The worse of two evils II: Pol Pot vs Mao Zedong

Which regime was worse?

  • Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge

    Votes: 27 69.2%

  • Mao Zedong's Maoism and the Communist Party

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • They were both equally evil

    Votes: 4 10.3%

  • I honestly do not care about them

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Total voters
    39
Khmer Rogue? I thought the Khmerian empire ended back in the 1400s when the Thai beat them to a pulp and evacuated Angkor Wat
 
Rouge, not Rogue - Red Khmer. Basically some pervert form of communism.

There is a link regarding them in the Pol Pot article, I would have said you should have voted "I do not care" if you do not know the "modern" Khmer.
 
Well I want to say that this thread was made unbyased.
Voted Pol Pot.
 
Longasc said:
Rouge, not Rogue - Red Khmer. Basically some pervert form of communism.

There is a link regarding them in the Pol Pot article, I would have said you should have voted "I do not care" if you do not know the "modern" Khmer.
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It's Cambodia... ;)
 
Pol Pot, without a doubt. 2 million of his countrymen died under his regime, which was about 30% of the population. Mao would had to have killed in the 100s of millions to achieve the same effect, which he obviously did not.
 
although i recognise the crimes of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution, as well as the general 'mistakes' of communist rule in general, I don't think there is any comparison whatsoever between the two. Pol Pot is by far and away without a shadow of a doubt the worst.

Mao and the communists have modernised china, provided food and shelter, economic growth etc etc for the largest population in the world. *This is not a defence of communism, chinese communism or mao*
Pol Pot's warped agrarian communism failed to have any benefit for cambodia and resulted in the deaths of about 1/4 of the population. When the Vietnamese invaded to defeat him, resistance was light, which I think shows the lack of support for KR by the population. I think that if a nation invaded China, in the Mao period or now, the population would oppose the invasion.
 
DexterJ said:
Mao and the communists have modernised china, provided food and shelter, economic growth etc etc for the largest population in the world. *This is not a defence of communism, chinese communism or mao*
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I recognize the caveat, but Mao did not really modernize China. He simply turned all of its resources toward creating one good: steel. Most of the modernization that has occured was in recent times, after Mao and Deng, when they started allowing SEZs in the east.
 
@ Yom, I dont think so:

Following the consolidation of power, Mao launched a phase of rapid, forced collectivization, lasting until around 1958. The CPC introduced price controls largely successful at breaking the inflationary spiral of the preceding ROC as well as a Chinese character simplification aimed at increasing literacy. Land was redistributed from land-owners to poor peasants and large-scale industrialization projects were undertaken, contributing to the construction of a modern national infrastructure. During this period China sustained yearly increases in GDP of about 4–9% as well as dramatic improvements in quality-of-life indicators such as life expectancy and literacy. The CPC also adopted policies intended to promote science, women's rights, and minorities' rights, while combating drug use and prostitution.
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from that website.

The steel issue of which you speak was part of the great leap forward and was abanonded due to the poor quality steel which it generaelly produced. I have definitive 'The Rise of Modern China' by Immanuel Hsu in front of me, left over from my history degree and am prepared to argue this out.
 
DexterJ said:
@ Yom, I dont think so:

from that website.

The steel issue of which you speak was part of the great leap forward and was abanonded due to the poor quality steel which it generaelly produced. I have definitive 'The Rise of Modern China' by Immanuel Hsu in front of me, left over from my history degree and am prepared to argue this out.
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I don't deny that some modernization took place, but the majority of modernization was after Mao was out of power. The Great Leap Forward was a devastating blow to China. It took them years to get back to 1958 levels after its failure.

Wikipedia said:
During the Great Leap, the Chinese economy initially grew, and iron production increased 45% in 1958 and a combined 30% over the next two years, but plummeted in 1961, and would not reach the level it was at in 1958 until 1964. The famine period was once known as the Three Years of Natural Disasters, although this name is now rarely used in China because it is acknowledged that the disasters were less rooted in natural events than bad economic planning. It is also called the Great Leap Famine.
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Brother No.1 (Pol Pot) is the ultimate dictator by far. To quote the Great Chairman (Mao): "Where China makes one step, Cambodia makes three".
 
Chinas GNP increased from 73.8 billion yuan to 123.4 billion in 1958, which is generally regarded as impressive by Western economic analyists. This figure of 70% increase was followed by an increase of 30% between 1959 and 1970, which is less impressive obviously. For the period 1952-70 as a whole the annual growth rate was 4 to 4.5%, which as Immanuel Hsu states, is 'a respectable though not spectacuar performance'.

The Great Leap foward was announced in Febuary 1958 and yes it did put economic performance back, though not as badly as you think.
Agricultural production dropped from (using an index of 100 representing 1957) 108 in 1958, 86 in 1959 and 83 in 1960.
Industrial production went from (using an index of 100 representing 1957) 131 in 1958, 166 in 1959, 162 in 1960 and 108 in 1961.
GNP dropped from 95 billion in 1958, 92 billion in 1959, 89 billion in 1960 and 72 billion in 1961.

Chinas huge economic takeoff began in 1978 under Chairman Hua with the Four Modernisations (of agriculture, industry, science and national defence).

Hsu describes Mao with the following poem (which I think is quite good):

As a revolutionary,
Mao had few peers.
As a nation builder,
He was unequal to the task

I don't think Pol Pot did any nation building at all (to get back on topic). So he is far worse.
 
DexterJ said:
Chinas GNP increased from 73.8 billion yuan to 123.4 billion in 1958, which is generally regarded as impressive by Western economic analyists. This figure of 70% increase was followed by an increase of 30% between 1959 and 1970, which is less impressive obviously. For the period 1952-70 as a whole the annual growth rate was 4 to 4.5%, which as Immanuel Hsu states, is 'a respectable though not spectacuar performance'.

The Great Leap foward was announced in Febuary 1958 and yes it did put economic performance back, though not as badly as you think.
Agricultural production dropped from (using an index of 100 representing 1957) 108 in 1958, 86 in 1959 and 83 in 1960.
Industrial production went from (using an index of 100 representing 1957) 131 in 1958, 166 in 1959, 162 in 1960 and 108 in 1961.
GNP dropped from 95 billion in 1958, 92 billion in 1959, 89 billion in 1960 and 72 billion in 1961.

Chinas huge economic takeoff began in 1978 under Chairman Hua with the Four Modernisations (of agriculture, industry, science and national defence).

Hsu describes Mao with the following poem (which I think is quite good):

As a revolutionary,
Mao had few peers.
As a nation builder,
He was unequal to the task

I don't think Pol Pot did any nation building at all (to get back on topic). So he is far worse.
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Thank you for those figures. Perhaps he was not as bad as I thought economically. Still, I think that China could have better under a capitalist system. Either way, Pol Pot did the opposite of nation building. He did all in his power to create a completely agrarian society in which modern technology was banned.
 
Sigh... Two more evil regimes created as a result to imitate Marxism.

IMO Mao is the worse one due to his evil charismatic personality, his Great Leap Forward(AKA Giant Step Backward), and his horrific Cultural Revolution.

A friend of mine actually is a Mao worshipper who believes to the extent of his poor little heart that Communism is the way to go.
 
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