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Theocracy to slowly remove non-state religions from cities?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by JRockford, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. JRockford

    JRockford Chieftain

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    Is there anyway to make Theocracy slowly eliminate non-state religions from non-holy city cities?

    What would the best way of doing this be? I've thought of the inquisitor unit, but in my opinion that poses too many problems with the AI and gives a significant (perhaps?) advantage to the player. This way, if the AI has theocracy, it benefits the same way.
     
  2. snarko

    snarko DLLer

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    Yes there is a way. Python. You'll need to know exactly under which circumstances you want to remove a religion and then add events for it.
     
  3. JRockford

    JRockford Chieftain

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    I'm not sure the best conditions for something like this, specifically. I was thinking, over time, perhaps, every few turns one non-holy city with a non-state religion is removed and perhaps the buildings associated with that religion are removed too.

    I have no understanding of python so am unsure of the difficulty this will pose, but am willing to undertake it if anyone has any constructive direction for where I should begin?
     
  4. snarko

    snarko DLLer

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    Learn python.
    Look at how other mods are made.
    Experiment.
    (Also if you do make this you might want to copy parts of the inquisitor mod ;))
     
  5. Mumin

    Mumin Warlord

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    Good idea. Overall, I think this game has a bit too rosy picture about religious tolerance. I think there should be a risk of purging non-state religions in a city under both the "organized religion" and especially "theocracy" civics.

    A purge could be associated with a/some negative side effects such as temporary unhappiness, loss of culture, loss of population and loss of purged religious buildings. Rival civs with more tolerant attitude (Paganism/Pacifism/Free Religion) then reaps some benefits as persecuted people, like Einstein, flees to them.
     
  6. flobi

    flobi Rewrite Civilization

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    Well, you would have to get rid of any temples/etc from the removed religion in the city which would remove the effects of those buildings from the city.
     
  7. JRockford

    JRockford Chieftain

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    Me too. Right now, to keep things simple, what I'd like to do is have it - at various intervals, remove non-state religions from cities, unless it's a holy city for that religion. The same would apply to religion specific buildings, like temples and things - they would get razed.

    As far as negative effects, at least initially, I'm not sure I'd want to complicate it - because to some extent, from the loss of benefits from these buildings, this is already a punishment.
     
  8. maxpublic

    maxpublic Warlord

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    Kill a portion of the population as well, representing the heathens you've just decided to butcher for the greater glory of god. That would represent monotheism in our own world quite nicely.

    Max
     
  9. aeric67

    aeric67 Chieftain

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    How about a new civic: Inquisition.
     
  10. MerakSpielman

    MerakSpielman Warlord

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    There is currently no mechanic in the game for it to be beneficial to remove religions from a city. At the moment, the more religions the better (with the exception of other nations being able to see inside your territory). If you have 3 religions, you can have 3 temples and 3 monasteries, with the benefits from each simply stacking together.

    I think there should be a mechanic that gives you a bonus if the only religion in a city is your state religion. Perhaps extra happiness?
     
  11. JRockford

    JRockford Chieftain

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    I understand there is currently no benefit, that religious proliferation is actually helpful for your civ. However, I still think an offset of theocracy should be the removal of non-state religion over time.

    This would be accomplished, over time, through assimilation, persecution, and education.

    I'm not so keen on the population loss, because that isn't represented well - especially over time. The Irish conversion to Catholicism, for instance, wasn't exactly an extermination or inquisition.

    In a Theocracy, you should be the faith of your sovereign and there are many incentives to do so.

    Anyway, this is what I intend to do and perhaps there can be an additional happiness for every city that has only your state religion. And this benefit would happen regardless of your civic.
     
  12. aeric67

    aeric67 Chieftain

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    Giving free gold to your opponents is a reason to get their religion out.
     
  13. Fachy

    Fachy Prince

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    I agree with most of what's been said here, and I was trying to make a mod which makes it impossible to switch religions before 200 turns (instead of a mere 5). Also making it impossible to benefit from (for example) Islamic temples unless the state religion is Islam.

    This way we make sure each civ benefits from 1 religion only, which makes sense. I mean, 100% Moslem city with 1 temple = +1 happy face. 50% Moslem and 50% Christian with 2 temples =.... +2 happy faces???

    The problem is I couldn't find the xml line which sets the value of 5 or 200 :( Nor do I know which line makes a certain building non-benefittable unless it matches with the state religion (if such lines exist)
     
  14. NikG

    NikG SDK Lover

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    I had the same idea, but becuase of to much work with my studies, I havnt yet tried to implement it. But I did think something like this:

    If in Theocracy, there is 5 % chance that a non-state religion in a city will be removed. No specific events should be made, only checking if current civ
    has the Theocracy civic, and if so, go through every city, and "make" a random number, if the number is between 0 and 5 then remove a random non-state religion, if no non-statereligion is present or the only non-statereligion is the religions holy city, nothing happens.

    For me it is important that the AI can coup with any mods we make, and the Inquisition mod is good, the AI has no clue whatsoever how to make use of it.

    I think this cannot be a stand alone mod, it needs to be incoperated with a civic mod, (or more generally mod) that makes religion much more negative. After all, history is full of religious unrest and revolutions, wars etc. I fully understand the problem Firaxis have faced, but after all, I think most (if not all) people playing CIV can understand that it is a game, and so long no religions is made entirely different from one another, there shouldnt be a problem.
     
  15. Fachy

    Fachy Prince

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    No python mods seem to be comptaible with version 1.52, hmmm
     
  16. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    My idea was to make religion bonuses on civic based. I made new civics. I wanted to add unhappines with non state religion under certain civics but it isn't working with xml moding. So you can add this by python.
    def onCityTurn if current player it has civic Monotheism then non state religion in city causing 2 unhappiness... something like that. I'm working on it right now.
     
  17. Falnax

    Falnax Chieftain

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    I would like to point out that loss of population in cities for religious "purges" is amazingly historically inaccurate; the only time this actually even came close to happening was in the Spanish Inquisition, and even then it was primarilly a matter of Muslims being forced out of Spain for political reasons.

    A good mechanic for loss of religions might be that if you use theocracy and have bad relations with a civ that has a state religion other then your own then every 5 turns the state religion of that civ dissapears from one of your cities, taking with it any affiliated religious buildings. Additionally, if you posses the holy city of the state religion of an enemy civ, then there is a slight chance that the religious buildings of the holy city (including the shrine, if present) will be destroyed; this would give Jewish civilizations the ability to rebuild the Temple of Solomon.

    As for the mass population changes, this could be reflected in an event that triggers whenever a city with the state religion of a civ you have bad relations with encounters cultural pressure from that civ. The effect would be to eliminate the offending religion, all affiliated buildings, and cause about 20-30% of the population of the city to dissapear, meanwhile the rival civ gains population points in their cities equal to the vanished population as refugees migrate to the other civilization, perhaps even getting bonus GP points and military units to represent fleeing soldiers and intellectuals. Additionally, the cities from which the refugees fled could gain a bonus to culture, say, +1000, to represent the cultural reorganization and legendary status of the inquisition, also this lessens the impact of the flight somewhat. Naturally, this is a rather stiff penalty, and if it was implemented the theocracy civic would need to be made stronger, perhaps granting +50% science in the capitol city to represent a central theological colledge and the positive effects of the meritocracy engendered by a theocracy.

    This sort of thing would add a whole new layer of strategy to the theocracy civic, as one must carefully check their relation to their rivals before selecting it.
     

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