The USA Might Be Going Down

[aelf]

It's been several weeks. Trump is still standing strong. He's been able to force through all his cabinet picks and most of his policies except the travel ban, which seems to be enforced in some places anyway.

The number of people interested in traveling to the US seems to be dropping. How is the rest of your economy doing?

In the meantime, the alt-right and pseudo-Nazis are becoming emboldened and more influential, while moderates and concern trolls are insisting that alt-right ideologues be ignored or given the space to propagate their views. Also, their rise has been blamed on the left, so no one is really able to oppose them.

Did I miss anything? How far do you think this road to destruction will lead? Will the USA survive? How many years will it take to recover?

 

[timtofly]

It will be short, if the rest of the world does nothing. Competition tends to drag things out for longer periods of time.

You think this will be as drastic as Nazi Germany or Lenin's Russia?

What if the Global economy starts to thrive? Seems like (to you) that would be a bummer.

 

[onejayhawk]

Let's put this in a time capsule and open it in fifty years. It will be good for a laugh.

J

 

[rah]

While I don't agree with almost all of things that he's trying to accomplish, the market has hit record highs which kind of refutes that the US is going to hell in a handbasket.

Granted, it's not the best and only measure, but it does show that a lot of people think things aren't as bad as you're attempting to portray.

A lot of people used the increase in the market as proof of how great Obama was for the US.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

While I don't agree with almost all of things that he's trying to accomplish, the market has hit record highs which kind of refutes that the US is going to hell in a handbasket.

Granted, it's not the best and only measure, but it does show that a lot of people think things aren't as bad as you're attempting to portray.

A lot of people used the increase in the market as proof of how great Obama was for the US.

The market ? The stock market ? Doesn't really mean much for people who have to actually work themselves for a living. In fact, it could be seen as a negative as it indicates that the shareholder class will be able to extract even more wealth from the real economy.
And yes, I would say the same thing if Clinton was president.

 

[EnglishEdward]

How far do you think this road to destruction will lead? Will the USA survive? How many years will it take to recover?

I do not think that the USA will break up, like the British Empire, the Austro-Hungarian empire, the USSR or European Union.


OPTIMISTIC ANSWER

The key risks are in foreign affairs. I suspect that other world leaders will adopt a policy of we hear what you say, but that is not
our view, and we are simply going to ignore it unless it is made very clear that the house of congress and the senate back you up.

When Donald Trump realises that the houses won't support him, he will probably go into some form of sulk and tirade.

Once he realises that he is taken as seriously as the leader of North Korea, he will probably have a nervous breakdown.

I suspect that there will be a couple of years of chaos before Mike Pence effectively takes over from Donald Trump.

Mike Pence will likely adopt a minimalist policy towards the federal government and reach an understanding with Paul Ryan
such that politics may move in the directions advocated by Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders. I.e. less federal bail outs of the greedy.

This might even enable the individual state governments, in the United State, to bloom.


PESSIMISTIC ANSWER

He blunders into a war with China who receive political support from Mexico and Russia
while the rest of the world quietly adopts a traditional Sweden and Swiss like neutrality stance.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It's been several weeks. Trump is still standing strong. He's been able to force through all his cabinet picks and most of his policies except the travel ban, which seems to be enforced in some places anyway.

The number of people interested in traveling to the US seems to be dropping. How is the rest of your economy doing?

In the meantime, the alt-right and pseudo-Nazis are becoming emboldened and more influential, while moderates and concern trolls are insisting that alt-right ideologues be ignored or given the space to propagate their views. Also, their rise has been blamed on the left, so no one is really able to oppose them.

Did I miss anything? How far do you think this road to destruction will lead? Will the USA survive? How many years will it take to recover?

Going by what I see in the comment sections of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC)'s website, there are quite a lot of Canadians who have rethought their vacation plans. Some have opted to go to Europe instead, or Australia and New Zealand. Still more have decided to stay in Canada (after all, this is our 150th birthday and all national parks have free admission this year; otherwise it's pricey to visit them). And of course the travel ban made Muslim Canadians rethink their plans, since they have no idea if it's safe to travel to the U.S. now - they might be stranded on the opposite side of the border where they want to be.

As for me, I haven't been to the U.S. since September of 1987. Other than a "it would be interesting to attend a filking convention some day" or an SCA war (neither of which I ended up doing), I've had no interest in crossing the border. I especially have no interest in it now, as anyone who wants to make something up about my political views can easily figure out which side of the political spectrum I'm on. It's not unusual now for Canadians crossing the border to be asked their opinions of Trump, and I'm not that good a liar.

 

[BvBPL]

It’s going down. I’m yelling ‘timber.’

If you are in the US, you better move. You better dance.

People need to recognize that the “Give Me Everything” philosophy is unsustainable. It puts the roof on fire. We can’t keep it up. “Global Warming,” we are told, is going to ramp up like next month. We need to get international love.

Look to our leaders. We need someone with a global perspective, but someone who is ready to fight for America like a dog fights for a bone. And a sharp dresser. I’m talking about a guy who’s Mr. Worldwide, but also a fierce Pitbull.

 

[rah]

The market ? The stock market ? Doesn't really mean much for people who have to actually work themselves for a living.

Quite a few people that actually work themselves for a living contribute to 401k plans. Most of those plans are doing quite well during this market run. So there are quite a few people that would say that it means something.

 

[galdre]

Getting people to put their retirement into corporate stocks is one of the largest scams of modern time.

 

[rah]

A scam insinuates that it isn't effective.
Simply investing in index funds has been a guaranteed winner over the long haul.

 

[CivCube]

I think this thread is in an alternate reality. I have not heard anyone sniffing give 'em a chance, kids since election day. Even David Brooks is outraged.

 

[civvver]

Going by what I see in the comment sections of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC)'s website, there are quite a lot of Canadians who have rethought their vacation plans. Some have opted to go to Europe instead, or Australia and New Zealand. Still more have decided to stay in Canada (after all, this is our 150th birthday and all national parks have free admission this year; otherwise it's pricey to visit them). And of course the travel ban made Muslim Canadians rethink their plans, since they have no idea if it's safe to travel to the U.S. now - they might be stranded on the opposite side of the border where they want to be.

As for me, I haven't been to the U.S. since September of 1987. Other than a "it would be interesting to attend a filking convention some day" or an SCA war (neither of which I ended up doing), I've had no interest in crossing the border. I especially have no interest in it now, as anyone who wants to make something up about my political views can easily figure out which side of the political spectrum I'm on. It's not unusual now for Canadians crossing the border to be asked their opinions of Trump, and I'm not that good a liar.

Could the price of the euro have anything to do with it? CAD vs euro is almost the same as vs USD. My parents are in southern Italy right now and couldn't believe how cheap accommodations are. Maybe it's off season.

Getting people to put their retirement into corporate stocks is one of the largest scams of modern time.

The market works well when more people participate and it's not extremely volatile meaning they don't put money in one month and pull it out the next. 401ks don't do that. They strengthen the market and in turn their value goes up. How is that a scam?

 

[galdre]

The market works well when more people participate and it's not extremely volatile meaning they don't put money in one month and pull it out the next. 401ks don't do that. They strengthen the market and in turn their value goes up. How is that a scam?

The average worker is getting screwed by the people who are benefiting from growing corporate wealth. But if the average worker depends on overall corporate wealth going up for what little they have for retirement, they are not going to be much of a challenge because they can't risk even a short-term decrease in that wealth.

 

[rah]

You still haven't explained why they're getting "screwed".
Making a better return then most other investments hardly qualifies as getting "screwed"
Putting the money in a regular savings account and making 1% is getting screwed.

 

[galdre]

You still haven't explained why they're getting "screwed".
Making a better return then most other investments hardly qualifies as getting "screwed"
Putting the money in a regular savings account and making 1% is getting screwed.

Yes, great return... until the next recession.

This is about tying the wealth of the masses to the welfare of corporations... at the same time those benefiting most from corporate wealth are reducing the wealth and rights of the masses.

 

[Bamspeedy]

A short term decrease now means nothing if I'm not cashing out my 401k until 30 years from now. How will the stock market perform over the course of 30 years?

The very idea that the "very wealthy" own most of the market is absurd if you think a moment; why would the market have ANY volatility if it was only being moved by a few very wealthy investors? Why would they keep selling stocks back and forth between each other?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Could the price of the euro have anything to do with it? CAD vs euro is almost the same as vs USD. My parents are in southern Italy right now and couldn't believe how cheap accommodations are. Maybe it's off season.

That could be the reason for some people, but the exchange rate is by no means in Canada's favor in either case. Not one of the commenters on CBC.ca mentioned the euro as a reason to visit Europe instead of the U.S. They did, however, mention that they had no intention of crossing the border into the U.S. as long as Trump is president.

There's also a boycott being organized of the Hudson's Bay Company stores here. The Bay used to be Canadian-owned, is now American-owned, and some people are trying to get it to drop Ivanka Trump's "fashions" and "jewelry." This "baycott" (as it's referred to on Twitter) has sparked quite a controversy on the CBC comment boards. Oddly enough, it's mostly men who are wailing that Ivanka is being "punished" for the deeds of her father (but he's really a great guy), and aren't all women supposed to stand up for all other women?

I've been boycotting the Bay for decades, for other reasons. And Ivanka Trump's tacky-looking crap is certainly not made in the U.S. What a family of hypocrites.

 

[rah]

Yes, great return... until the next recession.

This is about tying the wealth of the masses to the welfare of corporations... at the same time those benefiting most from corporate wealth are reducing the wealth and rights of the masses.

Still a fail.
I've "averaged" an approximate 7% return over the last 35 years. If that's your definition of a sucker, we should all be one.
I am not the top 1%, I'm one of the masses. But far better off for participating in this "SCAM"

 

[galdre]

Still a fail.
I've "averaged" an approximate 7% return over the last 35 years. If that's your definition of a sucker, we should all be one.
I am not the top 1%, I'm one of the masses. But far better off for participating in this "SCAM"

You need to look at overall return from labor for the average person today compared to 40-50 years ago. You aren't winning, sorry.