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The Winds of God

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Berzerker, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-07-reveals-secret-asteroids-meteorites.html#jCp

    https://www.csun.edu/~rlc31920/documents/History 110/Enuma_Elish.pdf

    Apsu
    Mummu
    Lahmu and Lahamu
    Tiamat
    Kishar
    Anshar
    Anu
    Nudimmud

    The 9 Olden Gods

    The orbits of the planets were chaotic, migrating about causing disruptions. Marduk arrives to bring order from chaos...

    http://www.iflscience.com/environment/massive-asteroids-battered-early-earth/

    The Earth was pummeled too...Maybe the Earth was Tiamat.
     
  2. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Chieftain

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    Interesting news story. Kind of glazed over after that though.
     
  3. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    From your link:
    From the same website:
    Both cannot be true.

    From your link:
    So just how did the Sumerians come to know what happened 4 billion years earlier? That's a pretty long oral transmission path.

    Did they change anything else?

    Myths are like oracles. When properly told, they can fit almost any scenario you choose to fit them too.
     
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  4. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    The short version: some people believe (and I think its possible) the Enuma Elish (and Genesis) describes events in our solar system 4+ bya before the continents and life began developing. That myth describes the transformation of the proto Earth by several "winds". If asteroids and meteorites have a half dozen parents, the myth has more corroboration.

    Anyway, if the asteroids did originate with a half dozen or so bodies, thats big news. It jives with the myth and theory. But not so much with current theory that says they're more primitive than the (minor) planets. If 85% - 100% of the asteroids originated within several larger objects, then meteorites are not remnants of the primeval solar system before the planets formed. Now, they can still be old and represent the material that went into forming the planets, but they had already gone thru a process of planetismal building.

    This evidence doesn't bode well for that idea. If the asteroid belt was empty and later became a repository for material leftover from the planets we shouldn't see a mere half dozen or so parent bodies. The material would have many parents, or none at all. Besides, the asteroid belt is home to the solar system's freeze line. When the sun ignited the solar wind blew gas outward to where it was cold enough to condense. Thats why the asteroid belt has a dry inner half and wet outer half, it literally sits on the one spot in the solar system a planet should form. But if a planet did form there and was pummeled, Jupiter would be the first in line to absorb material released by the impacts.

    According to them, their gods are the source of this knowledge. So what happened 4 bya? A planet covered by water suffered massive impacts resulting in a land building process and life.
    Who told the world's people this planet was covered by water and that land and life followed 'creation'? The myth of a water covered world is quite explicit. What other scenario can you fit it into?
     
  5. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    What scenario are you fitting it into? Who is the “who” you allude to?

    Oh wait it’s ancient aliens again and I do not in fact give a crap. Funny how that goes!
     
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  6. Oerdin

    Oerdin Chieftain

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    It is a shame Mars couldn't have vacuumed up more asteroids so that it would be larger. At 1.25 times the size of Earth it would have had the mass to hold on to that atmosphere and really develop onto Earth 2.0.
     
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  7. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    Researchers are trying to explain Mars' small size... Their solution: another planet further from the sun robbed Mars of material. A planet at the asteroid belt. Sort of... They argue Jupiter migrated inward before being pulled back by Saturn, or something like that. There's a problem with that idea - it requires the formation and migration of outer gas giants (Jupiter anyway) before Mars could vacuum up material.

    And yet here you are...
     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    It only jives with the myth because you choose to try and align one interpretation of the story to an imaginary enhancement of a process that not only is 4 billion years old, but likely took many millions of years. Then to make it work you have to add ancient aliens. Weak. It makes a better movie script than science or reality.


    The make up of the wet/dry asteroids is very different. If the asteroids that pummeled the earth were from the inner belt, that part is dry and wouldn't provide any water for the earth. It is the outer belt that is wet and is theorized to have contributed water to the earth.


    You don't have the water "based" asteroids in the inner belt.
     
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  9. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Berzerker, you should absolutely send this and every other article you've ever subjected us to here, to the planetary scientists who are trying to figure this out. Just think... give them the information and your ancient aliens notions, and it'll be all wrapped up by Tuesday next week.

    Then they can write new astronomy textbooks and pseudoscience will win the day over real science.

    After all, since your own country's leader is determined to drag your country back to the Dark Ages in so many ways, why not be patriotic and help him?

    Moderator Action: Flaming another member, even mildly, is not helpful. If you don't like the content of the thread, don't post in it. --LM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2018
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    I didn't add ancient aliens, the people who gave us these myths said people from the sky taught them. Asteroids didn't pummel the Earth, they are the debris from the collisions between the proto-Earth (Tiamat) and God's winds and this research says a half dozen parent bodies are their source. That jives with the myth, it identifies several "winds" used by God to vanquish the proto-Earth.

    Now if asteroids and meteorites had numerous sources which is what we'd expect if that material was more primitive, more pristine than (minor) planets, then that would not jive with the myth. Of course once the asteroids came into existence during the celestial battle between Tiamat and Marduk they'd be hitting the planets etc (just look at the Moon for evidence of that battle), but they were released from a very small number of larger parent bodies.

    That means the asteroids and meteorites could have been produced by the interaction of 2 planets and their moons. The resulting collisions produced debris that can be traced back to a half dozen bodies. Thats important, the myth's credibility depends on the science.

    As for delivering water to the Earth via asteroids, the mechanism involves a migration of Jupiter into and back out of the asteroid belt region. The myth describes a chaotic period when the planets encroached upon Tiamat so I wouldn't rule out migrating planets but the research I've seen claims the Earth formed with water, it was wet from the start. But our water formed at the asteroid belt. That means the Earth formed at the asteroid belt and acquired this orbit closer to the sun.

    Maybe thats why Genesis says the sun and moon came to dominate the sky on the 4th day, earlier events happened at the asteroid belt where both sun and moon were dim. Gen 1:2 describes a water world covered in darkness before God's wind hovered over the water, and then, let there be light - impact. Night and day was the result. We know what causes night and day, we're spinning and its because of a collision.

    The grand tack theory - Jupiter's migration in and out of the asteroid belt region - tries to explain certain phenomenon like our water. But researchers are also using Jupiter as the mechanism for the late heavy bombardment ~4+ bya. Something's wrong with that theory, Jupiter supposedly moved into the belt dispersing water laden asteroids to supply Earth with its water. But our water is older than the late heavy bombardment, its older than the planet. And how did Jupiter migrate twice into the asteroids and why didn't it clean the area the first time? Something else caused the late heavy bombardment. The link I posted in the OP describes 7-11 minor planets up to 600 miles across hitting the Earth.

    The experts could have saved some time by reading myth... It wasn't too long ago they were telling us the world was too hot and molten to have water, thats why they named the first 1/2 billion or so years the Hadean. Now they're telling us water was here from the beginning. Welcome to Gen 1:2 ;)

    And now they're telling us all those asteroids and meteorites came from a half dozen parent bodies? Maybe they're the same bodies that slammed into the Earth 4+ bya. Coincidence? Consider that coincidence... The science says all that debris flying around out there came from ~6 larger bodies and the science says ~6 larger bodies struck the Earth around 4 billion years ago. Thats one helluva coincidence.
     
  11. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I would love to have a front-row seat if you were ever to tell the planetary scientists that their jobs would be so much easier if they'd just read Genesis instead of bothering with this "science stuff."

    If scientists change their minds, it's because they have uncovered new information that prompts new hypotheses. But hypotheses are not the same as theories (in the scientific sense, not the layman's habit of equating "theories" with "notions" or "opinions").
     
  12. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Chieftain

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    Yeah I feel like I'm missing some vital link in this chain. I can't see any obvious link, even metaphorical, between "winds" and minor planets that broke up to form asteroids. The only link I can see you making is between the word "several" and the phrase "five or six". Yes, "five or six" is pretty synonymous with "several", but I'm struggling to see how "winds" is synonymous with "minor planets"...
     
  13. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    We have a front row seat to scientists uncovering information that was provided long ago by our ancestors. People all over the world believe(d) the Earth was covered by water and now the scientists are figuring that out. Better late than never... But like I said, they could have saved some time by investigating religion and mythology with an open mind.

    The gods are celestial bodies - planets for the most part (sun and moon being the exceptions). Tiamat was carved up and part of her became the Earth and another became the hammered bracelet (Heaven, firmament) left behind to mark the battle site. The winds are the weapons Marduk used to batter Tiamat, they're satellites or moons. Our moon was Tiamat's primary defender (Kingu).

    If you look at the moon you will see it has 2 very different sides - 'highlands' on the side facing away from us. But the side facing us now was plastered so heavily by debris ejected from the impacts magma poured out to create maria or seas. Maybe thats why the Moon doesn't orbit Earth's equatorial plane. It should... It would if something hadn't disrupted the Earth-Moon system. The Earth's tilt changed because of that disruption, probably ~5 degrees. Assuming of course the Moon had been following an equatorial orbit before the impacts. Its possible the Moon's orbit was altered too, but it was the proto-Earth that took the biggest hits.

    The significance of the article is that asteroids and meteorites can be traced back to several larger parent bodies, not to primordial dust grains. Combine this information with the research claiming the Earth was hit by several minor planets 4+- bya and we have a peculiar coincidence. The asteroids and meteorites come from 6-7 bodies and 6-7 bodies struck the Earth. If the Earth was here in this orbit, wouldn't we find debris from those collisions? Why is all the 'stuff' out there between Mars and Jupiter? Because thats where the Earth was, covered with water in darkness just like it says in Gen 1:2. Let there be light refers to a celestial collision that produced night and day among other phenomenon.
     
  14. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    :lmao:

    Please save your typing. You are never going to convince me that the planets are supernatural beings.
     
  15. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    The olden gods of the Enuma Elish were celestial bodies, the myth is describing our solar system before and after the creation of Heaven and Earth. The planets weren't supernatural beings, the gods associated with them were the supernatural beings. The planet Jupiter was associated with Zeus, but the planet was not Zeus. All those myths about Zeus' deeds and misdeeds were tales about a supernatural being, not a speck of light crossing the sky each night.
     
  16. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    How many people have you converted to this belief system since you started preaching it here?

    I am perfectly aware that there are tales about the ancient gods and that they were associated with specific planets or other stellar phenomena. But you keep insisting on supernatural reasons for things that are explainable by normal science.
     
  17. Lohrenswald

    Lohrenswald nIGHTMARE

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    Checkmate, atheists
     
  18. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    A man at a bus stop once told me that if you look inside a dog's ear you can see
    a little ghost. Therefore Berzerker could be right.
     
  19. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Could you clarify this comment?
     
  20. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    What gets me is the dishonesty of intent and the lying by omission. This isn't a discussion, its a street sermon. His actual belief is that extraterrestrial contact gave Babylonians this knowledge of the solar system and Berz rarely says this because its more obviously stupid.

    is joke, i lolled
     
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