They need to change the tech tree and civic tree

[pietro1990]

Its way to easy to go from another era to another era. I noticed when I use the mod real tech tree the AI starts to upgrade their units wich I found interesting. It seems the AI just goes straight to chemistry and ignores any other unit tech.

Especially with the new golden ages and dark ages and era scores they need to make sure that players don’t go to fast to a other era. The best solution for this is to make sure like in the mod real tech tree you need a certain amount of techs to go another era.

In the mod real tech tree they changed the civic and tech tree so that the AI doesn't go straight to one era or goes straight to chemistry so you don't see modern anti tank units(bazooka's) and medieval era crosbowman Ai actually upgrades their units effectively.


Is there any information about that they changed the tech tree in new expansion pack rise and fall or is it still the same ?

Because when i was using this mod the Ai suddenly became much stronger and harder. because i was fighting modern era untis with modern era units

 

[Disgustipated]

tech tree (branches) are still the same from what I seen. Naval Tradition and more importantly, military tactics are still dead in techs.

And yes Real tech tree mod is great, only played one game with it so far, but I'm impressed.

And it's not just chemistry which they beeline, they also beeline the naval techs towards ironclads really early. Especially England.

I will most likely be using this mod for R & F as soon as its available. It does make the first half of the game significantly harder.

 

[pietro1990]

tech tree (branches) are still the same from what I seen. Naval Tradition and more importantly, military tactics are still dead in techs.

And yes Real tech tree mod is great, only played one game with it so far, but I'm impressed.

And it's not just chemistry which they beeline, they also beeline the naval techs towards ironclads really early. Especially England.

Advancing to fast in the era's also breaks the warmonger penalties. Because the Ai might allready be in renaissance era when you want to declare war. Same goes for great people they need to rebalance that really fast I hope the mod real tech tree will work with rise and fall if not the expansion will have simular problems then the base game

 

[Elhoim]

The good thing in this XP is that eras are now shared by all Civs, as "The World" advances an era. From what it seems, the change happens 10 turns after a Civ researches a tech from the following era, plus the change is informed. The only thing that is not known is what happens if you get the navigation tech that skips the medieval era...

 

[Trengilly]

The fact that they appear to have made NO alterations to the tech and civic trees seems to indicate that they felt they are making enough changes to the game and are saving tech/civic tree alterations for the next expansion. I'm assuming they already have a pretty good idea what they want to do in the second expansion.

I can't believe they think they are perfect the way they are.

 

[pietro1990]

The good thing in this XP is that eras are now shared by all Civs, as "The World" advances an era. From what it seems, the change happens 10 turns after a Civ researches a tech from the following era, plus the change is informed. The only thing that is not known is what happens if you get the navigation tech that skips the medieval era...

It still creates problem's especially with the AI especially with upgrade path. Sometimes the Ai still have renaissance and medieval era units in the industrial era. because they ignore certain techs.

Having corpses and armies of AT crew(bazooka's) and crosbowman is just really wierd

even if the era score's are balanced the Ai tech path still needs to change.

Thats my problem. it seems like the tech tree places is a problem but also the position of units in the tech tree and upgrade paths is a major problem. In civ 5 they made the AI actually pretty good they go straight to civil service for pikeman and if they have iron they go for swordsman and longswordsman. some A with high flavor towards mountain units built knights a lot and horseman and then go to cavalry.

I've never seen a medieval era unit in the industrial era AI allways upgrade's their units or remove outdated one's like the warrior.

Civ 5 tech was pretty good balanced and the Ai knew what to tech regardless their flavor but didn't ignore military. Maybe their military had different units more mounted or more range but it was still updated

 

[Arent11]

Its way to easy to go from another era to another era. I noticed when I use the mod real tech tree the AI starts to upgrade their units wich I found interesting. It seems the AI just goes straight to chemistry and ignores any other unit tech.

Especially with the new golden ages and dark ages and era scores they need to make sure that players don’t go to fast to a other era. The best solution for this is to make sure like in the mod real tech tree you need a certain amount of techs to go another era.

In the mod real tech tree they changed the civic and tech tree so that the AI doesn't go straight to one era or goes straight to chemistry so you don't see modern anti tank units(bazooka's) and medieval era crosbowman Ai actually upgrades their units effectively.


Is there any information about that they changed the tech tree in new expansion pack rise and fall or is it still the same ?

Because when i was using this mod the Ai suddenly became much stronger and harder. because i was fighting modern era untis with modern era units

There are several problems here:

(1) The separation of tech & civic tree results in "too few techs" per era, which makes it sometimes hard to prevent beelining into the next era
(2) There are not always units of all types in all eras, which results in certain unit types being outdated/weak while other types are very strong
(3) There are some glaring beelines, for example animal husbandry -> archery -> horseback riding -> stirrups, which basically propels you from ancient times to middle ages in a few steps. I would make apprenticeship a prerequisite of stirrups & remove archery as prerequisite of horseback riding.

 

[valerislysander]

This tech bee-lining has been an issue for me for many reasons. Civs bee-lining especially on higher difficulties makes the map full of a mixture of units from different eras which always broke the immersion for me or you as a player could beeline to a far away tech making it easier for you to get the better units. Although recently I haven't seen this issue as much maybe since the fall patch it seems to have improved some what. I did use the 8 ages mods for a while though and they did improve things a lot! They also increased growth in cities as near the end of games I'd still see so much of the world empty. Again I cant remember could you and AI beeline to techs in Civ V? I never remember this being as big an issue in Civ V. Anyway either they improve it through the current mechanics or somehow limit things like with the Real Tech mods otherwise we have to rely on these mods which is fine but obviously they get broken on each release which is frustrating!

 

[UWHabs]

The fact that they appear to have made NO alterations to the tech and civic trees seems to indicate that they felt they are making enough changes to the game and are saving tech/civic tree alterations for the next expansion. I'm assuming they already have a pretty good idea what they want to do in the second expansion.

I can't believe they think they are perfect the way they are.

I doubt they think it's perfect. It's most likely a case that they wanted to get all those other features in, and then at the end (or maybe for the first post-release patch) they can come back and revisit the tech links. At least, that's what I hope their thinking is.

They definitely do need to do some changes. The fact that you can pretty damn far on the top branch while not even having researched mining is crazy. I was playing last night, and started teching for shipyards when I noticed that I hadn't built a lumbermill for the eureka yet. Then I realized that I haven't even researched the tech for it, and it makes you think.

 

[Bosque]

It seems to me that a simple fix would be to prohibit acquiring a tech in a new era, until you had completed ALL of the techs from two eras before. So you could not learn a medieval tech until you had completed all of the ancient techs. You could not learn a renaissance tech until you had completed all of the classical techs.

You could still beeline into the next era, but not two eras ahead. An easy fix that would eliminate racing through eras so fast.

 

[valerislysander]

It seems to me that a simple fix would be to prohibit acquiring a tech in a new era, until you had completed ALL of the techs from two eras before. So you could not learn a medieval tech until you had completed all of the ancient techs. You could not learn a renaissance tech until you had completed all of the classical techs.

You could still beeline into the next era, but not two eras ahead. An easy fix that would eliminate racing through eras so fast.

This makes such good sense. You can still do a little bee-lining if there is something you are eager to get to one era ahead but you cannot go any further until you have caught up

 

[Thibaulthc]

Prohibit entering a new era before having researched all the techs from two eras before is a nice idea.
In r&f, the eras are the same for the whole world. So they really will have to re think the trees.
In the meantime, Real tech tree or Mad's tech trees are a must have.

But... Do actually Firaxis' staff sometimes read those forums?!?

 

[pietro1990]

Prohibit entering a new era before having researched all the techs from two eras before is a nice idea.
In r&f, the eras are the same for the whole world. So they really will have to re think the trees.
In the meantime, Real tech tree or Mad's tech trees are a must have.

But... Do actually Firaxis' staff sometimes read those forums?!?

Glad i am not the only one with this idea . You can only advance through the classical era if you researched all ancient era technologies and same goes for the medieval era if you researched all classical era technologies.

It still a strategic decision wich tech you would choose first. You have to research them all to progress next era but its more of a priority system wich one do i need first. Wich makes more sence

 

[Disgustipated]

I believe the mod does just that, although I'm not sure.

Another thing I liked about that mod was when looking at the civics and tech tree at the last turn of the game like I usually do, I can now finally see myself firmly in the lead on both trees (I was only playing Prince). Where as before sometimes it would show the AI even with me on that bar graph on the bottom even though I know they aren't even with me in tech, and probably only have 1 or 2 techs researched in the information age and are missing many techs or civics.

 

[UWHabs]

Glad i am not the only one with this idea . You can only advance through the classical era if you researched all ancient era technologies and same goes for the medieval era if you researched all classical era technologies.

It still a strategic decision wich tech you would choose first. You have to research them all to progress next era but its more of a priority system wich one do i need first. Wich makes more sence

Whether it's done by a game mechanism or by a just adding enough links and connections that that's effectively the case, it makes sense. Certain limited beelines are nice, but it can get out of hand.

I think the Civics tree does a good job of this. Basically, while you can get an era ahead or so, there's a few choke points that always force you back to reality. The only think they really need to do to that tree is add a couple new civics or links to the top culture/conservation branch. I also kind of wouldn't mind if they actually forced you to research all 3 of the final tier civics before proceeding to the space race/final branch, although there's enough strong policies and governments there that it's worth the detour even if you aren't forced to.