They ALWAYS whine to help them in war!!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by doktarZues, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. doktarZues

    doktarZues Chieftain

    May 10, 2006
    Why is it that EVERY SINGLE TIME one of those lilly cake boy tulip's get into a skirmish, they ask me for help? They don't care if I'm on the other side of the continent. They don't care if I'm at war with 2 civs already. They ask me even if they're -10 furious with me. Usually both of them ask me.

    It wouldn't be that big of a deal if
    • I didn't lose cool points with half of the civs every time I went to war
    • I didn't lose cool points every time I said no
    • They didn't ask me EVERY SINGLE TIME.
    • And my biggest gripe, never have I seen "You refused to help me during wartime" on the relations menu between AI civs. I guess they dont demand help from AIs, they negotiate for it. Same thing goes for adopting their religion or civic.

    I've never been too keen on the fact that it's so much easier for the AI to bully us around, rather than vice versa, but it's doable, it's part of the game. This is ridiculous. I can handle tribute, or the Incan ignoramus wanting me to adopt hereditary rule in the 1900s, or the bimbo from Spain upset with my heathen nation, but lets face facts, if I'm over in my own corner, been doing my own thing for 5000 years, civs on the other sider of the world shouldn't even ask me for help, much less be pissed at me when I say no.

    This can be fixed. Only ask friends for help? Only ask if I'm somewhat NEAR the offending civ? Negotiate the majority of the time instead of demanding it every time? Take into consideration I'm already at war getting my face kicked in? The section of the code the AI looks at when it goes to war and demands help is probably 50 bytes long. Has this topic been covered before? I've spent a long time lurking and reading on here, have read probably the first 4 or 5 pages of this forum, haven't seen anything covering this. Any tips on how you deal with this stuff? Is this irritating to you also? -dok
  2. The Great Apple

    The Great Apple Big Cheese

    Mar 24, 2002
    Oxford, England
    Not true. Ask the AI for something that they often accept. I'm yet to see an AI give me a tech when I asked for it, but I can regularely get money off them when my treasury is low, or get them to declare war against my enemy to act as a distraction.
  3. doktarZues

    doktarZues Chieftain

    May 10, 2006
    The Great Apple, in saying that I more meant along the lines that we play by their rules. They have a strict mathematical formula for wether they like us or not. Even if we can't stand a civ, say they razed one of your cities 100 turns ago, in most cases you will be glad to see them turn into an eventual friend. -dok
  4. StarWorms

    StarWorms Deity

    Dec 1, 2005
    I hate it too. Isabella always hates me and yet she always asks for my help. If one of the AI is at war with her, and I'm friendly with that AI, she'll ask for my help. She'll demand tribute. Why on earth would you ask your worst enemy to help you in a war? Pointlessness. It gets irritating after a while.
  5. picardathon

    picardathon Noobzor

    Dec 27, 2005
    Simple enough. Izzy thinks that she is basically god, so you'll turn around eventually.
    But the best part of when Huanya Capac asks you to convert to Hereditary is when you're leader and you say no.
    "I guess you know best"
    Cracks me up every single time.
  6. Ballisto

    Ballisto Chieftain

    Apr 17, 2006
    I've gotten AI friends to give me cheap techs, resources (even strategic ones like copper), convert, and go to war.


    The AI is dumb. It needs handicaps like this to survive. You have to figure out which costs more: the war or the bad diplo. Here are a few random diplo tips:
    • Look up triangle diplomacy on the forums
    • Same religion is important
    • You can get a nice "You have provided us with resources" bonus for trading them resources for GPT
    • Never make friends with Isabella. She backstabs. So do Monty, Alex, Tokugawa (there are several crazy AI's to look out for)
  7. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

    Nov 7, 2003
    I think this is exactly the complaint in the original post. Civ series has been on the market for how many years, selling how many copies? It's the 4th edition, yet they fail to give the so-called "AIs" some tolerable intelligence. In fact, what most people want to see is not true AI, which is hard to program, but some reasonable behaviors guided by well thought out coding and parameters.

    It's not just diplomacy, although it is basically the worst part of the game. The war component of these "AIs" can be very unrealistic. Why would somebody in ancient era located far far away cross 2 or even 3 borders to engage in an expensive war (and the lands their armies go thru may not even be their friends)? Why does an AI park 8 longbows in their capital watching their border cities getting taken one by one? I'm no computer specialist, but I still believe that by properly introducing some parameters, things like these can be improved.
  8. boneys26

    boneys26 BTS Play session tester

    Nov 24, 2005
    Coventry, England
    I can't even get the AI to change maps with mine without costing me 10 extra gold but i like it this way cuz when you finish the game you know you done it without the AI's help ;)
  9. Desert-Fox

    Desert-Fox King

    Jun 4, 2005
    Estonia, Laagri
    For me it is also strange... that civ X from other side map declares war on me and just sends te pathetic troops on me... and after I kill them all I get peace with some gc. Sometimes it seems that AI plays in multi hands... with one he kicks your ass and with another he will win the space race... If you survive you win:)
  10. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

    Oct 26, 2005
    Kansas City, MO
    I so feel your pain dok. As do many others as this topic has been discussed a few times already on this board. The sad part is, I HIGHLY doubt warlords will even touch this. I hold out hope they may address it in the following expansion personally. But only time will tell.

    I started a very similar thread on it myself a while back. :sad:

    I thought ->this<- was a good idea suggested in the thread myself. Any modders know how to make this little modification by chance?

    Basically, Monty asks you to declare war on Cyrus and you say no.

    Cyrus: +1 "You stood up for us"
    Monty: -1 "You refused to help us"
  11. kjaye

    kjaye Chieftain

    May 25, 2006

    I've had Hatty give me a tech on my current game, when I asked if she could spare it for a good friend.

    I've also had Asoka bullying me for tribute a few times. He demanded 230 gold from me or else he said we were at war, I refused and immediately demanded tribute from him in return and the lilly livered weasel handed me over all his money!

    Since then I've been regularly demanding cash from him every few turns or so, pus%y :cool:
  12. wiseguy101

    wiseguy101 Warlord

    May 5, 2006
    Right behind you.....
    I also don't like it when this happens. What I don't like is that the diplomatic penalty is so harsh when you refuse to help out someone during wartime. I know that there are mods where that diplomatic penalty disappears over time, but I'd like to see that idea implemented in vanilla civ.
  13. Xenophonos

    Xenophonos Chieftain

    Nov 25, 2005
    Queens, NY
    The trick with getting what you want from the AI civs is to be high on the Power chart.

    Lately, I've been building very powerful armies. As a result, I find that I can get techs every so often from the 1 or 2 other civs that I'm friends with. Even from the occassional indifferent or even enemy Civs. Give it try.

    (Note that I play on Noble, as I don't find it fun for the AI to have handicaps on higher levels)
  14. The Keeper

    The Keeper Warlord

    Apr 10, 2006
    Jackson TN
    Ever had a friendly civ just walk up to you and offer you a tech out of the blue?

    I have. Shrewd diplomacy can get you far.

    But a sword/mace/gun/rifle/tank will get you farther.
  15. Naismith

    Naismith Prince

    Feb 27, 2006
    There are so many good things that result from being high (preferably #1) on the power chart (Demographics, Soldiers). The demands for tribute don't come as often. Many if not most Civ's won't even consider declaring war on you under any circumstances. This gives you a great deal of flexibility. Concerned that the Civ you want to conquer has friends? It's not very likely they are going to join the war. Worried that adopting a state religion will get you diplo penalties? Who cares? With the #1 ranking in power, especially if you have, say, a 20% lead, you can piss off every Civ on the map if you like, and probably get away with it. It's kind of fun, actually. It's still advisable to have a couple of good friends, of course...

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