The wisdom of crowds sucks

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hygro, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    28,623
    Location:
    London, UK
    One difference between this and Reddit say is that responders are rewarded by the person asking the original question, so if it's not relevant to the question or doesn't satisfy the OP, it won't be selected. It might still be upvoted, but the response that the OP accepts as the answer will appear first in the list.

    It is also more strictly moderated of course.
     
    amadeus likes this.
  2. Ironsided

    Ironsided Flower of happiness

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,267
    Stop gauge, stop being wierd Nerd boy - thats a lie - i like it.
     
  3. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,199
    The correct guy isn't doing a good job making the crowd wiser if he posts a 3 word response in all caps. That's spammy and annoying. Of course people downvote. Every community that cares about correctness in the world has norms about how you should convey information and convince others they should listen to you. In math they have proofs. In they science they have evidence. In internet communities that are actually helpful (some subreddits, Stack Overflow), they have baseline standards of answer quality and if you don't meet them, everyone gets mad at you. Also, everyone else needs to play their part to make the crowd wiser. The OP should go in and check who's right and say so. If you notice that guy's right and everyone else is wrong, you should say so and explain why. I don't think crowds are just spontaneously wise. Very particular norms have to be established to actually make wisdom an emergent phenomenon of the crowd. Otherwise crowds are dumber than all the members individually.
     
    Synsensa, Socrates99 and Mise like this.
  4. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,829
    Peer review, I guess, then? Though that then runs into corruption when it goes long enough. You're probably right. I still tend to like peer review like they do in academia. Peer review like wikipedia is still inappropriate to use as a source in undergraduate research.
     
  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,387
    Location:
    On the one spin
    Which is a good example of why I generally invite people to implement their own ideas whenever possible. As I've said to you before, I find that this causes most people to either consciously or subconsciously realize that their idea really wasn't that good, and it cuts down dramatically on exactly the "too many chiefs/chefs" dynamic.
     
    Lexicus and Birdjaguar like this.
  6. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,829
    I believe that's phrased, "knock yourself out." :lol:
     
    Sommerswerd and Birdjaguar like this.
  7. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,355
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Michigan
    A catch all site with answers and forums on everything kind of muddles the good information with a lot of "internet experts."

    Since we're of CFC I'll use this as an example. Oftentimes on a smaller specialized forum like this you'll see familiar avatars who frequently give good advice you know you can trust. Sometimes you'll see that on reddit but more often than not the users bounce around and are more casual. I'd say we can all agree CFC is one of the best places for civ related questions.

    I've seen the same thing in brewing, home improvement, or even just trying to figure out how to fix something on my RV. Reddit tends to be my choice only if I can't find a more specialized site.

    I do wonder if information on reddit could be improved with a super user system where people can input their occupations to lend credence to their opinions. Something that gets attached to your username so people know you're not some 13yr old pretending to be a lawyer one day and a mechanical engineer the next.
     
  8. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,693
    Several of the /r/ask subreddits do that.

    Of course, the normies get mad about how difficult it is to post in those communities, and how many comments get deleted in each thread. But the quality is generally solid.
     
    Socrates99 likes this.
  9. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    17,050
    Location:
    Tir ná Lia
    Politeness is way overrated. The content of what you say is almost everything. The downvoted Redditor's only mistake is not giving the impression that his content is good. If you couldn't google the answer, few people would know that it's a good answer.
     
    Hygro likes this.
  10. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,647
    Location:
    California
    Yeah, but now we have a selection problem. The doers and winners we need to hear from might need to cultivate vibes that aren't consistent with the decorum of the forum, which in turn will turn the winners away from bothering.
     
  11. tuckerkao

    tuckerkao King

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    728
    Most people choose to hear what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear. If a student has the mix performance of grades in the school, he/she wants to be praised for the good grades in English and history and just put math and science on the side, then consider it as the politeness for other people not to ask about their weaker categories, guess what it'll not change the reality. If some of them end up not able to pay their bills and put foods on their tables someday for the extensive of the period of times, they may not even realize what has gone wrong and just become mad about everything.
     
  12. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,199
    That's an ok problem to have if the decorum/norms are usually good at creating crowd sourced wisdom. Stack Overflow would be so much worse if people were allowed to post terse, all-caps answers. And that's a community that probably provides billions of dollars worth of crowd sourced wisdom. Not even exaggerating, my quality of life would be worse. I'd rather that guy not be able to post (assuming he really just has to post terse all caps answers; obviously it's more likely he could just spend 10 more seconds on his answer) than allow all the good norms to be compromised.
     
  13. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,387
    Location:
    On the one spin
    Gal Gadot Avatar FTW.
     
    Truthy likes this.
  14. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,829
    Stem alone does not provide social value. That manners and socialization are hard, particularly across cultures, does not mean they are overrated. The accord, itself, has value.

    Somebody has to be around to say when Elon is having a good idea regarding cars or rockets, and somebody has to be around to damn his input when he's a rich dink immune from and blind to the pestilences of his lessers.
     
    Birdjaguar likes this.
  15. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,647
    Location:
    California
    Another frustration of seeing a community downvote falsities and upvote truth is I lose faith in the community's knowledge as a whole. I myself am not infrequently downvoted for correct information on reddit, which is the same but accelerates the loss of trust.

    Because we are gaming the validity of information based on thinking other people know things you do not, we cannot know if people are right or wrong when we don't already know. But if we have frequent experiences when we do know, it gets really easy to then think that people are just wrong, therefore, [infinite possibilities of maverick, rogue, and crazy thinkers] are right.
     
  16. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    43,646
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    @Hygro The problem with Reddit is that it is probably not a good cross section. For wisdom of crowds to do its job, you need a good community mix that is more diverse than a typical Reddit group.
     
  17. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,647
    Location:
    California
    It's true, but it's already a better more diverse cross-section than so many other aggregators.
     
    Birdjaguar likes this.
  18. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    5,169
    Gender:
    Male
    @Mouthwash lol

    I like stack exchange, reddit, youtube, and wikipedia. The expansive spread of knowledge has been nothing short of amazing in the last ten years. Completely astounding. I've taught myself carpentry, plumbing, and more music theory stuff that would have never been possible 20 years ago.
     
    The_J, Hygro and Birdjaguar like this.
  19. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,647
    Location:
    California
    Haha my thoughts exactly
     
  20. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    9,368
    Location:
    Hiding
    What's, ah, going on?
     

Share This Page