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There is something seriously wrong with my Barbs!!!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fluxx, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    Ok, I have had this feeling for some time now, but this confirmed to me what I have been suspecting for a couple of weeks now.

    Since that time Barbarians behave almost like its on permanent raging barbarians (which i havent selected), and then even worse.

    Look at this screenshot (Yes I am playing on immortal but this never should happen).

    Spoiler :




    I build worker/warrior.
    BEFORE my first warrior pops, I have 4 archers coming to my borders along Ghandi borders.
    Next turn they will enter my BFC, turn afterwards I loose.

    This is not the 2nd time it happens, barbs spawning sooner then normal, spawning cities at 2600 BC etc.
     
  2. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

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    That looks like a Vedic Aryans uprising. Do you have events turned on?
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    "Huts and events are off by default, although if it bothers you terribly you can add the latter back. I reserve the personal right to point and laugh if the vedic aryans knock on your door though."

    Events aren't balanced. Of all the game options that are on by default, this option is the most ********. They have an impact on the game greater than many viable options that are off by default (such as choose religion). But people like them.

    So I smile a little every time someone loses this way ;). I might just be pointing, too :p.

    If you want events on and just not this event (though it doesn't help event balance much), you can disable it in XML.
     
  4. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    Hmmmja got it on. But isnt there still that rule Barbs cant enter before a certain time-period
     
  5. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    That rule lets the barbs use different scripts. But uprisings start with their own special script.
     
  6. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

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    Uprisings don't follow rules.

    They are coded to head straight to the city, capture and move on. They actually leave any captured city undefended, so you can follow an uprising with a puny warrior and capture the now-vacant cities.

    But you should turn events off in the first place anyway.
     
  7. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    Sigh so far for event that let you loose the game instantly
     
  8. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Also related: did you research Archery and then not train any Archers?
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    This event can easily happen in the time between researching that tech and actually being able to complete one, especially if you're still working on something else and don't want to weaken your opening on the off chance an event occurs.

    Also, since the AI can trigger this event, but the uprising doesn't always target the city that triggered it, a human can still get hit by it w/o having archers at all, even after all these patches.

    Even by the standard of generally imbalanced events, this one is grossly imbalanced, I'm surprised they didn't just pull it entirely.
     
  10. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    For someone who's playing at Immortal + raging barbarians I don't understand your opening moves.
    The most logical path is worker, workboat, the Great Wall.
    So, the first 2 techs are clear Fishing -> Masonry.
    And why not settle Mecca on the riverside hills?
    Instead of whining about a handful of barb archers, you have simply made the wrong decisions.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    1. He isn't playing with raging barbs
    2. Your opening would have lost too. Instantly. Did you bother looking at the year? Show me a pre-3000 BC great wall in human hands, and i'll show you a cheater.

    Unless you think a workboat, worker, and possibly 1-2 warriors can stop 4 barb archers, that is. I guess you made the wrong decisions too since your opening just lost, but at least you're not whining, right?
     
  12. Zeiter

    Zeiter Prince

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    Does this mean, if you had "require complete kills" turned on, then you could just evacuate your city, let the Vedic Aryans rampage through, and then just take the city back with no unit losses after they had moved on? Sure, the city would be a little banged-up, but better than losing the game.
     
  13. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    He was talking about it, maybe Fluxx should check the settings to see if it's really unchecked. ;)
    You are blaming me, because some programmer can't pick the right colours, so the text is clear unreadible?

    Settled on a hill, yes.

    I've the goody huts turned off, so that's probably why I don't have this problem in my games.
     
  14. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    I already stated, I build worker, warrior. And they came BEFORE I finished my first warrior. That warrior you see building is my 2nd warrior after worker/warrior/warrior.

    No I didnt research Archery. I went agri, masonry, fishing.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    Raging barbs is irrelevant to the issue at hand though.

    I agree, I don't know why BUG does this and why players don't disable the color change. If you look carefully you can see it though.

    Settled on a hill, no.

    When I warrior rush AIs below monarch (god it's been so long, but whatever), I use five warriors. They will consistently (well over 1/2 the time) kill 2 fortified hill warriors in a city. Now, we aren't talking about 5 warriors, but rather 4 archers. You're running a substantial risk letting THREE archers hit 2 warriors, but with 4 odds are you just lost your city and the game. Even on a hill.

    This problem is not related to huts, it is related to events, which is why we've been talking about uprisings. The vedic aryan event is the only way you can possibly see 4 archers in one stack at your borders before 3000 BC. Even more fun is that they will enter your borders, ignore all units not immediately in their path, and attack the target city (ai script "lemming").

    Based on your opening, you don't even have bronze working yet. Your starting warrior is still out exploring. Opening work boat and worker, it's quite unlikely you'll have 2 warriors in your city, especially if you intended to use another unit produced to scout some more or get some early spawn/fog busting going. In other words, you'd be quite lucky to have more than 2 warriors defending your capitol, and that means that more than 50% of the time you get this event, you lose.

    Now, one could produce and keep 4 warriors in the capitol at all times, delaying the work boat and/or worker in order to set up the defenses, but I'm sure you can figure out the implications that has on a normal game when the event doesn't occur.

    Also, on huge maps, you get 6 archers rather than 4. I lost an earth 18 as mongolia once that way. 6 archers at 3100 BC, on a beeline for the capitol. Cute.

    No, this even definitely has no place in the game. It's not a matter of whining, it's a matter of game balance.
     
  16. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    @TMIT
    You're right, the early uprising problem isn't hut related, although a hut can spawn a lot of barbarians.

    As I've said before, I can't remember the last time a barb uprising happened that early.
    The 3.17 HoF mod has changed/eliminated the early uprisings and maybe, I'm not sure, the new 3.19 patch has too.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam If A implies B...

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    Yes, HoF pushed the vedic aryan timeline back to requiring a 2nd tech (polytheism IIRC), and also removed many of the most ridiculous early game vents (tower shields, elite swords, etc). IMO many of the events are still broken (hello, global +3 diplo with all AIs or forcing you to declare war on the AI!), but this isn't the thread for that, and I'm somehow in the minority on that issue.
     
  18. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Huh. My read of the Vedic script(s) is that they only pop for targets that have the counter unit for archers (which is anything of UNITCLASS_ARCHER). If you didn't have Archery, then the event must have popped for Gandhi two turns ago, and instead of chasing into Delhi they turned around and lemminged your direction.

    Which ought to be a bug, in addition to TMIT's complaints.
     
  19. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    Ya exactly this is what happened.
    It was just instaloose those barbs started to walk alongst his border and straight went for me.

    I will play with no events from now on too, though they are fun they can be very very annoying or gamebreaking now and then.
     
  20. JTMacc99

    JTMacc99 That's a paddlin'

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    Jeez. Just zoom in, turn on the worldbuilder and delete those guys. No need to turn off all events (if you enjoy them) just to stop the uprising.
     

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