The Value of Choice/Freedom

[Defiant47]

Let us consider two scenarios. I shall phrase them to be as general as possible.

Scenario A:

You have little to no choice in most matters. However, you experience a higher quality of life along with everyone else. You are very happy and enjoy life.

Scenario B:

You have many choices available to you, some better than others. However, the best choice and the best possible outcome is notably worse than in Scenario A. So, at best, you're still enjoying a notably lower quality of life compared to Scenario A, and have notably less happiness or enjoyment in life. (the word "notably" was used as a balance between "slightly" and "significantly")

Would you prefer to be in Scenario A or Scenario B? Take the question as it is, without foreseeing Scenario A to eventually becomes worse than Scenario B, or Scenario B becoming better than Scenario A; or vice-versa... otherwise the whole question would be moot and pointless.

 

[kulade]

Depends; in scenario A do I have the illusion that I am free?

 

[Defiant47]

Depends; in scenario A do I have the illusion that I am free?

I considered that issue, but I figured that your propensity to oppose the freedom revoked in Scenario A would be directly dependent on your answer to this question.

For all intents and purposes, take it at face value as you are simply happier in Scenario A than Scenario B. Let's say, with or without the illusion if it's still an important matter for you.

 

[scy12]

I considered that issue, but I figured that your propensity to oppose the freedom revoked in Scenario A would be directly dependent on your answer to this question.

For all intents and purposes, take it at face value as you are simply happier in Scenario A than Scenario B. Let's say, with or without the illusion if it's still an important matter for you.

In Scenario A have i been in Scenario B before i reached Scenario A or am i in Scenario A due to some Magic ? In the first case Scenario A because i made the choices before that reached me in Scenario A where i was happy.

 

[JohnRM]

Let us consider two scenarios. I shall phrase them to be as general as possible.

Scenario A:

You have little to no choice in most matters. However, you experience a higher quality of life along with everyone else. You are very happy and enjoy life.

Scenario B:

You have many choices available to you, some better than others. However, the best choice and the best possible outcome is notably worse than in Scenario A. So, at best, you're still enjoying a notably lower quality of life compared to Scenario A, and have notably less happiness or enjoyment in life. (the word "notably" was used as a balance between "slightly" and "significantly")

Would you prefer to be in Scenario A or Scenario B? Take the question as it is, without foreseeing Scenario A to eventually becomes worse than Scenario B, or Scenario B becoming better than Scenario A; or vice-versa... otherwise the whole question would be moot and pointless.

Due to the fact that I believe that it is impossible to be happy in Scenario A, I am going with Scenario B.

 

[El Koeno]

I should have gone with unsure, as I don't really know what it feels like to be unfree. But then again, I have been taught that it's quite nice to be able to choose how miserable your life is. I must say that the moments in my life in which I was the freeest (like while travelling) were the best. So from that I guess that B would be the best. But I guess happiness also depends on your frame of reference. If everyone around you is unfree and happy, that might be normal and acceptable.

 

[Phlegmak]

Would you prefer to be in Scenario A or Scenario B? Take the question as it is, without foreseeing Scenario A to eventually becomes worse than Scenario B, or Scenario B becoming better than Scenario A; or vice-versa... otherwise the whole question would be moot and pointless.

I voted, even though the whole thing is moot and pointless. The limitations you put make it moot and pointless. In real life, a bad situation + freedom = possibility for a better situation.

 

[El Koeno]

I voted, even though the whole thing is moot and pointless. The limitations you put make it moot and pointless. In real life, a bad situation + freedom = possibility for a better situation.

Every hypothetical question posed here is moot and pointless.

 

[scy12]

I still haven't voted. You can't prefer to be in either situation A , B or C if you don't know how you reached that situation. If Defiant doesn't answer to that i will just vote unsure.

 

[Defiant47]

In Scenario A have i been in Scenario B before i reached Scenario A or am i in Scenario A due to some Magic ? In the first case Scenario A because i made the choices before that reached me in Scenario A where i was happy.

Suppose you could place yourself in either situation right now, and let's say yes by magic. Now you decide that you snap your fingers and you're instantly in that scenario.

Due to the fact that I believe that it is impossible to be happy in Scenario A, I am going with Scenario B.

Unfortunately, that answers a different question. One where Scenario A does not yield greater happiness, which doesn't apply to my question.

I voted, even though the whole thing is moot and pointless. The limitations you put make it moot and pointless. In real life, a bad situation + freedom = possibility for a better situation.

In real life, a good situation + no freedom = possibility for the good situation to continue. I don't see much of a difference.

 

[Narz]

Scenario A.

When use is it being able to choose what tennis shoe I want to wear if I'm notably less happy?

 

[Shaihulud]

I see the situation A as inheriting a huge amount of wealth, following my heart in studying what I want and dating the woman I please. I have learnt that doing so leads to my happiness.

Situation B is an idecisive person going through life. he weighs and ponders decisions. maybe he is an intellect or likes suffering. In the end through good decision, he makes the correct choices, but since he doesn't inherit the money, he is worse off, or he marries for wealth and becomes an accountant.

 

[aronnax]

It seems like im living option A

 

[scy12]

Suppose you could place yourself in either situation right now, and let's say yes by magic. Now you decide that you snap your fingers and you're instantly in that scenario.



Unfortunately, that answers a different question. One where Scenario A does not yield greater happiness, which doesn't apply to my question.



In real life, a good situation + no freedom = possibility for the good situation to continue. I don't see much of a difference.

Being in Scenario while not knowing how you got there wouldn't make it something compared with any event we have ever lived. As you state your question , what you would prefer between scenario A and scenario B you also give us the answer ,

ably lower quality of life compared to Scenario A, and have notably less happiness or enjoyment in life

.

So you ask where would you prefer to be Scenario A or Scenario B , and then you answer by saying you(we) would prefer Scenario A. So there should be only one choice on the poll.

 

[Phlegmak]

In real life, a good situation + no freedom = possibility for the good situation to continue. I don't see much of a difference.

In real life, a good situation + no freedom = no possibility to change one's own situation when the outside good situation goes bad.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

Drawing a logical conclusion from this hypothetical I have to go with scenario A. While I would be deprived of all FUTURE choices, I am being given the opportunity to choose now. Thus no freedom is eliminated. Metaphorically I'm merely buying an extravagant house, the payments for which will eat up all my excess income forever, but in the meantime I get to live in the awesome house.

 

[Berzerker]

If you have B, you have A

How does B exclude A's benefits while increasing options over A? Does B leave me free to leave B? Dont know, not enough info.

 

[Defiant47]

Being in Scenario while not knowing how you got there wouldn't make it something compared with any event we have ever lived. As you state your question , what you would prefer between scenario A and scenario B you also give us the answer , .

So you ask where would you prefer to be Scenario A or Scenario B , and then you answer by saying you(we) would prefer Scenario A. So there should be only one choice on the poll.

On the contrary, you will notice many people prefer Scenario B simply to have a "choice". Some people are willing to give up a lot of happiness and joy just to have some freedoms.

In real life, a good situation + no freedom = no possibility to change one's own situation when the outside good situation goes bad.

You have an uprising if the good situation goes bad.

If you have B, you have A

How does B exclude A's benefits while increasing options over A? Does B leave me free to leave B? Dont know, not enough info.

You decide now which scenario you are in. You can't switch around at will. Imagine the scenarios are actually countries and both have strict anti-immigration policies: i.e. even if your own country would allow you to leave, the other country wouldn't accept you in.

 

[scy12]

On the contrary, you will notice many people prefer Scenario B simply to have a "choice". Some people are willing to give up a lot of happiness and joy just to have some freedoms.



You have an uprising if the good situation goes bad.



You decide now which scenario you are in. You can't switch around at will. Imagine the scenarios are actually countries and both have strict anti-immigration policies: i.e. even if your own country would allow you to leave, the other country wouldn't accept you in.

On the contrary, you will notice many people prefer Scenario B simply to have a "choice". Some people are willing to give up a lot of happiness and joy just to have some freedoms.



You have an uprising if the good situation goes bad.

The illusion of free will. If you are magically placed at scenario A you will never prefer scenario B instead. If you are at scenario B then one might or might not prefer Scenario A. There is always a possibility of an illusion of free will.


So scenario A does not exist.

I find all these magic staff , appalling. So....

Unless someone changes the way your brain thinks by opening it and not allowing it to have any choice.

Therefor Scenario A would be a dumbing down of your humanity and brain capabilities or it doesn't exist.

You decide now which scenario you are in. You can't switch around at will. Imagine the scenarios are actually countries and both have strict anti-immigration policies: i.e. even if your own country would allow you to leave, the other country wouldn't accept you in.

A doctor asks you , do you want to take part in an experiment ? If you say yes then scenario A , is about to happen . If you say no , you leave.

There is no reason one may not reach the happiness of Scenario A from scenario B.

 

[Defiant47]

The illusion of free will. If you are magically placed at scenario A you will never prefer scenario B instead. If you are at scenario B then one might or might not prefer Scenario A. There is always a possibility of an illusion of free will.


So scenario A does not exist.

I find all these magic staff , appalling. So....

Unless someone changes the way your brain thinks by opening it and not allowing it to have any choice.

Therefor Scenario A would be a dumbing down of your humanity and brain capabilities or it doesn't exist.

There is no illusion of free will. There is you and your observations as you are right now. I'm guessing that if you'd be willing to accept Scenario A at this moment only on the condition of the illusion of free will, then you should also accept it without this illusion.

And let's not get into abstract definitions of choice.

A doctor asks you , do you want to take part in an experiment ? If you say yes then scenario A , is about to happen . If you say no , you leave.

No, you are a new inhabiter in a world ruled by two countries, depicted by the above scenarios. Which country would you like to join?

There is no reason one may not reach the happiness of Scenario A from scenario B.

Other than what's being postulated by the question. (Likewise, there is no reason one may start lacking the need of the freedom of Scenario B... such that its loss is no longer a greater loss than the loss of an equal amount of happiness)