Theocracy without any religion

[morchuflex]

Hello.

In my current game, I've found something disturbing: a civilization living under theocracy but without any religion.
When I met Saladdin, I was happy to realize he had no religion yet. Having founded Hinduism, I decided to convert him by sending missionaries. But despite Open borders, I quickly realized I couldn't spread my religion to his cities, because he was using Theocracy. Yet, he had no religion whatsoever.

I didn't know it was even possible. Not to mention that it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense in real world terms. It is also a highly moronic decision since it prevents any religion from spreading to your empire, and there's no reason whatsoever to feel unhappy when a religion comes to you for free. I wonder if he did get the XP bonus for his troops...

 

[Mewtarthio]

You only get bonuses from religious civics in the cities that contain your State Religion (the exception is Free Religion). Having no state religion means that all non-Pagan/Free civics do nothing but raise your mantinence costs.

 

[Yarmoss]

Howver his units DO get the +2 free EXP for the Theocracy civic, dont they?

 

[ybbor]

it's because theoracy is Sal's favorite civic. It's happened to me a few times as well.

 

[Albatoonoe]

As I've said, the religion thing needs to be reworked. The civics for religion are kinda pointless.


Basically, I think they should seperate the the religion and government civics. When you have no state religion, you get a few options, but when you choose any religion, you get more. Like theocracies, tolerance of other religions, etc.

 

[Xanikk999]

Howver his units DO get the +2 free EXP for the Theocracy civic, dont they?

No because he the cities the units are produced from have to have the staten religion. Since he has no religion to begin with he doesnt get the bonus.

 

[thenooblet22]

Isn't being athiest a religon of itself? There's already a large thread on this topic some weeks ago.

 

[Albatoonoe]

Isn't being athiest a religon of itself? There's already a large thread on this topic some weeks ago.

Well, being atheist should be an option as well, but having no state religion is different. It's pretty much free religion.

 

[JaeKayLMNOP]

Beginner question: What is the advantage of spreading your state religion to other civilizations, besides the possibility of a closer alliance with them?

 

[Albatoonoe]

Beginner question: What is the advantage of spreading your state religion to other civilizations, besides the possibility of a closer alliance with them?

The holy city gets more money or something. Nothing that big.

 

[McLMan]

Besides the diplomatic advantage of sharing a religion with an AI, you can also get a financial bonus. By spreading a religion that you have founded to other civilizations you get gold per turn if you have built the shrine for that religion. With a shrine (built by a great prophet) you get gold for every city, foreign and domestic, that has that certain religion in it.

 

[MilesGregarius]

If you found a religion and have it as your state religion you get to see all cities with that religion - free espionage. If you have a shrine, you get 1gpt per city. Spread to enough cities, it can be significant.

 

[Albatoonoe]

If you found a religion and have it as your state religion you get to see all cities with that religion - free espionage. If you have a shrine, you get 1gpt per city. Spread to enough cities, it can be significant.

I wasn't aware of that.

Well, I personally think that's a bit odd. I still think they need to revise the religions.

 

[Mewtarthio]

As I've said, the religion thing needs to be reworked. The civics for religion are kinda pointless.


Basically, I think they should seperate the the religion and government civics. When you have no state religion, you get a few options, but when you choose any religion, you get more. Like theocracies, tolerance of other religions, etc.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The "Religion" Civics have their own category separate from the "Government" Civics. You can have a Theocracy where the pope is chosen through Hereditary Rule or a stae-sponsored Organized Church that a religious majority selects through Universal Suffrage or even a Pacifistic Police State (the fact that this is totally unrealistic is simulated by the fact that it is also totally idiotic). And the religious civics make a pretty big difference in the game: free experience, cheaper building, more great people (but a ridiculously expensive army), and increased happiness and science are all big.

 

[JtheJackal]

The holy city gets more money or something. Nothing that big.

The gold from cities with your religion can be very useful when your not getting gold from anything else. Allows me to put more money to science since the gold from religion is preventing me from going bankrupt.

 

[morchuflex]

Isn't being athiest a religon of itself?

Definitely not. Atheism is the very opposite of religion. Religion is based on belief; atheism on the lack of belief, not on a different belief. The believer's and the atheist's positions are not symmetrical, even though many believers would like you to think so. The non-believer does not believe that God doesn't exist, he just doesn't believe God exists. And this is no pun but a fundamental distinction. The choice isn't between various kinds of faith but between faith and lack of faith. For instance, it's not true that sticking to a scientific conception of the universe is "putting faith into science".

 

[smurfish]

Definitely not. Atheism is the very opposite of religion. Religion is based on belief; atheism on the lack of belief, not on a different belief. The believer's and the atheist's positions are not symmetrical, even though many believers would like you to think so. The non-believer does not believe that God doesn't exist, he just doesn't believe God exists. And this is no pun but a fundamental distinction. The choice isn't between various kinds of faith but between faith and lack of faith. For instance, it's not true that sticking to a scientific conception of the universe is "putting faith into science".

well the aethist still have to believe his disbelief of God's existance else he'll be one confused person

 

[Olleus]

Definitely not. Atheism is the very opposite of religion. Religion is based on belief; atheism on the lack of belief, not on a different belief. The believer's and the atheist's positions are not symmetrical, even though many believers would like you to think so. The non-believer does not believe that God doesn't exist, he just doesn't believe God exists. And this is no pun but a fundamental distinction. The choice isn't between various kinds of faith but between faith and lack of faith. For instance, it's not true that sticking to a scientific conception of the universe is "putting faith into science".

I disagree. Many people think that atheism is saying "I believe that God does not exist". I think of it as "I believe that their is no God". This makes a huge difference, as instead of a lack of belief towards the existance of God, it shows belief in God not existing. I don't see why having faith that their is no God is different to having faith that their is a God.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Well, being atheist should be an option as well, but having no state religion is different. It's pretty much free religion

I agree that aetheism is covered by Free Religion...I see this civic as a "here and now" state of play in the west where you are free to believe what you like...if that is believing there is no God, then so be it. However, aetheism isn't really an issue and shouldn't be included as a civic in its' own right. Name me a civilization or culture that is wholly (or at least mostly) aetheist...

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 99% of the world's population believes in a higher being of some sort, so to include aetheism would be pointless.

 

[JavalTigar]

I think my views on the atheism arquement can be best summed up by these quotes:

"If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color" – Unknown

"Submit that we are both atheist, I simply believe in one fewer god than you. When you can understand why you dismiss all other gods, then you will understand why I dismiss yours. "--Stephen F. Roberts