The wicked nature of pseudo-woke mob

[Anysense]

Whoopi Goldberg recently has come under fire for saying:
“Let’s be truthful, the Holocaust isn’t about race, it’s not. It’s about man’s inhumanity to man, that’s what it’s about. These are two groups of white people,” she said on The View on Monday.

She continued: “You’re missing the point … let’s talk about it for what it really is. It’s about how people treat each other. It’s a problem. It doesn’t matter if you’re black or white, Jews … everybody eats each other.”

Everybody knows that Jews and Germans are white and it is considered natural to condemn the inhumanity of Nazi ideology, so she should be fine saying it, right? Wrong.

“Effective immediately, I am suspending Whoopi Goldberg for two weeks for her wrong and hurtful comments,” Kim Godwin, president of ABC News, wrote in the statement.

“While Whoopi has apologised, I’ve asked her to take time to reflect and learn about the impact of her comments. The entire ABC News organisation stands in solidarity with our Jewish colleagues, friends, family and communities.”

The official exuse for this disgrace is Aryan Germans deemed themselves a race apart, but seriously, how does it make Whoopi's comments so wrong and hurtfull that it earns suspension and the spite she recieved? And what does it achieve really? I think it only confirms what she said: "everybody eats each other".

And while these people pretend to fight for all sorts of good causes, the readiness with which they jump down each others throats is astounding. It seems that they - like all bullies - only really care for an excuse have a go at someone. What exactly the excuse is and who is the victim is unimportant to them. After all, wickedness knows no race, gender or anything.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture...e-view-after-saying-holocaust-isnt-about-race

 

[Senethro]

I see where you're coming from (except the characterization as mob etc) but it is a little bit "All Lives Matter" though.

Yeah the world is Dog Eat Dog but we shouldn't miss the point that there are particular characteristics historically associated with doing the eating.

 

[Samson]

I have a certain sympathy for Whoopi, but I think she is wrong. If race was some objective thing that could be determined by genetics then one could make this argument, in that you could not distingish between those who were taken in the Holocaust from those who were left with a SNP chip.

However I think it is much more useful to interpret race as a label that is imposed by the oppressor upon the oppressed. In this context it is clear that the Holocaust was all about race.

 

[Hygro]

This is a joke right?

What part of “race is a social construct” is not embedded in anyone’s skull. It doesn’t matter if 2022 Americans say “Jews are white and our racial system is about color gradients” for Aryanism vs Judaism to be Nazi Germany’s delineations of race.

 

[EnglishEdward]

.. could not distingish between those who were taken in the Holocaust from those who were left with a SNP chip...

Is Nicola Sturgeon implanting these in everybody or just in the English?

 

[uppi]

She was implicating, that American racism is the only correct racism. Which is a stupid and hurtful position.

 

[amadeus]

Suspension without pay? Otherwise she just got a vacation.

The bigger problem, really the only problem: people getting their opinions from The View.

 

[Hygro]

She doesn’t need to get punished lmao

 

[Senethro]

I'm amazed at how many good lists on wikipedia there are for things. Like, lists of Countries with X law, or Nations the UK has been at War With.

So when I went looking for a list of Jewish pogroms in Europe just hoping to make it quickly clear that there are a few thousand years of context potentially relevant here I was surprised to find it did not already exist.

 

[amadeus]

She doesn’t need to get punished lmao

Yes she does

Spoiler :

 

[Samson]

I'm amazed at how many good lists on wikipedia there are for things. Like, lists of Countries with X law, or Nations the UK has been at War With.

So when I went looking for a list of Jewish pogroms in Europe just hoping to make it quickly clear that there are a few thousand years of context potentially relevant here I was surprised to find it did not already exist.

I am also a bit surprised, but then I found this. It is limited to 1903 TO 1906, and just the table is 17 pages long and claims to be "far from complete". The full list for the last thousand years would be pretty big.

 

[Farm Boy]

She doesn’t need to get punished lmao

This punishment isn't about needs. It's also not about improving anyone. Whether or not Whoopi is exactly right for the point in American discourse is also not the point. The self righteousness is the point and there is no better way to be self righteous than to hurt somebody if you can. That's it.

 

[Gorbles]

The self righteousness is the point and there is no better way to be self righteous than to hurt somebody if you can. That's it.

Whose self-righteousness, though? Goldberg's? The people she spoke for? The network?

I'm assuming you mean the network in this specific case, but "self-righteousness" is hardly a one-sided thing, here. Everybody has their own form of it.

 

[Samson]

This punishment isn't about needs. It's also not about improving anyone. Whether or not Whoopi is exactly right for the point in American discourse is also not the point. The self righteousness is the point and there is no better way to be self righteous than to hurt somebody if you can. That's it.

That is certainly something you can say about the wider criminal justice system, but the "cancel culture" thing is really about changing behaviour. Whether you class that behavioural change as "woke self censoring" or "not normalising bigotry" it is much more about results than 20 years for 3 bounced checks.

 

[Hygro]

@Farm Boy , I can understand a show about shaping discourse such as the view would not want that view to be The view so I can understand them not wanting her to have say in their narrative for a minute. I’m not endorsing it but it’s moot.

I do agree with the point you are making that self righteousness is a goal but that’s probably not the collective motive of The View and I don’t think there’s going to be a mass desire to cancel Goldberg, so I’m not sure this is a clear example of identity crusading.

Like I agree what she said was trash, mostly because she’s endorsing American racism as if the racism is correct on its categories rather than arbitrary, just as the Nazi’s was arbitrary. Call me the semantics police but it matters.

I agree with Goldberg’s deeper point that division leading to heinous mass evils need not be racist to happen, but she picked the worst possible example other than American slavery to make her point and as such is being racist in her structural (language) denial of an example of racist oppression.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ya'll are crazy*. World is being retrofitted for you though, so take heart.

*It either that or capitalists. You take your pick, I sided with the nicer option.

 

[Kyriakos]

I haven't followed Whoopi, only recall her in some films (like Girl Interrupted, where she was very good).
I suspect this is just her not bothering to examine much of the context, and (not out of malice; she comes across as very friendly) just being ignorant of the very obvious racial hatred in the aftermath of ww1 in german nations (and not only german ones, but more pronounced there).
But this has another factor - her suspension. I think the suspension happened for (also) negative reason, which is a type of exceptional protectionism of holocaust, against (and over) everything else. Obviously it was a racial crime, no doubt about it, but I suspect the same vigilance isn't shown against other genocides, which is problematic.

 

[amadeus]

I had a thought, and it's not meant as a leading question: how would the response have been different if: a different example was used to make the same point, and what if its use was by a white host? Suppose one of them said the Rwandan genocide wasn't about race because Hutus and Tutsis are both black. I'm pretty sure ABC would have jumped on that too had that been the case.

Point is, if any: try to find a less egregious example that makes the same point, but without getting yourself thrown off the network.

 

[Kyriakos]

Yes, many genocides (not all) are between groups of people of the "same" "color". They still have clear racial triggers or factors; if the genocidal side argues the other is inherently inferior, it can't be for reasons which aren't racial. Unfortunately in the US it often happens that racial antipathy gets presented as in tautology with white vs black, but that is only one example of it (let alone that, naturally, it couldn't have been all "white" cultures/states vs all "black" ones).

 

[r16]

thread clearly lacks conspiracies about how Jews are using the non-White issues to weaken the White male and yet forcefully deny equal status to anything when the discussion reaches Holocaust . Like more topically will Disney take advantage of this spat to apply some brakes on the moves for a more diversified casting stuff , say , a green with yellow polka dots Gandalf who is also a lesbian ? Are the sales showing any signs of slowing down ?