The West's Cultural Narcissism: An Examination of Tolkien's Orcs

[Crezth]

As I ponder the discourse surrounding the socio-political dynamics in Eurasia, particularly the West's perspective on the state of affairs in Russia, a worrying trend emerges. It appears that the West, especially in their media narratives, tends to fixate on certain motifs and stereotypes rather than delve into the complexities of real-world material conditions.

For instance, rarely do we hear about the intricacies of property ownership or the ethics of grain subsidies in these regions. Instead, we are bombarded with narratives of a 'sick' Russia, led by the 'dictator' Putin, with Russian identity being reduced to war and plunder.

This phenomenon bears a striking resemblance to a well-known fantasy archetype - the fight against monstrous creatures from the 'uncivilized' parts of the world. And to illustrate this, I bring up J.R.R. Tolkien's masterpiece, The Lord of the Rings.

Tolkien, in his epic tale, describes Orcs as "mustering," with "wild peoples" arming themselves in the east and south. And he also wrote that the orcs were “squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types” in his Letter #210. What a thriller!

Sauron, the chief antagonist of Tolkien's narrative, can be seen as an archetypal figure representing the 'other', the foreign threat, the great leader of these Eastern and Southern 'wild peoples'. This interpretation aligns with the prevailing Western narratives of non-Western leaders, particularly those from Eurasia. Sauron is depicted as a malevolent force, unifying diverse factions into a menacing, unified threat against the 'civilized' West, much like the way non-Western leaders are often portrayed. It's no small coincidence that Sauron hails from the East, further reinforcing this Orientalist trope. Just as Sauron rallies the 'uncivilized' Orcs and other 'wild peoples', so too do Western narratives often portray Eurasian leaders as rallying their nations for conflict and war, while ignoring the complexities and diversities within these nations. Tolkien's portrayal of the Orcs as 'degraded and repulsive versions' of what Europeans consider 'least lovely Mongol-types' is a manifestation of the same mindset. It echoes a pattern of dehumanization and othering that is pervasive in Western attitudes towards the 'East' or the 'South'.

Now, ask yourself, in this narrative, who does Sauron - the one marshaling these forces - represent? Is he a stand-in for an Elder of Zion, commanding the forces of the south and east against the West? Does this not echo the ways in which the West perceives and talks about political disputes in Eurasia? Does it not suggest a deep current of anti-semitic paranoia that underwrites the proud legionary retainer class of the Western bourgeoisie? The answer is yes.

Such narratives can be both insidious and harmful, as they reduce complex societies and cultures to mere caricatures or villains, thereby justifying conflict, domination, and the denial of agency to those being characterized in this manner. It's a troubling legacy that we need to actively challenge and dismantle in our understanding of global politics and relations. Let's use this opportunity to challenge and critique the Western narrative, and strive to see beyond the fantasy world it propagates. Let's recognize the diversity of human experience, the complexity of socio-political landscapes, and the need for a wizened, nuanced understanding of global affairs, to make Gandalf proud, if Gandalf didn't hate Black people.

 

[r16]

an unfortunate thread , in case anyone asks for my opinion . Europe , at least the Eastern parts has decided to be "White" , their wish has been granted , it is sure to be a bloodbath and will reasonably run through another Christmas and it is a different CFC from the one you might be remembering , the joining date and all .

 

[Crezth]

There are good things in this world and r16's posts are one of them.

 

[Evie]

The orcs, like most things in Tolkien, reflect the world perception of *medieval* Europe, specifically of "legendary" Europe. That does involve viewing East and South as sources of monolithic invading forces (cf the Huns in Nordic legends for the East, and the Moors in Matters of France/Britain legends for the South, also Carthage and Rome). Which does, of course, comes with racially loaded perceptions, but is not a political statement about contemporary times.

Mind you, Journey to the West likewise show the land beyond China's borders as essentially full of demons, and I'm sure a look at other legends of other people would have similar bend, where the world outside "our" (whoever "us" is) borders is deadly, barbaric and uncivilized.

Humans may be diverse, but some things are too good not to share and the dragons beyond the edge of the map are one of them.

 

[Crezth]

Oh I'm sure Tolkien didn't intend to comment on contemporary politics, but comment he did and we can use that commentary to understand the mindset of he who extolls the virtues of "western civilization."

 

[Ajidica]

It's no small coincidence that Sauron hails from the East, further reinforcing this Orientalist trope.

Try again?
Sauron, as one of the maiar, hails either from Valinor in the Uttermost West, or outside the world alltogether.
It was the elves and mankind who came from the east, with the elves awaking far in the east near the waters of Cuivienen.

 

[Evie]

Hmmm, Sauron's origins may be in the west, but he spends most of his time dwelling in the East, and making it his stronghold, so I'd have to give Crzeth that particular point.

As I noted, pretty much anything reflecting medieval or early legends of a given people are going to extoll the virtues of that particular people and contrast it with the uncivilization of the wilderness beyond the map. Tolkien actually caught on to that later in life and his later worldbuilding, unpublished stories and notes refer to angelic messengers also traveling to the East land to (very successfully) bolster resistance to Sauron in that region. But as those writings were never published except in posthumous collections of draft and notes, they only affect the perception of Middle Earth of the bigger Tolkien nerds, not common perception.

 

[Ajidica]

Hmmm, Sauron's origins may be in the west, but he spends most of his time dwelling in the East, and making it his stronghold, so I'd have to give Crzeth that particular point.

Is it though? In the First Age Sauron was in Beleriand, getting into rap battles with the chillest elf to ever live. Much of the Second Age was spent wandering and hanging out in Eriador as Annatar. Even the Third Age saw a lot of wandering and hanging out in Mirkwood.
Plus, I'm not sure one can consider Mordor all that far East. Sure, it is east of the Anduin, but its not like Anduin was some sort of mystical dividing line between good and bad, with all sorts of people who have Tolkiens stamp of approval living east of the Anduin, further east even than Mordor.

 

[H4run]

As I ponder the discourse surrounding the socio-political dynamics in Eurasia, particularly the West's perspective on the state of affairs in Russia, a worrying trend emerges. It appears that the West, especially in their media narratives, tends to fixate on certain motifs and stereotypes rather than delve into the complexities of real-world material conditions.

For instance, rarely do we hear about the intricacies of property ownership or the ethics of grain subsidies in these regions. Instead, we are bombarded with narratives of a 'sick' Russia, led by the 'dictator' Putin, with Russian identity being reduced to war and plunder.

This phenomenon bears a striking resemblance to a well-known fantasy archetype - the fight against monstrous creatures from the 'uncivilized' parts of the world. And to illustrate this, I bring up J.R.R. Tolkien's masterpiece, The Lord of the Rings.

Tolkien, in his epic tale, describes Orcs as "mustering," with "wild peoples" arming themselves in the east and south. And he also wrote that the orcs were “squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types” in his Letter #210. What a thriller!

Sauron, the chief antagonist of Tolkien's narrative, can be seen as an archetypal figure representing the 'other', the foreign threat, the great leader of these Eastern and Southern 'wild peoples'. This interpretation aligns with the prevailing Western narratives of non-Western leaders, particularly those from Eurasia. Sauron is depicted as a malevolent force, unifying diverse factions into a menacing, unified threat against the 'civilized' West, much like the way non-Western leaders are often portrayed. It's no small coincidence that Sauron hails from the East, further reinforcing this Orientalist trope. Just as Sauron rallies the 'uncivilized' Orcs and other 'wild peoples', so too do Western narratives often portray Eurasian leaders as rallying their nations for conflict and war, while ignoring the complexities and diversities within these nations. Tolkien's portrayal of the Orcs as 'degraded and repulsive versions' of what Europeans consider 'least lovely Mongol-types' is a manifestation of the same mindset. It echoes a pattern of dehumanization and othering that is pervasive in Western attitudes towards the 'East' or the 'South'.

Now, ask yourself, in this narrative, who does Sauron - the one marshaling these forces - represent? Is he a stand-in for an Elder of Zion, commanding the forces of the south and east against the West? Does this not echo the ways in which the West perceives and talks about political disputes in Eurasia? Does it not suggest a deep current of anti-semitic paranoia that underwrites the proud legionary retainer class of the Western bourgeoisie? The answer is yes.

Such narratives can be both insidious and harmful, as they reduce complex societies and cultures to mere caricatures or villains, thereby justifying conflict, domination, and the denial of agency to those being characterized in this manner. It's a troubling legacy that we need to actively challenge and dismantle in our understanding of global politics and relations. Let's use this opportunity to challenge and critique the Western narrative, and strive to see beyond the fantasy world it propagates. Let's recognize the diversity of human experience, the complexity of socio-political landscapes, and the need for a wizened, nuanced understanding of global affairs, to make Gandalf proud, if Gandalf didn't hate Black people.

I completely agree, nice one. The occupation of Ukraine is not and never justified, but in the nuanced context where there's a tendency for injustice, using a single paintbrush to dehumanize rivals or adversaries as a way to build up a war PR machine that produces a Western Dominant Narrative is often vomit-inducing. The conflict in Ukraine isn't only collateral to Putin's government and the government string-pullers in general, but also, many or even sometimes most of the Russian population itself gets "Orcified,". This also happened during the war on terror; it wasn't only ISIS but the whole Muslim population that was held morally responsible, and their religion was scrutinized. I mean, the snobbish attitude pretty much made them fail to understand and comprehend the nature of the war on terror, the motive, the intention and the reason why sane Muslims who have life and family can turn into orc beside Islam injecting an Orcish vaccine that turn Muslims into Orcs. Instead of extinguishing the flame, this kind of dominant narrative masterfully made it grow even bigger. I think this alien invasion attitude really needs to be reconsidered.

 

[Akka]

*sigh*
Yeah, the usual shoehorning of allegories and over-interpretations of a cultural work to push BS politics in it. I'm just going to roll my eyes and enjoy creations.

 

[r16]

unfortunate as in elections are really iffy here and the possible new Goverment has said it will follow Western sanctions against Russia . While seemingly good , it conceivably could also mean undeclared weapon supplies to the good side might end . Which then inconceivably could mean a few countries being ready to believe silly suggestions that Victoria Nuland would allow a relaxation of hazing . But yeah , memos take time to travel .

 

[Evie]

Is it though? In the First Age Sauron was in Beleriand, getting into rap battles with the chillest elf to ever live. Much of the Second Age was spent wandering and hanging out in Eriador as Annatar. Even the Third Age saw a lot of wandering and hanging out in Mirkwood.
Plus, I'm not sure one can consider Mordor all that far East. Sure, it is east of the Anduin, but its not like Anduin was some sort of mystical dividing line between good and bad, with all sorts of people who have Tolkiens stamp of approval living east of the Anduin, further east even than Mordor.

Fairly little time in Eriador, actually - the seduction of the Noldor was a 400 years interlude over the 3500 years history of the Second Age. And he was not exclusively present in Eriador during that period - he came and went, as befit someone pretending to be a visitor from Valinor.

Most every document we have (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, Aldarion and Erendis, On the Delay of Gil-Galad and Numenorean) have him first consolidating his power in the East (and South, but chiefly the East, furthest removed from Valinor) starting around SA 500, then occupying Mordor around SA 1000. I could swear there's also reference to his spirit flying back into the East after his defeat at the end of the second age and patiently healing there until he was strong enough to move again. And we know for sure that during the Watchful Peace, the first time Gandalf drove Sauron out of Dol Guldur, he fled and hid in the East.

Taken together, they all paint to a general picture of Sauron's main power base generally being in the East of Middle Earth, far beyond Mordor (and Dol Guldur) which were advanced stronghold of his power, not his true power base.

 

[Lexicus]

For instance, rarely do we hear about the intricacies of property ownership or the ethics of grain subsidies in these regions.

Why would we be interested in either topic? I am all for proper discussion of material realities inside Russia but not to the extent of considering trivialities, and of course discussion of pertinent realities inside Russia is hampered by the fact that Russia is governed by a criminal dictatorship with no interest in transparency.

It's no small coincidence that Sauron hails from the East,

As I think others may have noted previously, Sauron hails from outside Ëa, the physical world, being an immortal divine spirit.

Tolkien's portrayal of the Orcs as 'degraded and repulsive versions' of what Europeans consider 'least lovely Mongol-types' is a manifestation of the same mindset. It echoes a pattern of dehumanization and othering that is pervasive in Western attitudes towards the 'East' or the 'South'.

I certainly agree with this but it is intentional; Tolkien's works are meant to be in-universe primary documents. They are meant to reflect the perspectives of the "Western" characters in-universe.

Now, ask yourself, in this narrative, who does Sauron - the one marshaling these forces - represent? Is he a stand-in for an Elder of Zion, commanding the forces of the south and east against the West? Does this not echo the ways in which the West perceives and talks about political disputes in Eurasia? Does it not suggest a deep current of anti-semitic paranoia that underwrites the proud legionary retainer class of the Western bourgeoisie? The answer is yes.

Not to say this is a presumptively invalid interpretation of Tolkien's work, but Tolkien was a Semitophile (which is a problematic/racist view in its own way of course) and his Dwarves are meant to be analogues of the Jews.

Let's recognize the diversity of human experience, the complexity of socio-political landscapes, and the need for a wizened, nuanced understanding of global affairs, to make Gandalf proud, if Gandalf didn't hate Black people.

Maybe we can start with the fact that Russian media and official communications evince an attitude which is at least as black-and-white, and reduces its perceived enemies to (in some cases literally) inhuman caricatures to at least as great an extent as anything we see out of Ukraine.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

I only saw the movies I think once. I can't imagine them taking that much more screen time to delve into the intricacies of Orc politics to try and please everyone.

 

[r16]

the American elections are in 2024 , you surely can relax a bit , who can defeat the ring of fire the West has established ?

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Such narratives can be both insidious and harmful, as they reduce complex societies and cultures to mere caricatures or villains, thereby justifying conflict, domination, and the denial of agency to those being characterized in this manner. It's a troubling legacy that we need to actively challenge and dismantle in our understanding of global politics and relations. Let's use this opportunity to challenge and critique the Western narrative, and strive to see beyond the fantasy world it propagates. Let's recognize the diversity of human experience, the complexity of socio-political landscapes, and the need for a wizened, nuanced understanding of global affairs, to make Gandalf proud, if Gandalf didn't hate Black people.

If there wasn't literally warcrimes being committed on the daily by them, maybe we could.

Ten years ago I would have said I wanted to visit Russia one day.. now? I am unsure if in my lifetime it will be doable.

 

[Dreadnought]

I find that most of these sorts of analyses of Tolkien's works are superfluous at best and drawn from a too shallow base of knowledge from which to draw such conclusions.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

I find that most of these sorts of analyses of Tolkien's works are superfluous at best and drawn from a too shallow base of knowledge from which to draw such conclusions.

And having been done by stoned teenagers for 60+ years.

 

[EvaDK]

Tolkien maintained throughout his life, that The Lord of the Rings was not an allegorical story and should not be read as one. He wanted to create a mythology for England. The major theme that runs through the narrative is that of death. Also, Sauron is not the chief antagonist of Tolkien's narrative (which expands far beyond the LOTR storyline); that would be Melkor/Morgoth. Morgoth and Sauron represent the corruptive nature of power.

 

[Hygro]

It's really important to deal with the fire at hand and not hoard context and nuance where its not appropriate.

Wars of conquest by dictators, replete with direct attacks on civilians and terroristic torture of captives should be addressed with "this is evil and must be stopped." No one thinks Russian people are irredeemable orcish, but nor should we stop and go "this is evil and must be stopped but also not everyone is evil and let's remember not to dehumanize the attackers". We can worry about that second.