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They gotta fix cultural victories

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Mad Hab, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. Anomaly

    Anomaly Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    36
    I'm not sure were you went wrong. In my first game I won a cultural victory with Alexander in the 1960ies. Had 4 cities and 3 puppets. Was pumping about 650 culture per turn. It's important to get all the -33% culture cost wonders and civics. I also allied all the cultural city states (about 4 I think) which were contributing 20 culture each. However I really concentrated on culture at the end, build all cultural improvements and had all culture specialists activated.
     
  2. Celevin

    Celevin King

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
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    919
    I am expecting a Cultural victory by 1000 AD, before the Industrial Age. I'll let you guys know if I succeed.

    Currently I've got ~3 policy trees near full at 300 AD.
     
  3. Mad Hab

    Mad Hab Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Well, thanks, but... you (and many others) seem to miss the point. I know how to get a cultural victory. My game was flawless except for the fact I had too many cities.

    My basic argument is:

    1) I don't like the fact that you must be small to win cultural. If I have 20+ cities and all of them have monuments+temples+operas+museums+broadcast towers, I am already paying the price (in gold maintenance, plus the things I didn't produce in that time) - I should be able to get a cultural win!

    2) I also don't like the fact that, if you are small, cultural is the only way to go (well, maybe you can go diplo too, as long as you are rich. But forget about scientific...).

    3) I think that a victory condition that must be decided before the Middle Ages to work is poor implemented.

    In the game I played, each city added en extra 30% cost to each Social Policy...

    Best regards,

    Mad Hab
     
  4. DrakenKin

    DrakenKin Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
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    461
    Location:
    Montreal
    Either I am mistaken on the number, or it varies with settings. My last game was huge map + king + standard speed, so maybe the malus is lower on larger maps.
     
  5. guinsoo

    guinsoo Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Ah, phooey. *Looks at 15-city empire trying to go for culture victory* time to start over, sigh. I was wondering why it was so slow.
     
  6. Gunship_Down

    Gunship_Down Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    I won a cultural victory on Prince, Large map, normal time, with the French. It's quite easy to do, as long as you keep your tech up, build the wonders and buildings, and befriend the Cultural city states. I had 7 cities in total.

    By the end there were only 3 AI left, with the Japanese basically owning half the world. Never had a single war with them, always on friendly terms.
     
  7. superdudeman

    superdudeman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO the advisor didn't warn me!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!! I didn't read the instructions before playing! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

    It's so unfair!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!

    Moderator Action: Infraction - Trolling
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  8. ohioastronomy

    ohioastronomy King

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
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    714
    Come off it. In past games it was slower with larger empires, not almost impossible. I did a 6-city win for the HoF in 1914, but that was at the edge of what was possible (compared with 1700 for a 1-2-3 city strat). The 30% penalty in Civ 5 is too great - yet another balance problem with the release.
     
  9. The Leviathan

    The Leviathan Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
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    Location:
    Massachusetts, US
    I believe they need to lower how much the policies cost per city.

    I understand that they're trying to make it a little harder for huge empires but as it stands now you have to specifically play with only 5 (or lower) cities and play super defensively to win a culture victory and that's lame as hell.

    Not to mention that's it's probably the most time consuming way to get victory.
     
  10. Sock Bramson

    Sock Bramson Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
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    96
    Quick update on my 14 city cultural victory escapades:
    It's 1950 and it's starting to look like going for a cultural win won't be in the cards. My prediction is that I'll get very close, though, probably a good ways into the 5th tree before the game ends. I'll be ready to start my fourth tree in about 20 turns or so. In the meantime, I'm producing over 200 culture per turn (220 or something like that), not including the boost I'll get from finishing museums I have building in almost all of my cities atm. Hopefully I'll be able to pull it off at the last minute, but we'll have to see.

    Judging by how it's been going, I think it would be perfectly possible to get a cultural victory with 10 or so cities; it's just not gonna be easy.
     
  11. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    The Milky Way Galaxy
    My guess is that most of of testing didn't involve going for cultural victories. The things that hurt going for cultural the most are the lack of Religion (no more Cathedrals for +50% output), changes to Great Artists(no great works of art to get 1000s in culture) and no culture slider to boost it's output later in the game.

    This game's release was rushed. It's still in early beta really.

    Making good games is hard and takes a lot of time.
     
  12. _hero_

    _hero_ King

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
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    795
    I think what should be done to fix it is simple and will solve another issue as well. Make great artists valuable. My idea is to give them a "cultural golden age" type ability that doubles (Or triples hopefully) the culture per turn of your cities. The other option is to give a certain amount of culture towards your SPs the way great merchants give a certain amount of gold. This would have to scale upward over time though. The final option, which would be way overpowered IMO is to be able to consume it for a free SP the way a scientist can be consumed.

    This sounds like something that can be modded. I'm not much of a modder myself but I think someone who is should do a mod that takes care of great artists.
     
  13. Hitman Zeus

    Hitman Zeus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
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    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    I just tried a Culture Victory on Prince, with France. It is hard, since to the north is the remains of Egypt after being crushed by Germany and Rome. So after Egypt only had Thebes left, Bismarck looked at my small empire with only 2 cities.

    Wave after wave of German Landsknechts got crushed by my city of Orleans, so they even tried to land units behind me. Paris was covered with two Citadels, witch have proven fairly useful against the might of Rome, when they suddenly invaded. Only pikemen in the citadels but still covered the ways into the Capital. It should be said that I do have Oligarchy and the Himeji Castle so that's 57% bonus in strength. But it was to much and to many waves of musketman.

    I honestly have to say that it is hard to do, and the idea placement of your nation is in a peninsula or a place like Australia (if you are playing on the Earth map), otherwise I can't see how to do it.
     
  14. rune42

    rune42 Chieftain

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    Completely false.
    I had 3 cities the entire time as the Aztecs and won a science victory on King.
     
  15. teejing

    teejing Chieftain

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    Sep 28, 2010
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    copy pasted :

    Just thought of a raher experimental idea. Since Cultural Victory represents the opposite of the warmongering one, if would be better to kink the culture penalty to war instead of the amount of cities.
    Just because an empire is big does not have to mean it is not a cultural one, unlike a war-loving empire.
    Since it would be unfair to link the culture penalty to war, since it possibly was not us who declared war, we instead link the penalty to military units. This also creates an easy to balance scenario > The less military you have the more culture you get, but the more vulnerable you are to war.
     
  16. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    The fact that it's different doesn't mean it was rushed. Civ3 had cultural victory with none of those options (leaving aside how horribly cheesy the culture slider for victory was).
     
  17. Mad Hab

    Mad Hab Warlord

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    Well, congrats! In my experience, while you are busy developing a small empire, one AI is conquering all others AIs. And the remaining, giant AI is always ahead on science.

    But sending the spaceship also requires a strong industry, and the AI seem to suck at that. So I can see your point - you can be beaten on the tech side, but still win it because of the production side...

    Cheers,

    Mad Hab
     
  18. Anomaly

    Anomaly Chieftain

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    Yeah, I'm not a fan of this either. In Civ V you pretty much have to plan right from the start for which victory you want to go, and play accordingly. Its very emphasized on specialization.
     
  19. Lancor

    Lancor Prince

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    Jun 9, 2010
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    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    mhh, I got a cultural victory with Germany on prince, standard map size, continents and owning 12 cities. Somewhere around 1980...

    What really helped was, that my UA granted me a small army really early on, captured 3 city states with it to make them puppets. and postponed military techs a little, so they didn't build many walls/barracks buildings. Then I got lucky with a few wonders and the science/culture/money they gave me, was enough to get on top with the science race. So every wonder was mine at around medieval age, because the other civs did not have the tech to build them.

    Getting a cultural victory really depends not as much on your city count, but as on how lucky you get with world wonders.
    And... you don't have to plan ahead, as emphasizing on science and culture makes late game diplomacy/conquer valuable too, if you change your mind. I don't get how this was different before? :x
     
  20. JonoLith

    JonoLith Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
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    Hey Mad Hab,

    I enjoyed listening your story. It reminds me alot of the exact same thing I did the first time I tried to go cultural. I just remade the game and won that way! Hope that helps! Have fun!
     

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