shields because of local tool and dies, manufacturies, etc! Of course, the actual center, city tile begins to produce more and more shields as technology progresses. Industries/Factories automatically spring up to take advantage of new technology and supply of resources. The only way the Player builds these types of things is if his/her government is a command economy.

    I LOVE this idea! It makes trade so much more important and gives a deep aspect to the “maintenance” of your citizens. You, as the player, ensure the establishment and security of trade routes so that your citizens have access to the greatest amount and variety of commodities. You provide the infrastructure for the safety and security of your citizens. You provide services for your citizens. And you provide educational and state-run entertainment for your citizens. All of it in order to care and coddle your citizens so that you may gain the max amount of tax income from the rich.

    You could never have all rich citizens. The poor to middle-class would work on the farms, mines, and manufacturies. Each type of citizen would have its advantages/disadvantages and could be used for different things. Perhaps only poor to middle class citizens could be used for police officers. Perhaps a strong nobility could be extremely useful in a Feudal government and provide the best military for that era. Perhaps the poor make great military recruits. The possibilities are quite enormous and fun!

    I think all of this would provide a much richer Civilization gaming experience.
     
  13. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    Working Tiles and Shield Production

    I think it can be fun and is important that players still choose which tiles citizens work. What determines what is produced on that tile? At first I thought it should be automatic, but then I began to realize that this would take too much control away from players, many of whom cherish the ability to tweak things just so.

    My thought is that (based on technology), the player clicks on a tile for a citizen to work. Each time he/she clicks, the different possibilities are presented. Will it be farmed? Will it be mined? Each click shows you the food/shield result.

    I’m trying to think about the production of shields and how that can relate to the game in the way that food variety could. I think it would be interesting to not have shield production directly dependant on the base resources of a tile and whether or not it is mined. It would be more interesting to see that because there is a supply of lumber, iron, copper, stone, etc. that artisans spring up in your city who produce x number of shields based on technology and the type of commodity supplied. In this way a locally resource poor city could be a big producer if it merely has an influx of the necessary resources.

    Resource tiles (like Iron, Limestone, etc.) would automatically be mined if worked (that’s how the resource is obtained!). The amount of shields produced in that city would be determined by technology and the number of artisans/middle-class workers you have in that city. As industrialization takes place, even poor citizens contribute to a total increase in shields(instead of farms-food) (they work in the factories!).

    These are all just random thoughts and would need some fleshing out.
     
  14. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    Exactly, but trade also generates 'trade arrows'(or whatever they are called in Civ 3, i just forget). This way internal trade between the food and production rich cities helps civ. Also, the amount of gold left after trading could be fed into a 'civilian wealth' model that could easily be used for seperatism and regionalism models. The point is that even internal trade costs money, and makes one city richer then the others. This will also feed into my full 'simplified UET model' based on trade that I will eventually finish writing, which includes an extensive section on population migration, of which wealth would be a factor.

    Actualy, after reading Colonel Kraken's ideas, I now feel like introducing a possible migration model. If you feed the Colonel's food ideas into the desirability model(as you will see), it coudl make for really interesting planning.

    Here is it

    First I will discuss the population migration model:

    *Concept) Cities will naturally have a limit to which they want to grow. This limit is based on technology, infrastructure, and the local economy. Whenever this limit is passed, citizens will attempt to migrate to a city that fits their needs. For migration purposes, nation pride weighs in heavily whether a citizen emigrates or migrates. If no city is found, they will make the difficult decision to form a new city(i.e. a settler).

    *Technology Population Limit) As technology progresses, cities can support more people and products comfortably. Such technologies as Construction, Engineering, Sanitation, Steam Power, Motorized Transport, etc., will increase this basic support limit. I'm not going to list what this number is after each advance, but it shoudl probably start at 1 or 2.

    *Facility Population Limit) The presence of certain facilities in a city adds to the amount of people it can support, the quantity of jobs it creates, and the overall desirability. Example of the second and third would be Cathedrals and Temples, which create an economy based off of increased religion(Roman city of Corinth is a historical example). Example of the first would be Aqueducts and Hospitals.

    *Citizen Needs) Citizens in a city have certain basic needs. These numbers are just suggestions for right now. All citizens need food, so two is the default minimum. All citizens need shields to represent production of goods for consumption. The amount of shields needed would increase over time. These shields are still used for production, but must exist in sufficient quantity to satisfy citizen demand. Example: There is five citizens in a city, who each need one shield of production. The city produces ten shields a turn. Ten shields will go into the current construction project. However, if the city only produced four shields, one citizen would not have their basic product need met.

    *City Desireability) All cities have a different level of desireability. Food of course is a give, the more extra food, the more desireable. Production is another, since the more production per citizen, the greater amount of products they will have. Commerce per citizen represents trade and income potential. Luxuries and facilities also factor in. If a luxury is local, it is valued even greater because of its cheapness. Facilities add in desirability points. Each city then calculates its desire ratings. The process to rank cities with the same desire rating is currently unknown to me, but it should involve culture and proximity to cultural sites.
    New Edit: Greater product and food variety would really be important to add to desirabiliyt. Also, gold per capita would be important, making export cities very valuable.
    *Migration) Citizens will try and migrate under certain conditions. First, they are unhappy and over the optimal population limit. Second, their basic needs are not being met. Third, another city has twice the desire rating of the city they are in and is not at or over the population limit. Whenever they do migrate, they will try to migrate to the best city they are connected too. Since multiple citizens will want to move to the best cities, the pecking order is domestic worst city, domestic cities, international worst city, international cities.

    *Immigration/Emigration Policy) You would have some control of citizens going in and leaving your borders. You can set quotas on immigration from specific civilizations and limits on emigration. Of cours your immigration/emigraiton policy may make you unpopular with other civs.

    *City Growth Policy) You would have some control of whether cities would try to do with growth. You could tell cities to Encourage Growth, Encourage Migration, or Encourage Stability.

    *New Information) Each turn you would get a summary of the total amount of domestic and international migration. You would also get a summary of growth in your cities, so you could change policy whenever you needed to.

    *Edit in - Urbanization) Toward the beginning of the Industrial Era, small cities will start to drain more into large cities with market connections.

    *Edit in - Suburbanization) Toward the end of the Inudstiral Era, the wealthier elements of a wealthy city will go to suburbs. These are like cities, in that they are captured seperately from the main city and experience disorder seperate form the main city. They are special in that they are max size three, and only keep the food they produce, for shield and gold they pool with the cities resources and act like they are part of the city. They will still collect the majority of the gold as the wealthy sector. Modern cities will be limited to a certain size in the urban center, but can have suburbs anywhere in their cultural borders, but must be adjacent ot hte city or the cities suburb. Also, Metropolises in the suburban stages can work any tile in the cultural borders of the city.
     
  15. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    For what it's worth, I think the extra food supplies could be accomplished as luxuries.

    Most civilizations are based around some kind of grain. Rice in the east, wheat in the west, and corn in the new world, just to name a few.

    Everything beyond that is gravy. That is, everything beyond that is a luxury.

    Certain kinds of meats are a luxury.
    Certain kinds of fish, fruits, even vegetables are a luxury.

    You could actually simulate the effects pretty well in Civ 3. Make said tiles provide extra food, as well as providing a luxury. If you expand culture and trade in Civ 4, you can make "Japanese Fish" and "Brazillian Fruit" have specific cultural value, to the extent that people in America are demanding said wonderful luxuries!
     
  16. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    Yup. That could work too. :D
     
  17. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    Culture could be another thing gained in trading. Everytime a Luxury product of Civ A is sold to city in Civ B, the city in Civ A earns a Culture points. Major trading cities would blossom early on.

    Also, in Civ now a city remember how many culture points of each civ it has for flipping reasons. Civ A could also put a unit of culture of Civ A in the Civ B's city. Trading cultures that invade other cultures would inherit partially familiar cities, rather then completely hostile and alien cities.
     
  18. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    Intriguing idea. Oooh, I'm loving the game depth being discussed!

    Firaxis, you watchin'? :mischief:
     
  19. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    Oh hell yes. I think trade and culture are hugely related. Once your products become world reknown, people get up and demand it: Columbus in search of Indian spices and Chinese silks, or American kids frothing at the mouth for Japanese Video Games.

    There's one strategy to breaking down a foreign nation with embargoes, bans, and tarriffs. But the other strategy to bring down a foreign nation is to bring your culture to their doorstep -- adidas, pokemon, MTV, SUVs, it don't matter. Hegemony in the house, playa!
     
  20. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    [QUOTE='Californication' - Red Hot Chilli Peppers]Psychic spies from China
    Try to steal your mind's elation
    Little girls from Sweden
    Dream of silver screen quotations
    And if you want these kind of dreams
    It's Californication

    It's the edge of the world
    And all of western civilization
    The sun may rise in the East
    At least it settles in the final location
    It's understood that Hollywood
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    Marry me girl be my fairy to the world
    Be my very own constellation
    A teenage bride with a baby inside
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    It's Californication

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    But it's made in a Hollywood basement
    Cobain can you hear the spheres
    Singing songs off station to station
    And Alderaan's not far away
    It's Californication

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    Control of population everybody's been there and
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    Dream of Californication
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    Destruction leads to a very rough road
    But it also breeds creation
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    They're just another good vibration
    And tidal waves couldn't save the world
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    Pay your surgeon very well
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    [/QUOTE]

    Is this the new anthem of this idea or what?
     

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