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Things that bug you in Civ4

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by SamSniped, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    You might want to look up the definition of "abstract".
     
  2. G-Max

    G-Max Deity

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    Why? It has nothing to do with the ability to see things.
     
  3. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    And that is why you didn't get what I said earlier.
     
  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Lacking intelligence of the AIs.

    If they would play smarter, they wouldn't have to get such ridiculus handicaps to be challenging.
     
  5. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    To be fair, it is fairly difficult to have an AI that is the equal of human intellect, particularly when we are talking about collective intellect as can be found here. The AI is challenging for many, until they read one ofthose articles here and suddenly, they jump a couple of difficulty levels.

    How many can say that they beat Deity on a regular basis without having read even one of the articles here?
     
  6. uat2d

    uat2d ಠ_ಠ

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    They're AIs, nuff said.

    If you want a fair challenge, you need to play against someone who isn't limited by a script.
     
  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I know it is difficult. I am just pointing out what bugs me in civ4.
     
  8. Pisskop

    Pisskop Goblin Axeman

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    Hidden Diplo-points. Mostly this is between two ai civs. Ghandi and Monty will never like one another, barring religion or shared war. They recieve a penalty from the get.

    Likewise, two peacemongers will be predisposed to like one another; as will two warmongers. I hate to see civs friendly at +4. Tone it down or at least make it visible to me. If the ai would recognize a pre-war formation (say me stacking outside their borders) that would be nice too.

    If you could make it so that at the very least a human player could ask for free stuff or war (like the AI... not demanding, but asking). I want to mooch too.
     
  9. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    The AIs ability to see further. It's not fair. It's 'because humans can see what direction a stack is facing', but this rarely comes in handy.
     
  10. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    You're implying that there is a layer of the game only visible... to the people of your Civilization? This is a fictitious level of abstraction.
     
  11. Pisskop

    Pisskop Goblin Axeman

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    When you 'see' a patch of land w/o resouces, then you can infer that something is there.

    You know that if you start as, say persia or mongolia, then horses are within a certain radius of you. You know that oil is in the desert, ocean, and snow. You have prior knowledge, and while you may not be able to pinpoint resources before they are revealed, you know where they tend to be.

    Requiring techs to be researched to reveal resources is fine. You saw the horses, but you did not know they had use. Why would you pay any attention to them? The copper was metal, but you had no real use for it. Why would it be revealed? Should ciIV show you where Lead is? What use would it be? It would be frivolous.

    Should uranium be revealed? aluminum? 50 years ago, silicon had limited use. To make a map of where silicon was would be frivolous and wasteful, back then.
     
  12. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    You are making things more complicated than they need to be, you can't see what isn't there. Even inference doesn't always isolate a specific tile where you can be certain a resource is hiding.

    But meanwhile your scientists DID pay attention to them, and spent decades mastering their use?

    Civilization Revolution displays all resources from the start, including late game metals. It proves useful for city planning, without being distracting or 'frivolous'.
     
  13. Pisskop

    Pisskop Goblin Axeman

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    So we should put in everything that makes humanity human? Wars over women, genocide, mental illness, rape, assasainations, cannibalism, fraud, and drugs?
    -While the random events would certainly be spiced up some (cocaine in your water supply=city revolt!) these are not pragmatic or even appropiate to put into the game.
    We do not even know what makes homo sapian unique. I suggest that you, my friend are asking to make the game too complex. Trying to integrate all these features into a game and still keep it balanced, easy to use and profitable is too time consuming.

    You must realize that horses are not horses, they are symbols that represent a useful resource. This game is quite abstract, and a bit of imagination is required to make the odds connect.

    Have you ever learned how to use something that was right in front of you? suddenly you pay attention to it.
    Before you learned what wine was, it was just a bottle of liquid. Then you learned its nature. Now you pay special attention to it. I know a thing or two about bones. A tibia and humerus look alike to one who does not know the difference., but I can tell them apart.

    Practical knowledge of an item makes it stand out. You cannot see what you do not know or are not looking for. As I implied before, should every ape, every spider, every silkworm, every goat be a resouorce on a game so large in scale as civ?

    ---
    As a human with prior knowledge of the use of items, the revealing system is a way to keep the game more realistic. Think Dungons and Dragons. You know prior knowledge that affects the outcome of an event, so it is asked you do your best to stifle such (which is kind of like cheating). You are asking to be given an unrealistic advantage to your play. while it is easier to let everything be seen it is not logical. Taking the easy and convenient path is often the road to ruin.
     
  14. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    Oh please.
     
  15. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    That would go against everything "Artificial Idiots" stands for lol.

    While I agree that the AI is an issue, I have no other forms or reference to compare it to in this context. What I mean is that aside from other Civ games, I don't think I have seen another AI in a turnbased game.

    Anyone know of a game like civ that has a solid AI? You could even expand the list of games to Real Time Strategy games if you wanted, but in my experience, most AI's rely on bonuses and not "skill" to beat the human.
     
  16. Pisskop

    Pisskop Goblin Axeman

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    Anywho... if you cannot grasp the concept, I will not break it down much farther.
    ---

    Have you ever played the Civ board game? Fun as ever!

    Put in concepts like superstition and expand UB/UA/UU.
     
  17. geowzrd

    geowzrd Warlord

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    The fact that railroads give you the knowledge of how to build machine guns irks me, along with the fact that colosseums usually don't produce culture, along with no religious divides such as Suni/Shia, Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant found in our world. Plus I miss the "railroads take you anywhere instantly" idea from Civ 3.
     
  18. G-Max

    G-Max Deity

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    Because they're literally made of food and clothing. Duh. Maybe I can find a use for their bones, too.

    The copper lumps are shiny and a different color from the other rocks. I like to collect them. People are even willing to trade their food for my copper lumps!

    With Chemistry.


    Dude, what the holy fart are you talking about? Did someone put cocaine in your water supply?

    Better than Railroad -> Darwin's Voyage like in Civ II :lol:

    It was also in Civ I and II.
     
  19. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    Oh dear, I lol'd way too hard. :lol:
     
  20. Pisskop

    Pisskop Goblin Axeman

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    So, you want to put in the intuition of a single individual into a game? That is what GP are for. Horses as clothing was common before their domestication, but so was flinging your poop. I will explain it as simply as I can.

    In this game:
    -You are a real-world human, who exists outside of space and time (like God, if you will)
    -You, unlike God, can only control one specific group of individuals. You are engaged in a competition.
    -You have prior knowledge of the functions of certain resources.
    -Your people are generic, and they possess no special powers. Nobody suddenly collects horses. The 'uniqueness' of random events attempts to provide flavor and flux to your empire.
    -Since they are not magic, they would not know what you know
    -Before your 'people's' knowledge of certain things, they just did not have the capacity to use said resource as it is used within the confines of the game. You want an edge, an unfair advantage in the game.

    i.e: Copper may have been and was collected, and even traded, but in a decentralized way. Your gov never saw the profit or any benefits.

    i.e: Horses may have been used as food and such, but the game lacks the capacity to reflect that. A horse would be no diifferent than a cow, or deer, or moose, or goats, or a cheetah. Therefore it is not revealed. What you learned in history class cannot apply here, since this is a game, made for profit and designed to specifically not be 'realistic'.

    You play games to escape reality, not submerge yourself in it. I love realism in games as well, but I pick my battles better. You want to know where horses and metal is, go to the world-builder. Maybe add some into your borders since you seem so stuck on such a small design piece. Not even a flaw, as it was clearly intentionly put in.
     

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